This is actually a false statement. The CDC has recommended that schools reopen IF the level of community transmission in the surrounding community is low. Unfortunately, that is not the case in large swaths of the U.S.
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As already noted, CDC guidance was that schools should open if community transmission is low. In general, I would say that the CDC (and AAP) documents are not terribly thoughtful in terms of what school is like or especially what it would be like if the kids and staff follow their guidelines. You don’t get a lot of social support eating 6’ or more away from every other human, and apparently none of them have tried to hire a bus driver on the budgets we have.
No one started from the “how would we design a school to be safe and how much money should we allocate to do that.” Instead it’s all been, how can we get kids back in school somehow without spending anything extra, except maybe we’ll supply hand sanitizer and kleenex for once.
CDC in normal times would be among the world’s lead agencies in such an event, but they’ve barely said anything since March. This is its own separate tragedy.
In any case, as schools have tried to reopen in places with community spread, there’s been significant new transmission. So if there was a question about that, it’s now answered.
And no public health official is going to be happy about travel from 40+ states by thousands of people to gather in one spot.
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As already noted, CDC guidance was that schools should open if community transmission is low. In general, I would say that the CDC (and AAP) documents are not terribly thoughtful in terms of what school is like or especially what it would be like if the kids and staff follow their guidelines. You don’t get a lot of social support eating 6’ or more away from every other human, and apparently none of them have tried to hire a bus driver on the budgets we have.
No one started from the “how would we design a school to be safe and how much money should we allocate to do that.” Instead it’s all been, how can we get kids back in school somehow without spending anything extra, except maybe we’ll supply hand sanitizer and kleenex for once.
CDC in normal times would be among the world’s lead agencies in such an event, but they’ve barely said anything since March. This is its own separate tragedy.
In any case, as schools have tried to reopen in places with community spread, there’s been significant new transmission. So if there was a question about that, it’s now answered.
And no public health official is going to be happy about travel from 40+ states by thousands of people to gather in one spot.
Lets’ be realistic. Not one ounce of this can be applauded. Cancel the event 2 days prior to starting it? Besides causing absolute heartbreak for all of those kids who made the trek; how did this alleviate any risk? It didn’t. The vast majority were already on the grounds. If they were not; they were in the process of driving their ponies all the way to the show grounds or about to pull into the drive from all over the country. Does USEF not realize or understand the cost just to ship in to one of these events? The fact that many parents are counting pennies to get their kid to this show every year?
I am in full support of canceling or postponing shows for the safety of everyone if that is the chosen path. But to do it 2 days before the event kick-off where people have traveled hundreds and thousands of miles to show; despicable.
and dont worry @EnjoyThe Ride … the ever-so-lovely @skydy believes that because she had a distance acquaintance die from COVID; that she is suddenly the nationwide expert in viral epidemiology and transmission> According to her logic and immense education on the virus; no statistic or contradicting information is worth any consideration. And she acts as though she is the only person here to have any personal experience with COVID. I have close acquaintances who have had family members hospitalized for months by COVID and they still believe the way we are tip toeing around our lives in fear is downright wrong.
Um because the more time these strangers from all over the country were interacting with each other and the local community, the more likely disease would be transmitted.
Your argument is kind of like you’ve already had sex so you might as well keep having sex because there’s no increased risk of pregnancy once you’ve had sex once.
Bad stats, friends.
Also generally in poor taste to mock or minimize someone’s else’s tragedies. Mocking the pony kids is also cruel. Pointing out that their parents, trainers, and our NGB were making bad choices from the start isn’t mocking, it’s legitimate criticism.
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Snaf just doesn’t like skydy because that COTHer (and others) regularly eat her lunch in the racing forum.
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I may have posted this up thread but, given that the last day of the show that was running was cancelled plus several upcoming shows, the fact that one of those shows was pony finals may or may not have mattered. May be part of the Covid protocol to cancel events for a certain amount of time for a given number of positive tests.
Doesn’t change the fact that this particular event should have been cancelled far enough in advance for people to plan.
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Then we have this brilliant player in Kentucky https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art…d-funeral.html
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Actually you’re incorrect.
My point is that it was already too late. the majority of attendees were already in the area for the show. So cancelling it 2 days prior did absolutely nothing for protecting the general population surrounding the show. Cancelling it 4-8 weeks prior would’ve actually had benefit.
As far as mocking skyd:; I wasn’t mocking. Her blatant disrespect for others because they have differing opinions/stats that may contradict what she believes is right/the right path is getting tiresome. I am very sorry to anyone who lost someone to this horrible virus; but all opinions are valid here whether you personally agree with them or not.
Your accusation that I feel I am the only person to have had any personal experience with COVID is bizarre. Over 5 Million people in the U.S. have been infected with the virus and 168,000 have died so far, and every day the human toll rises.
Sorry, not all “opinions” regarding this pandemic are valid. Scientists whom are working night and day to find how the virus affects humans, are doing their best to help all of us. Their papers and opinions, some in condensed form (so no excuse not to read) are available on the web.
If people who just don’t get it, would take the time to read, I think there would be fewer misguided “valid opinions” masquerading as facts. Uneducated beliefs are irresponsible, and we are seeing the fruit of that ignorance in increasing rates of infection and death in the U.S. at a shameful rate compared with other developed countries.
Understanding what is known and what is yet to know about the virus is very important. Why some people in the U.S. seem to be incapable of realizing that they should pay attention to proper scientific sources during a pandemic, is beyond me.
The internet is very helpful if you make an effort to read beyond the tabloid and political and seek out the science.
No scientist/epidemiologist has all the answers as of now, but they are working on it. The stakes are too high to give credence to uninformed internet “opinions” no matter how “valid” they claim to be.
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Already there, but not simply staying there.
We have posters on this thread out in the local grocery stores
We have articles of people going and doing tourist things and hitting up local restaurants and shops.
And all of them are going home carrying and depositing anything they’ve come across along the way.
Your point is still not just overly simplistic, it is wrong. Already there was neither a static nor permanent state.
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Herein lies the problem - the “experts” are often contradicting themselves. WHO advised against routine dental care last week due to COVID-19 risks. https://www.sciencealert.com/who-says-you-should-delay-routine-dental-work-due-to-coronavirus-risk
Apparently, WHO is not aware of the relationship of dental health to systemic health, and doesn’t believe that dental care is essential. The ADA then made a statement that dental care is, indeed, essential and strongly disagrees with the WHO. https://www.ada.org/en/press-room/news-releases/2020-archives/august/american-dental-association-dentistry-is-essential-health-care
In the same proximity, a dentists announced the publication of a peer-reviewed study showing a link between poor periodontal health and liklihood of death from COVID-19. https://www.dentistrytoday.com/news/industrynews/item/6778-covid-19-patients-with-periodontitis-face-greater-risk-of-dying
So, do you believe the WHO, who seems to think oral health isn’t important? Or do you believe the US dentists? Having seen dental care in other countries, I would believe the US over the WHO any day. So, which “valid opinions” do you believe? So many are conflicting that it seems impossible to make the right choice.
Another fun one - last week it was determined that stretchy gaiter may actually SPREAD COVID-19. Yet USEF had encouraged competitors to wear these face coverings at shows. We see photo after photo of people riding around the hunter and jumper rings with these things around their necks (and if anyone falls off and a horse catches a hoof in one, the exhibitor will die, anyway.). The data changes daily. Who is right? Who is wrong? I do read, and the message is constantly changing as more data is available or as people change their opinions. I trust the data. No masks are better than gaiters as of today. And nearly everyone at the shows is wearing a stupid gaiter.
I don’t think that’s intellectually honest.
First off, let’s be honest about who the WHO and the ADA are.
-The WHO is an arm of the UN and its mission is to promote worldwide health. In this context, that means trying to have the fewest people get seriously ill and die.
-The ADA is a lobbying group made up of dentists and its mission is to support the business goals of its members. That means making sure dentists make money.
A trade group/lobbying group is not exactly an unbiased “expert source.” It is paid for by dues from members who are dentists. If it is to stay afloat, those dentists must make money. It’s no more an “expert” on stopping the spread of coronavirus than the NRA is an expert on gun safety. Like the NRA it is a group with an agenda. I’m not criticizing that agenda, but just because two groups say something-- it doesn’t make the value of those statements equal. Doctors everywhere say excessive consumption of sugar is bad for you. Coca cola says it’s good. Does that mean the “experts” disagree? After all, who knows better about sugary drinks than the #1 company producing them! Of course not. Different speakers, different agendas, different motivations.
Second, let’s be honest about what the WHO is actually saying.
The ADA is partially straw manning here. The WHO didn’t say EVERYONE should skip ALL dental work. It says that additional protective measures should be put in place (which seemingly the ADA does not take issue with) and that people who are simply getting cosmetic or routine/non-essential care postpone that care. The WHO is not saying that everyone should stop going to the dentist.
The WHO does not suggest people skip ALL dental treating. By it’s own recommendation, treating periodontitis would likely fall outside of “routine” cleaning. Someone with red, inflamed gums is not merely getting a routine cleaning-- they are getting treatment for a condition that needs to be addressed. My father had periodontitis. He did not go for 2x yearly screenings and cleanings. He had regular periodic appointments to treat his gums. He’s not who the WHO is talking about. Someone like that would fall outside the class of people who the WHO suggests should postpone the dental visit.
That study doesn’t surprise me. It is well documented that periodontitis can lead to life threatening cardiac conditions. Covid has been seen to cause life threatening cardiac conditions. It does make sense that someone who has a preexisting condition (periodontal disease) would be more at risk of dying of covid. That means periodontal disease is a comorbodity just like many others (diabetes and obesity being two significant ones). All of us People with periodontitis should get it treated and the WHO isn’t suggesting otherwise.
Third, it’s not a totally black of white issue the way you suggest. There’s a cost benefit analysis here.
Obviously, preventive dental screening is important. It can catch serious, deadly conditions (oral cancer among them). But if I don’t get a cleaning and my early stage cancer is missed, I’m not going to give cancer to my family, friends, and co-workers. Same with my periodontitis. The risk is there but it’s limited because it’s only a risk to me.
But as equally obvious-- there is no way for the patient to be masked during dental work and the procedures will spray droplets of liquid (which can include the virus if the patient is infected) into the air. Even if the dentist/hygienist has PPE on the virus can get through the PPE and infect the dentist/hygienist. So there is some risk to the dentist/hygienist.
There’s a risk benefit analysis here. A small number of people are going to suffer serious and even deadly outcomes from skipping routine, non-essential dental care. It’s a number, But it’s not huge. On the other hand, a large number of people are at risk of serious bodily injury/death if coronavirus spreads. It’s highly contagious and dental cleaning is essentially creating a situation where (if the patient is positive) you are spraying coronvirus into the air and into the face of someone inches away. That’s hugely, hugely dangerous. And it’s a risk not just to the dentist but to the next client who sits in that chair and to all the family, friends, and co-workers of those people. That’s a significant risk.
To give you an analogy (not perfect but an analogy)-- we’re up in a plane and I have a dozen parachutes but one of them is broken and I don’t know which one. If you pick that one, you’ll plummet to your death. That being said, it’s a gorgeous day and you’ve always wanted to skydive. This was a gift from a friend and you probably won’t be able to afford to try again for a while. DO YOU WANT TO TAKE YOUR CHANCES WITH THE BROKEN PARACHUTE? It’s a cost/benefit decision. The cost is not guaranteed but it’s a huge cost. The benefit exists bit it’s small. I would wager you weigh things out in favor of skipping the skydive.
Cost benefit analysis-- the smart choice is to pick where the risk is smaller. The risk is smaller if people who do not have active conditions needing treatment postpone seeing the dentist. The risk of spreading coronavirus, a deadly and highly infectious virus, is significant and widespread. The benefit is small-- a few people will miss important care but not in a widespread way. Many other people will be inconvenienced. But weighing it out-- for most people it makes sense to wait to see the dentist.
And that’s all the WHO is saying.
This isn’t a disagreement on the SCIENCE. It’s a health organization making a recommendation to keep more people safe and a trade group making a recommendation to increase the wealth of its members.
Intellectual honesty is important.
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Not all neck gators are made of the same fabric so you can not toss them all into the same pool of hate.
I think having a gator around your neck while riding is not really anymore a risk of death than wearing a shirt while you ride. If the horse gets a hoof stuck in your neck gator you likely already have big problems that the neck gator are not going to add too. And heck, the fabric is so flimsy, as you say, they will likely rip quickly.
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I didn’t even get into this “deflection” (I was just focused on the WHO/ADA issue) but this is even sillier. The number of people who die or are seriously hurt because they fall off a horse and get entangled in a piece of fabric each year can probably be counted on one hand. The number dead from covid in the US along for 6 months is likely to hit 200,000 by labor day.
Seat belts are not perfect so I think I’ll drink 10 beers and drive my car off a cliff. Big brain logic!
If you trust the data, its pretty clear that N95s or K95s or similar are very good at stopping the spread. As are fabric masks (including homemade). So stop worrying about gaiters and wear one of those? Instead of throwing up your hands and doing nothing?
Condoms are only 97% safe at stopping STDs so since they’re imperfect I’m off to raw dog some IV drug users in an orgy in a back alley. BIG BRAIN LOGIC!
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