4* riders and non-horsey jobs.

:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8788658]
Lol basically. While I’m not taking away that they work hard in the horse industry, I’m saying they only need to work in the horse industry. They don’t need that supplemental income to be able to continue to campaign.

Also, I’d be much more excited about clinicing with or walking courses with someone from the team opposed to someone who hasn’t made the team.

Example: I paid $60 to ride with a well known 3* rider (who actually produced an Olympic mount and sold to said Olympian after she had qualified to run Rolex and make her 4* debut) in my area. She was great. But if I had to pick her over Michael Jung (and money didn’t affect the choice), I’m going to go ride with him despite the fact that I could get so many more lessons in with the 3* rider for the price.[/QUOTE]

:sigh:

I would presume there are equally high but different risks at the goal of attaining 4**** whether as a professional rider or someone working 9-5, and perhaps, totally guestimating that the actual percentage of riders who are ‘professional’ who want/attempt to make the 4**** and do and 9-5’ers who want/attempt to make the 4**** level and do aren’t that far off. Understandably, there are more in number trainer/prof. riders because I’m sure even if they don’t make that level they still want their days to be surrounded by horses.

I finally took a step down from the lower-level, struggling professional rider, to take on an 8-5. My high risks are that I have one horse. If something happens to this one horse I’m out. I don’t have the time to ride more than 1 or 2, but I do have ample time before and after work to devote all my time to those 1 or 2. (I’m considering the 9-5’er with a middle class job, not outliers that make upper six-figures)
I don’t see any reason why if someone totally devoted their out-of-9-5 life to riding they would have any more hardships than the professional rider. (There would definitely be hardships, but I don’t think any more than the rider)

For example, as a single-working woman whose still just as devoted to my horses as my trainer-peers I’ve been able to devote much more money into working with the best trainers and schedule my vacation days around competitions. Because of this I don’t devote the norm hours to a social life, having a family, or hours vacationing other than horse shows.

I would just think that most people, if they share the same passion to ride at the 4**** level also posses the same passion to be at a barn all day so choose that chosen career path.

Yeah, maybe there are more actual amateurs at the top levels in other countries, but not in the U.S. Check out the Advanced Amatuer leaderboard come December for a good idea of how many actual ammies are running at the A and 3* levels… There’s exactly seven of them on there right now and at least two I’m pretty sure aren’t actually amateurs as one of them says she works for Sharon White on her FB and another was a college student in the spring and has a business FB page for her Eventing business where she clearly has students.

Katherine Coleman, who is leading the leaderboard, is based in England normally and came over here for months this winter, so it’s unlikely that her job consists of a typical 9 to 5.

Others like Frankie Theriot Stutes and Kevin Keane ARE amateurs but run their own business that is intimately connected with eventing and can set their hours in a flexible way. Those of us with 9 to 5s aren’t afforded that flexibility.

I was one of them last year, and I DO work a traditional 9 to 5. Luckily that flexes slightly, so three days a week I work 6:30 to 5 and two days a week I work 6:30 to 3, often through lunch, then head out to the barn. This means I get to ride 4 of 7 days a week, which also requires me to board at a barn that will assist me in riding the horse the other two days. Yes, that requires money.

It’s a bit more of a problem because I both live and work in the city, and my barn is an hour drive without traffic. In my previous job, I had extremely early hours which meant I got out early every day and my barn was fifteen minutes from where I lived so I could ride every day myself. I also only had one horse at the time, and was living long distance away from my boyfriend (now husband).

My 3* horse was hurt just before Fair Hill last fall and is out all year this year (hopefully about to start full flatwork). I purchased a baby in April and he’s taking time to sort out his legs, so also won’t be ready to compete this year.

It’s tough. I get the side-eye from work for leaving early twice a week, even though I generally work more hours/week, working late on the three days if necessary, first one in in the mornings, and rearranged which two days I ride if I have meetings or deadlines. I get the side-eye from riders not familiar with me and my situation, who think it’s dumb that I’m not the one on both horses six days a week, passing off trot sets and sometimes gallops to others to do. It’s hard on my bank account (Retirement? What retirement?), it’s a huge time suck, and I can’t go on vacations because I kill all my PTO on horse shows. Once both horses are in full work I have no idea how I’m going to ride both in the evenings as I’m already getting home sometimes at 10 pm just riding one, and once the light goes I may not be able to ride at all after work again until spring. I do what I can though.

But I love it, and I want to go to Rolex on my 3* horse. Once he retires, I want to bring the baby up as far as he can goes, and he ultimately has a ton more natural talent than my ‘big’ horse. And then maybe, I’ll take a break. I can’t do this forever, I can’t do this if I want kids, and a kids and a career and horses (even just one at the UL) just isn’t humanly possible based on what I’m going through now.

So yeah, true 9 to 5 amateurs at the 3/4* levels aren’t much of a thing, at least in this country. By the looks of the Advanced leaderboard, there are maybe three riders on it that have 9 to 5 jobs and you can count me as another, although I’m not actively competing.

People with jobs typically work more than 9 am to 5 pm Monday thru Friday. Many work 7 am to 6 pm!

[QUOTE=Outyougo;8791874]
People with jobs typically work more than 9 am to 5 pm Monday thru Friday. Many work 7 am to 6 pm![/QUOTE]

Yeah, you see the term 9 to 5, but really most jobs I know are 8 to 5…at the very minimum! :lol:

I met the very charming Sonja Johnson today, by chance, who failed to make the Australian Olympic team but will be running at Burghley as a consolation prize. She is a sheep farmer and her 70 year-old mother is keeping her horses fit at home while she is in the UK. Definitely a 4* riding amateur https://www.an-eventful-life.com.au/bloggers/sonja-johnson

Ben Way had a very good Badminton http://www.benwayeventing.uk/profile

“I guess I just always assumed campaigning a 4* horse was a fulltime gig”

It is but it doesn’t pay very well. You’re not going to get high paying endorsements, like Nike or get your picture on a box of Wheaties.

“Amy Tryon was a full time firefighter.”

The best firefighter in the world isn’t going to make enough to support/pay for the expenses of just being able to ride the horse let lone the cost of the horse and the expense of training and all the other associated costs of international competition.

Her “real” job pays her personal costs of “living”.

Everything else is picked up by sponsors and the most important part of the equation “owners”.

I was told I was a pretty darn good ski racer. I skied on what I was given by certain manufacturers, as was the clothing I wore on race days. I could have made the development team. Which came with a certain level of “scholarship funding” but wasn’t enough for my folks to be able to pick up the difference.

At the time I wished I was born in Austria, Swiss, Germany, France etc where ski races are treated like rock stars. In this country then and now they are “also rans”.

Most counties provide for their athletes. They are “given” well paid jobs that don’t interfere with their training.

[QUOTE=Highflyer;8787932]
You don’t really need to do anything else except ride and teach and try to sell horses 18 hours a day, is what she meant, I’m sure. It’s total gravy.[/QUOTE]

Only 18, I want your job

“Kevin Keane ARE amateurs but run their own business that is intimately connected with eventing and can set their hours in a flexible way. Those of us with 9 to 5s aren’t afforded that flexibility”

It took Kevin MANY years working VERY unflexible hours as a veterinarian. Contrary to popular believe most Vets do not make huge money. That ones that make very good money do so because they are heads and tails above the rest. They are gifted but earned that “gift” by doing double duty. Dr. Keane is no spring chicken, he’s in his 60s. But the SOB looks to be in his 40s.

Disclaimer, I consider the good Doctor to be a friend in addition to being one of my very favorite vets to have the pleasure of working with. I have paid and worked with a lot of vets over they years. They don’t come much better than Dr. Keane. He’s a great vet and GREAT people.

[QUOTE=gumtree;8797564]
Only 18, I want your job[/QUOTE]

Sometimes it’s 55 and sunny and I can’t believe I get paid to do it. But anyone considering doing horses fulltime should have to spend a few days like yesterday and the day before outside before they decide.

[QUOTE=gumtree;8797581]
It took Kevin MANY years working VERY unflexible hours as a veterinarian. Contrary to popular believe most Vets do not make huge money. That ones that make very good money do so because they are heads and tails above the rest. They are gifted but earned that “gift” by doing double duty. Dr. Keane is no spring chicken, he’s in his 60s. But the SOB looks to be in his 40s. [/QUOTE]

I totally agree! I actually just met him the other day and he’s now treating my horse. :smiley: But my point is that he makes the four-star level work because he sets his hours (and they are long!). He wasn’t competing at 4* back when he was putting in those years working inflexible hours.

I have a friend who rode at the 2 star level while working as a PhD scientist. She would get up early and drive an hour to the barn. The barn manager would have her horse tacked up and ready for her. After her ride, she would shower at the barn and drive an hour so she was at work by 10am. When my friend moved up to the 4 star level, wanted to compete several horses and decided she wanted to be on the US team, she quit her job. It was too hard to compete several horses and work full time.

I was surprised when I heard this as well. However, the money has to come in from somewhere. You can either work in the barn doing lessons, training, or clinics, or you can work outside of the barn. I would think you’d spend the same amount of time with your own horse either way. In fact, if you had a straight 9-5 job, I’m sure you’d get MORE time with your own horse than most that only work in the barn!

[QUOTE=Divine Comedy;8797867]
I totally agree! I actually just met him the other day and he’s now treating my horse. :smiley: But my point is that he makes the four-star level work because he sets his hours (and they are long!). He wasn’t competing at 4* back when he was putting in those years working inflexible hours.[/QUOTE]

Kevin is definitely one of the exceptions. That is why I asked him how he did it|does it as I know he works hours like me. I’ve spoken with others as well. One consistent aspect of those in more high level careers is that they have more flexible hours (but still work a ton of hours). But these people are the rare exceptions…even among all those on teams mentioned at the start of this thread.

When I was running at intermediate, I got up at 4:30am. Lived near the farm. So was on my horse pretty early, sometime starting in the indoor then heading out as soon as there was light to do canter sets. Off my horse by 6:30 and rushing to get into the office. I eventually sold that horse as it was too much and just had youngsters while I focused on my career. Now that I’m more senior and have more control of my schedule/need less facetime…I’m trying to move back up the levels. But my body isn’t cooperating And I no longer really want to go at the 4*

And this week alone was up at 3:30 am after only a couple hours sleep working. Rode one horse at night who is coming back into work…it never ends.