21 year old maiden mare breeding-experience

[eightpondfarm]

Degradation of an egg in an older female is a thing, in women for sure and - as in the report i posted - a similar problem in mares. The eggs themselves, not the pregnancy. Though that of course does present an ever-growing issue as the mare ages. There are studies, actual studies of this occurrence.

i’m no vet and i don’t play one on TV, but i was told by a vet not to try embryo transfer on a 17 yr old mare for the very reason of possibility of an odd-foal. And that was way back in 2001. So i purchased a lovely gelding that was superb and better looking than even the stallion i’d been thinking of to use. (all involved were Morgans)

[Texarkana]

A lot of people breed mares in their late teens and early 20s. While there is slight concern about degradation, it is not a major concern as it is with humans. The risk is more in physically carrying the foal (which becomes a non-issue with ET).

Secretariat was born to an 18 year old mare. I’d be thrilled if I ended up with that kind of “odd” foal.

[Montanas_Girl]

@eightpondfarm

Degradation of an egg in an older female is a thing, in women for sure and - as in the report i posted - a similar problem in mares. The eggs themselves, not the pregnancy. Though that of course does present an ever-growing issue as the mare ages. There are studies, actual studies of this occurrence.

You don’t fully understand what you are reading. Declining oocyte quality results in lower pregnancy rates. That is not AT ALL the same thing as the chromosome issues seen in “geriatric” human pregnancies.

As to the risk of an “odd” foal, your vet was just plain wrong. There is absolutely no data to support that claim.

[eightpondfarm]

ok fine.

[fanfayre]

@Texarkana

Secretariat was born to an 18 year old mare.

But she wasn’t a maiden!

[Texarkana]

@fanfayre

@Texarkana

Secretariat was born to an 18 year old mare.

But she wasn’t a maiden!

Right, but the claim was that a 17 year old could produce an “odd foal” because of degradation of her eggs and therefore isn’t a candidate for ET. And that is incorrect.

Eggs lose viability with age. The mare’s risk while physically carrying the foal increases with age. But congenital defects from the age of the eggs is of minimal concern.

[fanfayre]

No, I understand that, and wasn’t trying to refute it. The reason I was the first person to respond with Don’t was because of her age and the reduced chances of viable oocytes, as well as the stress of the procedures. But I’ve only bred 2 mares, and the older one wasn’t a maiden and the younger one, her daughter, was 12, and even then I was warned she was getting a bit old to be a first timer- but she caught 1st dose.
And now all 3 generations are gone

The OP has made up her mind and has lots of $ to potentially throw away, so I’ll keep out of it from here on

[Texarkana]

@fanfayre

No, I understand that, and wasn’t trying to refute it. The reason I was the first person to respond with Don’t was because of her age and the reduced chances of viable oocytes, as well as the stress of the procedures. But I’ve only bred 2 mares, and the older one wasn’t a maiden and the younger one, her daughter, was 12, and even then I was warned she was getting a bit old to be a first timer- but she caught 1st dose.
And now all 3 generations are gone

The OP has made up her mind and has lots of $ to potentially throw away, so I’ll keep out of it from here on

I was responding to @eightpondfarm’s claim, not to you or the OP.

And I have a feeling @eightpondfarm’s vet was just trying to squash the idea with the “odd foal” comment. ET was still pretty rudimentary in 2001 and there are any number of reasons a vet might try to dissuade someone from doing it back then.

As for the OP, the OP can do what she wants.

[eightpondfarm]

He was a repro vet too. I’d used him for AI a couple of times prior to this twice on the same mare that is. Only one breeding. Eventually he moved on from private practice to Purina. A well-known, well-respected vet in our area.

[Texarkana]

@eightpondfarm

He was a repro vet too. I’d used him for AI a couple of times prior to this. Eventually he moved on from private practice to Purina. A well-known, well-respected vet in our area.

Vets are human. He might have mistakenly believed that. Or he might have had any number of reasons for not wanting to ET your mare and thought it was a good way to talk you out of it. Who knows.

[eightpondfarm]

probably thought i was crazy lol. Lots of people do!

[CuriosoJorge]

@eightpondfarm

quick google gave me several similar responses:
A mare’s reproductive tract undergoes changes with age. The older she is, the more likely she will have problems becoming pregnant. At 17, her eggs are starting to age and have an increased risk of chromosomal abnormalities . The lining of the uterus (endometrium) degenerates and becomes fibrotic over time.Sep 16, 2019

Bless your heart. I don’t have to google because I do this work every day. We can’t do anything about egg quality, but the “uterine fibrosis” you mention is often manageable. That would be the management tricks I referenced way up thread. I’m not here to argue with someone who isn’t even a breeder, much less a veterinarian. However given how often old threads are referenced, I’m not letting this go unchecked.

[eightpondfarm]

@CuriosoJorge

Bless your heart.

nyyyyce

[CuriosoJorge]

@eightpondfarm

nyyyyce

I sure am. Sorry you don’t like being wrong. Or being corrected.

[eightpondfarm]

@CuriosoJorge

I’m not here to argue with someone who isn’t even a breeder, much less a veterinarian.

tone is everything.
If you want to be convincing…well there are more effective ways to do that.

[CuriosoJorge]

@eightpondfarm

tone is everything

Accuracy is also everything.

Not exactly sure how you’re convinced you can decipher “tone” from words on a screen….

[SillyHorse]

@eightpondfarm

nyyyyce

Here’s “tone” for you, lol.

[MadTrotter]

@Scribbler

One solution to replacing a heart horse that comes from a known pedigree is to go shopping for a new horse from the same bloodlines.

Or clone…which I gather can be done for mid 5’s

[SillyHorse]

I’ve been wondering what happened with this mare.

[lekili16]

The equine repro folks told me it would be best to wait until January for reasons that have already been named in this thread. The stud I picked only had frozen available as he was showing again, and the vets suggested against it. So she’s just hanging out until then and we will do ET in January or thereabouts.