If I am reading this right he’s to tall for YOU to get the job done? Maybe find someone taller and more experienced to do this part for you?
@Maggiepm You said his teeth were done before you purchased him but were you there to confirm the quality of the exam? If it were me I’d have another dental exam with speculum to confirm no problems inside.
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You may have found the reason why he’s 5 and unstarted. Somebody handled him roughly in the past and you are having to remedy that. How does he do with big carrots ? If he opens his mouth and chews normally, there should be no physical reason that he cannot fit a bit in there.
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I am not sure some of you really read my post. I know initially only half of it appeared. I am not trying to cram a bit in this horse’s mouth and both my husband and I have much experience and patience with young horses. I was looking for techniques anyone found successful. I find you can always learn something new and this is a great forum to share ideas. However you have to read the posts and ask questions.
I am going to back track and just work on having him get used to me working around his mouth. I did find his poll is tight whether from throwing his head up or it was like that (I only had him for a month) When he lunges or is ridden his head comes down and he looks happy and relaxed. He is also very even on both sides.
Thanks for all the input. Rest assured my husband and I are both tall, have experience, and are open to ideas. I have twizzlers and will get some fruit wraps when it is time to try the bit again. For now I am going to work on his poll release and relaxing his jaw. He goes fine in the Dually Halter (Side Pull) so we will stay with that for now.
I want to resolve this issue before we start serious training. My instructor is good but she is not very tall! I do not feel it is fair to leave this problem for her to deal with.
Thanks!!
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Sorry I didn’t mean to insult…I find it can be a training issue and when a young horse gives me trouble I put the bridle on with the horses butt up against something so he can’t back up. I then work on getting the head down to put but in. I will ask for assistance as well, having someone put their finger in the corner of mouth to help get horse to chew. I have even had to stand on a stool sometimes for my 17.2 baby. He was good about bitting until he realized he could put his head up to avoid it. This all was no issue once he was under saddle for a few months and I stuck with it.
When I started my youngster with a bit I bought Chiffney clips which I put on his halter. I clipped one side of the bit to one of the clips and slathered it with molasses. he was mouthy enough to take the bit into his mouth and I clipped it onto the other side of his halter. When I wanted to take it off I just took off the halter. I used a Nathe rubber bit.
at first he only wore it for a few minutes until he had licked off all the molasses. And gradually he wore it for longer and longer periods of time in his stall including eating. The Chiflney clips are safe because they are smooth and he can’t catch them on anything. Because he is wearing his halter and the bit is clipped to one side of it you have your hands free to move a bit around. Without worrying about dropping it or cramming it into his mouth. If he does not like molasses try something he does like that will encourage him to pull the bit into his mouth
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I had a similar problem with my 17hh Andy X and I found this video by Warwick Schiller which helped us a lot.
Uh what?
I’m 5’1" and have to deal with giraffe attempts all the time. Step one is teaching them to put their heads down and keep it there. I do all my work alone, and I’m not playing jumpy-jumpy to try and get stuff done - it ends up making me sloppy when I don’t have to be. Head down has to be an ingrained response. It’s needed in case I need to check an ear, put medication on a face wound, etc., … not just for bitting.
I wouldn’t worry about a bit until he’s willing to put his head down, even when he really doesn’t feel like it.
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I haven’t tried this on a youngster, but with horses who know the idea but have become hard to bit…usually either from ear discomfort or just developing bad habits over time.
I find they’re much happier to reach out to the bit and take it, instead of having it put into their mouths.
I start with the highest value treat that I can find (mint, apple, whatever has value to your horse), let them sniff it and get excited, then put that and the mouthpiece of the bit in one hand. Hold the crown of the bridle on the other hand, and hold the whole thing so the bit+treat is a few inches in front of the horse’s mouth and the cheeks of the bridle are held apart and up, so there’s a clear path to the bit.
Usually horse will try to get the treat without the bit. You have to be willing to lose a few fingers at this point. (Actually I wear heavy gloves (Hands On grooming gloves) which won’t protect you from a real crushing bite but work well for accidental nips, and also nippy dogs, as a side note.) Anyway, I just use my palm holding the bit and the hand holding the bridle to firmly keep the bit above the treat so that the horse has to grab it to get to the treat. Other than that I let the horse do whatever with their head, I don’t try to put my hand closer or keep the bit close to the mouth, just let them try all the ways to get the treat without the bit until they accept that it can’t be done. Don’t do it on a day where you have any appointments scheduled for later.
Eventually they will grab the bit to get the treat (praise them as well as the treat). I don’t lift the bit up at all! Just give enough support to keep it light and keep it from hitting them and let them spit it out.
From there it’s an easy progression…from taking the bit and immediately spitting it out, to lifting up on the bridle a little so they hold the bit for 5, 10, 30 seconds, crown of the bridle over the head…
Also I go from holding the bit and treat, and after a few times with that when they’re less hesitant (but don’t need to wait for perfect) I let them sniff the treat and then just hold the bit out. Usually they ignore the bit entirely and just sniff for the hand with the treat… Let them spend a few seconds not getting the treat and move the treat to the bit, treat only when you take the bit. Next time wait a few more seconds and shake the bit a little to remind them that it’s there before putting the hand under the bit. Etc. I also start adding a verbal cue (go get it!) when I hold the bit out. Just the normal process of separating the reward from the task.
It usually is amazingly quick to the point where you see the click in their brain and they take the bit for the first time without your hand being there (treat immediately, big praise, and then a few extra treats). From there they just get faster. After I’ve trained one to go get the bit instead of receiving it, I never go back to the other way.
I only do this once or twice a day. And don’t give too many treats otherwise (best if you can save a particular type of treat for just this for a while), if they get five mints with dinner then the value of one mint is lower.
I like the Warwick Schiller idea of using a lead line, or use a leather bit. Also you can make a bit hanger from hay string so that you can make it larger, so you don’t have to involve the ears when you start sliding it over them…but you need it short enough to help manipulate the bit when they’re trying to get the treat around it, and also to keep the bit from hitting them when they drop it. I might start with a normal length and only move longer when you’re getting close to pulling over the ears.
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You said you have done mouth work but didn’t describe it other than rubbing his gums. Have you had your fingers in his mouth “playing the piano” on his tongue? When I do this, I hook my thumb under the jaw and slide my fingers in on top of the tongue. If the mouth is dry I wet my fingers. The tongue is prehensile so be ready to slide your fingers out. I also try to work the palette - this time with my fingers on top of the nose and my thumb sliding in under the palette. I liked the suggestion of a hyoid adjustment. Another thought - does he allow you to lift his head so that his nose is skyward? If not do this very gently and slowly - I am 5’1’ so I usually stand in front of the horses chest while I face forward and use both hands under the jaw bones to lift. Once there is a release the resistance is usually gone.
