Sometimes, you just have to stop feeding the troll…
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😀 whatever if it makes you feel good…
First of all, I started the thread to show a nice video, I never even thought it would evolve into such a weird discussion…and second I will will report you for calling me a troll…
If it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck…:rolleyes:
Have you noticed that most things evolve into a weird discussion when you are involved? But it must be everyone else!
You cannot directly relate the German dressage levels to American dressage levels. They are not equivalent/identical/the same/are two different systems.
If you post an L level dressage test from Germany, that is exactly what it is. I don’t know why you are asking people what level it is?? There is no exact American equivalent if that is what you are looking for. I thought that you’d have a reasonable grasp on how the two systems differ.
If I take my horse out to compete at M level (I’m in Germany) this weekend, I am not going to come to this forum and ask what level it is. It is clearly M level. What other answer is there 
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Somebody gave me the advice to not even argue but simply point to this article… and that’s what I will do from now on… https://dressagetoday.com/theory/an-…petition-52890
“Each level has similar requirements to those of the U.S. There are, however, differences in the breakdown of the tests, how many tests are in each level and even the size of the arena for certain levels.” :encouragement: The last paragraphs of the article also describe the differences.
So yes, the article reinforces what everyone else has been trying to say.
“Somebody” :lol:
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I’m I the only one who’s totally confused because the chart of German levels clearly shows that L is the third level there?
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Oh, so you just have a personal policy to ignore correct information and make up your own stuff in regards to all things USA dressage, not just that 2nd level = L. Got it.
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I’m not sure the thread’s bizarre direction was a matter of evolutionary trajectories, when its development into a pointless standoff about level equivalencies seems to be very much by design.
Internet pro tip: If you want to start an interesting conversation about a video you like, you’re more likely to achieve it by talking about what you think is nice in the vid than browbeating people about technicalities and responding to earnest comments with, “whatever”.
To wit: you asked what level was demonstrated in the last video you posted. The answer is L. I could even say 2nd level if I wanted to mollify you. But none of that is interesting. Perseverating on international level comparisons just isn’t going to get people engaged in sparkling conversation about the ride itself.
I think there’s a word on the internet for repeatedly steering conversations toward irrelevant discord…
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It’s not “perseverating” which is now part of my vocabulary! Awesome and totally right-on word!
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Je suis Pony Owner.
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Yes obviously you are clearly confused 😀😀😀 read again…https://dressagetoday.com/theory/an-international-perspective-on-dressage-competition-52890
Well that’s an awfully tautological chart they’ve got there.
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Exactly. In this chart as well, L is the third level in the German system. So it’s not only not USEF Second Level; it’s not even Germany’s second level.
I don’t understand why you insist on repeatedly referring to it as “Second Level” just because one American magazine chose to put it in the same row as USEF Second Level in an infographic, especially when the text of said article clearly explains there are significant differences between L and Second. You are comparing lemons and limes. Similar, but not the same thing.
I could write an article comparing dressage tests to reining patterns and put them in chart based on their similarities too -still doesn’t make them equivalent to each other. Why not just curtail the drama by editing your OP title to be accurate and / or deleting all the posts where you keep asking people what level the test is? The answer is clearly L. End of story.
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Sure that you looked at the chart??? You seem to have an active phantasy, and I don’t find anything about significant differences 😀. Show me the word significant … Also it mentions that the size of the arena is different because it is usually 20x40m which is smaller… Not sure how this changes the level of the test though… As I said read the article published in Dressage Today and complain to them about what they did wrong…
I guess you need to complain to Dressage Today about it…
Did we read the same article? Because the one you linked to discusses a number of differences, the biggest one being the level of collection required at L compared to Second. In fact that’s pretty much the entire point of the article, that the top European dressage nations require collection at lower levels than the US does.
Dressage Today isn’t the one claiming L and Second are the same. They are crystal clear in the article that they are not, so I have no reason to complain to them.
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And yes I looked at the chart and, unlike some apparently, I can even count to three.
- E
- A* and A**
- L* and L**
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The easiest way to have convinced everyone of your position would be to step us through the respective tests movement by movement, line by line, to show us that the differences are not substantive enough to warrant placing one test on a higher level than the other. Instead, you’ve deferred, ostensibly deliberately, to vague and hand-wavy justifications that not only do nothing to prove your point, but really make me wonder if the other posters accusing you of trolling were correct in that assumption after all.
(And FWIW, everyone else in the thread, I’m making a wicked color-coded chart of an L* test, an L** test, a 2nd Level test, and a 3rd Level test. Spoiler alert: There isn’t a 1-1 correspondence between the L-Dressur tests and 2nd Level, nor is there once between the former and 3rd Level tests. Shocking. It’s almost as if they’re two different systems using different means to get to the same ends.)
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This thread is becoming frayed. The rider and horse are a lovely pair. The level ridden is L which is similar to second level in the US but not entirely equivalent. German A level tests contain 1st and some 2nd level work and L level tests contain 2nd and some 3rd level work while M level tests are most equivalent to 3rd level. A colorful table in a magazine was not sufficient to highlight these differences nor do I believe that was the intention; it simply suggests which levels are most similar. L level contains the majority of 2nd level work with additional elements of 3rd therefore it is most similar to 2nd. I’m not surprised the author didn’t provide excruciating detail on the differences between levels of the various systems in the article. Such an article article would become quite long and pedantic.
It is therefore true that a L level horse may be working at a higher level than a 2nd level horse because some portion of the L** tests would require it to do so. I believe this is what we see in the video, a lovely combination appearing more advanced than a similar quality horse might appear at 2nd level in the US. I’m not sure this causes me to gasp; if we increased our requirements fewer horses would show well at 2nd (or perhaps even participate in Dressage at all which is a growing problem) but those who did would be similarly capable of 3rd. If the suggestion is that US second level would benefit from including elements of 3rd level then perhaps providing some compelling reason would be a good place to start the conversation.
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