Unlimited access >

2008: Hong Kong or...Aachen!

I do not think anyone is ‘ranting’.
I have great respect for the Hong Kong Jockey Club and the technological research and advances made in the horse world due to the research promoted by thoroughbred racehorse interests there as well as in Japan…

And I remember the worry, in 1984, that smog and congestion would ruin the horse portion of the Olympics held at Santa Anita Racetrack.

All that said, there is little doubt in my mind that CHINA, aka ‘Beijing’ has little or no interest in the equestrian portion of the Olympics they will be hosting, and that even in Hong Kong, there was a fair lot of dissension.

Naturally–as there are no races in July, at least in part because of the weather, etc. Although I recognize that would normally be the time to refurbish the tracks, surface, grandstands, etc.

I guess we shall just have to see what happens.

???

Is racing a part of the Equestrian Olympics ?

[quot

Yes and even better is Aachen, Arheim, Saumur, Hickstead, or Spruce Meadows.

And yes I have a point ! Since horse-races are not part of the Olympic calendar. I know that they have many racing tracks out there, but that’s not enough, and yes I know they have hired several people to get the job done (even a Shaman from Australia to control the weather)

But it’s obvious that you haven’t been inside the Olympics, because the major problem for the EQ-riders is the fact that they have been banned from the main-event.

But as Oakie said, just let’s wait and see.

Theo

.

?

[QUOTE=Albion;1854427]
Thank you, Drumbiggle.

Sabine, I must have forgotten that Western cities don’t have congestion, smog, high rises, or anything like that (I find it more disgusting to fly into LA - where you can descend right through that lovely smog cloud! - than either Taipei or Shanghai. And Shanghai has HORRIBLE air quality). Guess I was imagining all that in Paris, Milan, London, New York, Los Angeles, DC …

The weather is hardly “unknown,” and “pests and diseases” are not unknown either. Frankly, if people with VERY EXPENSIVE race horses are willing to ship them to HK (where the history of racing and horses in a “Western sense” is NOT NEW), that’s good enough for me. Besides, isn’t all this ranting caused by the fact that they PUT the horse sports in HK? Would you rather they be in Beijing where they DON’T have a horse culture like they do in HK? Would we like a repeat of Athens?

As far as it being “very far away,” it’s closer than Australia. I KNOW how long the plane flight is, as I’ve made it several times. Transpacific flights (or flights coming from Europe) are hardly my favorite thing in the world, but not exactly an insurmountable obstacle.

Oh, and by the way, one quickly discovers that while Asian cities are not stuffed with green at every turn like many Western cities, they LOVE their parks and open spaces and have beautiful public parks that put most things in the West to shame. To say nothing of the race courses/complex in HK, which is what I assume you were referring to.[/QUOTE]

All the power to you Albion- but frankly I despise horse racing…I find it highly on the border of what is acceptable if you are really a horse lover…so frankly I don’t CARE a bit if all the super rich ship their race horses to HongKong- it just corroborates the issue- it’s not for horses it’s for money making folks…
also if you can point me to a nice suburb of HongKong that has nice fields and acreage to put on a nice competition for dressage - I am all for it…as I said before - I would love to visit HongKong some time in the future- but it’s geography as far as I am informed does not seem to lend itself naturally for a easy going, horse friendly competition…that’s all…I am talking strictly about dressage- this is all I refer to and frankly that’s all I am interested in…:slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;1854655]
Do you have a point?

I’m all for the moving of the Equestrian disciplines. Wouldn’t bother me one bit if they were dropped from the OG. A biennial WEG would be great and can be held where the horses, riders and fans actually are. I’ve said as much before.

However, I was responding to Sabine, who said… "HK… is a very far away place with absolutely NO PROVEN HISTORY of hosting anything horsey"

That is an incredibly misinformed statement. HK has a fine history hosting some of the most expensive horseflesh on the planet. If the equestrian games have to be held in China, then HK is a better place than Beijing[/QUOTE]

Drum or bIggl or whatever your name…the only thing you can point out are horseraces…it is a hot bed of the super wealthy that BUY horseflesh as you so nicely referred to - and burn it on the track- collect the dough and move on - it’s everything we all despise- if you haven’t figured that out yet…!!
You are talking to dressage folks here- we happen to invest between 12 to 15 years into our horses- and we happen to not like to risk their health over one competition in a place where there is little assurance that the similar care that is needed to assure safety and well being can be provided- which means we’ll have to bring in everything- vets, equipment-and don’t tell me the race horses are treated the same as the dressage horses…NO!! not right on that one…it’s all about the investment you have in the horse and the ability to provide safe solutions when needed. Sadly- most dressage horses that compete on the international level can possibly still be outpriced by some of those racehorses that your superwealthy HongKong friends ship in…it is however an amazingly different world- and I am shocked that you can not recognize that…:)?!

[QUOTE=Sabine;1855446]
All the power to you Albion- but frankly I despise horse racing…I find it highly on the border of what is acceptable if you are really a horse lover…so frankly I don’t CARE a bit if all the super rich ship their race horses to HongKong- it just corroborates the issue- it’s not for horses it’s for money making folks…
also if you can point me to a nice suburb of HongKong that has nice fields and acreage to put on a nice competition for dressage - I am all for it…as I said before - I would love to visit HongKong some time in the future- but it’s geography as far as I am informed does not seem to lend itself naturally for a easy going, horse friendly competition…that’s all…I am talking strictly about dressage- this is all I refer to and frankly that’s all I am interested in…:)[/QUOTE]

Since when is dressage held on nice fields? Last time I checked, dressage takes place in rings, and if it came to it, a dressage ring would probably fit nicely in the infield of a race track. FYI here’s a link to the olympic site showing the proposed location both for the riding stadium as well as the cross country course. http://en.beijing2008.com/27/79/article211987927.shtml

With regards to your other post, most national federations already travel with their own team vets for events such as the olympic games. Being such a large racing center, I am sure there is ample equipment for them to use, probably more so than in Athens, which is not as active of an equestrian area.

Personally I don’t care whether the equestrian events take place in Hong Kong or Aachen, or anywhere else. But to say Hong Kong is not qualified and totally ignore both the plans created and the history of horses in Hong Kong does not help your point.

but…

I thought this was the WEG forum, not the dressage forum!!!
Boy, some ethnically insensitive comments in these most recent posts…

Frankly; you physically remove the equestrian sports from the rest of the Olympic sports once, and well, I suspect that will be the last time they are seen as an equestrian sport.

[QUOTE=Jumper221;1855475]
Since when is dressage held on nice fields? Last time I checked, dressage takes place in rings, and if it came to it, a dressage ring would probably fit nicely in the infield of a race track. FYI here’s a link to the olympic site showing the proposed location both for the riding stadium as well as the cross country course. http://en.beijing2008.com/27/79/article211987927.shtml

With regards to your other post, most national federations already travel with their own team vets for events such as the olympic games. Being such a large racing center, I am sure there is ample equipment for them to use, probably more so than in Athens, which is not as active of an equestrian area.

Personally I don’t care whether the equestrian events take place in Hong Kong or Aachen, or anywhere else. But to say Hong Kong is not qualified and totally ignore both the plans created and the history of horses in Hong Kong does not help your point.[/QUOTE]

You are correct - but is Hongkong really interested to accomodate to the level required?? Since it is a far away place- the level of willingness should exceed the level of challenge and risk …:slight_smile:

there are a lot of challenges and it is maybe not fair to small countries/cities like HongKong to host such a large event- it actually might economically exceed the capacity of what they can provide…but at the same time it seems like a point that the Olympic committe wants to make - to express the worldwide validity of the games- and deservedly so…I am just trying to point out that there is a huge inherent risk and as our horses are progressing and we are tightening our expectations of performance and brilliance and perfection we need to be very clear about excellent competition environments and surroundings.

This concern starts with the airtransports and goes into every detail of a horses stay …
I am not ‘against Hongkong’ - not in the least- I am solely wondering what interest a city like Hongkong might have in making equestrian olympic competition happen…?

.

.

the weather, and the facilities are certainlly ebtter , more 'horse friendly" :eek: at Aachen:yes:

equestrian games have always been and will be a matter of money - but no matter how much money you supply, it ìs also a question of mentality, tradition AND - last but not least- “equestrian infrastructure”.

with respect to championships as such, where countries can APPLY for the games (and hopefully know how much it will cost them AND how they fund it) the matter stays somewhat reasonable but with the olympics its different. once you have them you are tacked down to the equestrian part of it, too. but even with the non-olympic championships we have seen in the past that many countries simply underestimate the financial AND organisational burden, bills haven’t been paied, some events needed to be rearranged on short notice to different countries - the latest example still very alive in most organizers heads surely is the european championship of dressage 2005 which was supposed to be taken place in moskau. the event had been allocated AND planned for long in advance - to finally realize three weeks (!) before that it couldn’t be done - for any reason you can think of. and here we are talking dressage ONLY. not even to mention highly expensive eventing or any further discipline.
three weeks.
it was taken over by a tiny place in germany called lingen, home of kasselmann, a privately run entity.
it was refered to as the “miracle of lingen” by the media as it seemed impossible to provide for an event like that within only three weeks.
well, the rest is history, those european dressage championships turned out to be a great success in any respect.

the point i am trying to make is: how far can you strech “idealistic” demands within in the sense of “spirit of games” without loosing control? where does reasonability overcome idealism and spirit?

when the word was spread around that aachen COULD provide for the olympic games (and i doubt it was the organisation committe of aachen who started this as everybody knows: it is a highly political matter) people were torn apart but the one thing they agreed upon immediately was:
“these are olympic games - and the spirit of the games requires everything to be taken place at the same place … BUT we could think about having any further (non-olympic) championships (european or world championships) taking place in aachen in the future…”

which suggests that the discuccion about hong kong is rather of idealsitic than reasonable matters. as reasonability clearly speaks for itself. and that is not any exotic place anywhere in the world.

fact is:
the spirit of the games has already been somewhat abused by moving the equestrian games from peking to hong kong in the first place, for all the good reasons mentioned.
the FEI did NOT support such move and had to finally give in to what the IOC decided.

should the FEI now really support a further final move to a third location for simple reasons of economics AND hippological background - i don’t think that anyone could blame them for simply being consequence in that matter, specially when there seem to be certain signals of “insecurity” coming from hong kong with respect to confidence and committment.
and again: if there are signs like that coming from hong kong, they certainly are acceptable.

as it does make a huge difference being home of a highly priviliged race horse culture on an isolated ISLAND serving a comparable “handful” of (again: privileged) race horse people compared to hosting games some 14-21 days in a row with different demands for groundwork, eventing courses, infrastructure etc to welcome some 600.000 non-privileged people from all around the world who continue to travel in and out, need space, facilities etc… all that ideally provided at affordable prices simply to make sure people from all over the world really COME to see it and pay the open bills… as those games are MEANT to be for poeple from all over the world, too.
hong kong?
i just don’t see that happening.
not for jo doe jetting over to find a 2 x 4 double-bedroom/wc and breakfast incl…
but i guess it is fair to say that aachen has just delivered a masterpiece of logistics and horesmanship providing for the best WEG ever held (thats how they refer to it in the media overhere already) - and they even managed to break even on it. masterpiece, i’ld say, as this has never been heard of with respect to equestrian games before.
and it does seem that on top of that they made everybody happy: participants (horses!) AND visitors from all over the world.

except for me.
as i am used to parking right in front of the main entrance of the stadium every year when i go watch the CHIO in aachen. but guess what?
THEY MADE ME USE THE PARK&RIDE FACILITY HAVING TO SQUEEZE ON A SHUTTLE BUS TO GET TO THE STADIUM!!!
how could they possibly do that???
i was so p…ed at them!
even worse so, how could they do that to some 45thousand visitors a day NOT being able to park right in front of the stadium?
do you know how long it took me having to make the detour from the autobahn to get to the p&r facilities?
and do you know how long it took me to get on that damn shuttle to finally be able to enter the stadium???
it took me some 20 minutes surplus time…
no one had to spend more than 20 min in order to get into the stadium once having dropped their own car at one of the p&r facilities.

THAN i started thinking of athens.
and yes, i do acknowledge the equestrian background even athens can provide with respect to having hosted equestrian games: wasn’t it the greek who inventend the trojan horse to finally conquer their enimies and take back beautiful helena (who, after all those years, didn’t even want to go back to greece…)???
as much as i acknowledge the equestrian background of asian cultures - dschingis kahn and mongolian ponies. and they did serve their merits!
but PLEASE!
now we are talking sports, no myths…

the infrastructure in athens was a nightmare, no matter where you came from, you needed to plan in a lot of surplus time only to get to the stadium. at least if you are used to spend some 20 min surplus time to get where you want WHENEVER you want… not to speak of the costs as such. is it really necessary to spend double digit million figures simply to provide for a 6km eventing course anywhere in the world just because some 60 horses are going to do the cross at one single day and after that it can be FORGOTTEN???
not to mention the waste of costly water it takes to make sure the grass ground works the way it needs to…
and we are not even talking the different warm up areas for jumping and dressage grounds…
i have seen at least six or seven 20 x 60plus permanent riding grounds at the aachen stadium - and i am sure any local riding club in that area would consider themselves heavenly lucky if only they owned one half of such ground…
but these are selfunderstood in aachen and well be taken care of in the future as they have natural use for it many times a year.

a friend of mine complained about having to pay 200 euros for a simple hotel room in aachen as those were heavily overpriced for the games. oh yes, it did make me think of the expenses i had in athens… but fact is: 200 euros and 20 surplus minutes are nothing. (he had a shuttle bus right from his hotel room and it took him less than ten minutes to get to the stadium) and if you were willing to spend your overnights in the netherlands or outside viscinities you could easily reduce your costs and still be able to make it within an hour or two INCL those nasty 20 surplus minutes for p&r…

hong kong?

of course all those sheiks could sponsor these amounts easily but is that within the sense of the spirits of the games?
sponsored by oil?
warmblood?

and here we are back to mentality, idealism and tradition: i am sure within the next couple of hundreds of years each and everyone of us will be able to travel the moon for whatever reason. and maybe we even set up our own population up there. and i will surely applaud to the first 100-meter-record being broken without any astronaut equipment to be carried… but is that a reason to shoot horses up there and provide for equestrian events simply because it CAN be done???

i am a great supporter of the olympic idea and may the games take place all over the world - but there are certain limits that do come with the simple nature of equestrian sport as such and olympic spirit to me also includes visitors from all over the world and natural environment for those horses.

simple things.
it starts with the simple availability of straw to bed them propperly in their stables. i remember my sheer disbelief when i watched a documentation of sport horses being imported by the japanese to tokio - they don’t have straw (a natural supplement that is available at least in europe for less than what you pay for the movie theater on saturday nights… and that very amount pays you a monthly stock of straw for your horse).
in tokio it has to be imported with the horses from (ideally) europe - which makes it incredibly expensive. which is the reason they turn out the dirty straw from the stall, “clean” it as good as they can and let it dry in the sun - to re-use it again and again. apart from the fact that this procedure is of harm to the health of the horses as germs in the straw are being kept alive and horses - as their nature has it - love nibbling their straw, it is just redicolous.
as a horse is a horse is a horse.
and so are equestrian sports.

may the games begin - but in order to make them games for each and everyone, maybe europe (or any other naturally equipped country) is a better place than HK.

My vision<g>

Right through to the last minute, the equestrian will go to Hong Kong, thus allowing the IOC/Beijing/Hong Kong/FEI to remain on one page of solidairity and rosy outlook.

And then, at the last minute possible, there will be an outbreak of some virus and sadly, unexpectedly, the horse sports will have to be shifted to a facility that can pull everything together quickly. (guess who).

Politics will be served, horses will be served and equestrian will stay in the Olympics.

and if this scenario comes to pass, I will applaud EVERYONE who had the guts to make the correct decision.

It seems you know how this works

Aachen, because it has a Dutch organiser, German support and a 50.000 stadium.

But on the other hand what do I have to do with all these Chinese Music arrangments for HongKong.:wink: which I have prepared.

Theo

I would like to see them remain in HK - not so sure the reports of using Aachen should be taken so seriously at this point, all the way up until Athens we were hearing through almost formal channels that they were thinking of bringing equestrian/even the whole Olympic Games, back to Sydney as Athens wasn’t up scratch/going to be finished - most importantly because it is geograhpically close to the Olympic city and ‘almost’ the same country.

Its only two or three weeks folks, and knowing how superbly the race horses are looked after, and cope, in Honkers I hardly think anything bad will happen to the ponies because of the environment/conditions AND I think we need all the help we can get in neutralising the homeground advantage to the Germans and the Dutch!!!

Hong Kong may be far away for you, but it is actually approximately the same distance to fly from the west coast of the US to Europe as it is to fly from Europe to Hong Kong, or from the west coast to Hong Kong.

Can thery doit?

Have they been able to develop a “disease free zone ?” that was one of the requirements for hosting the games.and, though I hate to give the IOC a reason to cut Equestrian from the Olympics, the horses’ welfare must be most important.

que sera sera

I, most assuredly, do not want to go to Hong Kong. However, if it should happen that Miss Independent qualifys for the 2008 Team - and - if Hong Kong is it, then (sigh) I would certainly go.

Having just returned from Aachen yesterday, I would much prefer to return there, or somewhere in Europe … a long Asian trip wouldn’t thrill me.

We had great fun in Aachen, and we are so proud of our team and of Beezie in the individuals!