I agree with adding better score requirement or some sort of test.
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This was another very important part of that article:
USEA is assuming that if you make everyoneās data look like the data of the safest riders that everyone will become that safe. Thatās a hypothesis. Itās something they think might happen, but donāt know. If they are wrong and the actual most common cause of falls is something besides just the number of times a horse/rider pair ran a recognized event, then this sport will have become more expensive and less inclusive without actually making it safer.
We do not know exactly what causes these falls. We are speculating that it inexperience. That is likely part of it - but it is not the whole thing.
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The USEA is not [only] motivated by safety. Once you take that perspective the increase in MERs makes more sense. A sad realityā¦
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Yes, agreed. If simple arithmetic were the answer, I should be riding at Rolex. 8 MERs = Prelim, 8 more MERs = Intermediateā¦Good intentions thoā¦
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I find as a UK based person the hypocrisy outstanding on the MERs debate.
Just had a look at Rolex and Mike Pendleton has never done a 4S or completed a 4L which is extraordinary that they then have popped an entry in for 5*.
Felicia Barr has done 3 x 4*L and only completed one which was not the most recent two she has attempted.
Anyway I think America needs to look all the way through at its MERs and encouraging better rider responsibility.
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This is not correct. No comment on whether or not itās appropriate for him to enter Kentucky (Iām not remotely qualified to judge), but he completed a 4L at both the Jockey Club and Fair Hill in 2019 (Fair Hill albeit with 15 jump penalties xc). Prior to those runs, he completed two 4Ss at Unionville and Great Meadow, neither with xc jump penalties. He is a category C rider - those were not optional for him. He was qualified for Kentucky 2020, if it had run.
FEI record here: https://data.fei.org/Person/Performance.aspx?p=B0F941A2FEBA26E8B13442D180F3DD9C
My apologies as went off USEA record which only showed last years Tryon run.
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USEA does not have any role in the FEI qualifications anyway.
My point still remains though that the USEA is driving through a rule change that doesnāt sit with the international body. The elite end of the sport has less stipulations than the bottom of the pyramid. Under USEA rules (which I appreciate are different) a lot of the riders who are entered at Kentucky wouldnāt comply with what USEA is proposing. The sport is essentially two sports - one for grassroots and one for the elite. There should be parity and fairness.
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Awesome. Glad to hear that they took the feedback/concerns seriously. I hope they are also serious about getting diverse input through this task force.
āThe Board has made it clear that they will submit an amended proposal again with the intent for implementation in 2023. To this end, the USEA will establish a task force to further review the proposal, make additional inquiries into related data, and analyze the input received. This task force will consist of representation by individuals from diverse backgrounds and geographically varied locations around the country. The goal is to have an updated rule in effect for the 2023 competition year.ā
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Voices heard. Letās hope a solution can be thought up.
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Amazingā¦Thank God someone actually listened.
I wholeheartedly agree with you here. We must have a healthy respect for the sport not only for our safety but our horses safety!
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Fantastic that they listened. Now itās time for us all to put our thinking caps on.
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I agree. If we (general everyone) just ignore this now, we will be in the same place again next year.
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The good news is that @ake987 has been working her butt off this week assembling some stats focusing on horse falls at Prelim, and now we have more time to do even more analysis!
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Iāve been thinking about this thread a lot while doing barn chores etc, and work is slow this morning so Iām going to babble about my thoughts even though I have nowhere near the depth or breadth of experience in eventing as some here.
First, I think the idea of a qualitative jumping evaluation is really interesting. What if (maybe just at certain levels or in certain designated āmove-upā divisions) there was a short scored course just before XC? Each movement/obstacle would be scored according to objective criteria and if you donāt attain a certain percentage you canāt go on to XC (or maybe have to downgrade to the next level for that day, though that could cause some logistical nightmares). XC could be shortened slightly to compensate.
The course would include jumps obviously, but also specific tasks like trotting a fence, halting after a fence before you reach a certain point, cantering a related distance in your horseās normal stride, then doing the same distance again with one stride added or subtracted, etc.
Yes, it would āchange the sport.ā Yes, it would add some time and the expense of another official. No, I donāt have a grasp of all of the logistics. No, thereās no proof it would do any good. But it could be something to consider.
Another method of qualitative evaluation could be set-curriculum āmove-up clinicsā with certified instructors. Iām thinking an unmounted portion including some riding theory, what to expect at the next level, course walking, etc and then 1-1.5 hours of mounted instruction in a group followed by a scored test as described above. I know access could be difficult in some Areas, but itās just another idea for some standardized rider education.
Second, what about rethinking permitted equipment, specifically bridles/bitting, at the lower levels? If a person canāt get around Novice safely in a fairly straightforward bit, perhaps they should focus more on training the horse rather than moving up the levels?
Third, I strongly disagree with requiring better dressage scores or ācompetitivenessā for riders to advance up the levels. The fact of the matter is that often, especially at the lower levels, dressage scores = competitiveness, and gaits = dressage scores. What dressage scores probably do not = is safe XC jumping (this will be part of the analysis @ake987 has been working on, by the way). Sure, a half-out-of-control horse in the dressage test doesnāt bode well for XC, but I donāt see why a dressage score in the 20s should be predictive of better safety over fences than a score in the 40s.
To be clear, I am not a dressage hater. Until the past few years when I started focusing on eventing, I primarily rode dressage starting from age 11. I evented briefly around 2000 when I was in Pony Club and again around 2010 when I could afford a second horse in addition to my dressage horse who couldnāt jump for soundness reasons. I got my USDF gold medal on a not-super-fancy horse I bought as a 4-year-old and brought along as the primary rider, with help from an excellent GP coach. I take regular lessons with her on my TB eventer. I love dressage. I love the training process and teaching a horse to use its body better. I think dressage is an invaluable foundation for any other training.
However, with the way dressage is scored these days (score = basics + criteria + modifiers, with basics starting with the gaits), horse quality can to a certain extent overshadow training, rideability, correct riding, etc.
My current TB is a perfect example of a XC machine who was mediocre in dressage with his past (both amateur and BNT) riders (typically mid 30s with a few low 40s and one score in the high 40s) due to a meh trot and plus a tendency to get tense. Heās also a plain bay whoās āonlyā 15.3 hh. However, heās an absolutely perfect partner for me, an adult amateur who wants to learn, have fun, and above all be safe. If we win some ribbons, great, but most of us arenāt going to the Olympics anyway. He is a safe, athletic jumper who has gone through Prelim without a single XC jumping fault on his record. I was so impressed by him that I literally asked the seller why I could afford him and she said, āWell, nobody wants Thoroughbreds anymore and he has that pony trot.ā
It kind of made me sad for the sport because heās exactly the horse most people like me should be buying, but instead thereās an incentive to buy flashy WBs or ISHs because they score well in dressage and give you the starting point you need to be ācompetitiveā (obviously some of them are super jumpers too, not trying to over-generalize too much here). I saw horses for sale at the same price as mine who were nicer movers but had only done a few Novices, and horses with spotty jumping records at Training or Prelim going for twice as much because they had a nice trot and could score in the 20s.
And guess what? With 1.5 years of dressage training (6 months of which was just rehabbing from stepping on a damn nail on a trail ride last spring), his dressage is MUCH better than it was when I bought him. Just in the last month or two, Iām seeing improvements every week in the quality of his trot, his throughness, etc and he recently discovered that he can do an actual medium trot and working canter pirouettes! He is so smart and tries so damn hard. My coach actually thinks that if I could get him up to Prix St Georges he could be reasonably competitive at that level (he would hate it thoughājumping is his thing!).
Weāre finally doing out first HTs together this spring, knock on wood, and I know there will be some backsliding in the show ring due to tension and anticipation, but Iām really excited to learn from and have fun with him. His rideability over fences has also greatly improved from all the dressage work and the skills he has helped me learn over fences. I firmly believe that he is worth his weight in gold and I give thanks every day that I went to see him based on his show record and one tiny blurry photo on the Eventing Nation classifieds.
Anyway, this is getting really really long and probably no one will read it all, but what if TPTB made safe jumping horses more desirable at the low/mid levels than fancy prancers (again, no hate for dressage)? What if āeventing dressageā (sorry) at the low/mid levels was scored without reference to gait quality as long as the gaits were pure, so that the focus could be on effective riding and good training, and people could be ācompetitiveā on safe-but-not-flashy horses? It might help people from being priced out of the sport by the cost of good horses too.
Does any of this make sense to anyone but me? I fully admit Iām not nearly as knowledgeable of the sport as others, and I am interested to hear thoughts about my various ramblings if anyone has them.
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This is/was my guy (we still run and jump but not really competing, heās 26). He was very solid x-country. When I was finally able to move up, I didnāt doing any T/P events mostly because my concerns were more for the show jumping but I never had any real concerns for the x-country. Even now with todayās x-country courses (havenāt gone prelim since 2012) I have no doubts he would have been ok. I never had to worry about level creep with him.
He was well schooled at home, always did our homework, for both the flat work and jumping in the ring but yes, he was tricky in D and S. It was a good day for us if we got a dressage score under 40.
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In Canada back when there was still steeplechase in the long format, there were move-up clinics for first-timers at CCIs.
I attended one before my first one star (now 2 star). It was put on by Equestrian Canada with our national team coach. There was unmounted discussion of conditioning and season plans, a dressage test with feedback and SJ and XC evaluations with feedback. At the end you got a private 15 or 20 minutes sit down with the coach and preferably you own coach also present, to discuss your readiness. There was a form filled out, copy to you and copy to Equestrian Canada.
I donāt know what happened if you didnāt pass, as I recall there was only one of these clinics in our area per year.
If this model were used for move up to UL, then it would obviously be on a much larger scale with more coaches and clinics. Alternatively you could just book a couple lessons with designated/approved coaches and get your evaluation and paperwork done on your own schedule.
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