70s pics when Hunters were Hunters

[GreystoneKC]

A. I can’t even imagine jumping that big sidesaddle! I can’t imagine JUMPING sidesaddle! I can barely sit on a fat pony sidesaddle without thinking I am going to lose my balance!

B. Hunter-eventer-hunter, good post.

C. Good points about the timing of the jumps. I checked that out and while I still think due to some of the things everyone’s been talking about (the issues of rough terrain, galloping, coarser horses) the horses back then often didn’t jump as well as hunters now, I do see how the timing of the photos really doesn’t show off their form in the same way. I still like today’s photo timing better.

D. It’s interesting to me how adament we all are about certain things. It’s funny because for me, I was born in the late 70’s. I didn’t see this kind of stuff. I didn’t start showing at bigger shows until the early 90’s. So I have been basically born and raised on “today’s” hunter style. I think that makes a difference as to what appeals to you, when essentially, it’s all you’ve known. I still fall into the category of “a happy medium” - I’d like to see things opened up and made a bit trappier, but I also truly love the style of today’s hunters along with it.

[allanglos]

Ah, finally found one of me. THis is late 70’s, possibly early 80’s.

[Roxy_SM]

[QUOTE=allanglos;2525137]
Ah, finally found one of me. THis is late 70’s, possibly early 80’s.[/QUOTE]

Is that a running martingale in the hunters?

[Propped_Up]

[QUOTE=Roxy SM;2525644]
Is that a running martingale in the hunters?[/QUOTE]
Twas ok…back in the day. Standings were least acceptable and only used when absolutely necessary.

[Lori]

[QUOTE=ShowMeTheGlory;2515079]
The flat-backed warrior(horse) of the 70’s or the tucked -upped prettyboy(horse) of the 2000’s?[/QUOTE]

Def. the 70’s-today’s hunters would not make it out in the hunt field. Too prissy.:lol:[/QUOTE]

70’s get my vote, too.

[Lori]

[QUOTE=GreystoneKC;2515196]

I guess I am in the small minority in thinking that “hunters” should not have to be “fox hunters” and/or “eventers” at the same time. I love me a good outside course like everyone else, and I am really enjoying my new dabbling in eventing (with my medium hunter pony, mind you), but I really don’t see why our best hunters should have to jump 4 ft stone walls out of 2 foot long grass. LOL[/QUOTE]

…Because that is what hunters are (supposed to be). Outside course, stone wall, solid fence in all sorts of terrain jumping (supposed to represent) fox hunting horses (not eventers).

[farmgirl88]

I do agree that hunters are a lot more “prissy” today than anything else today. When i went to Pony Finals last year, i was very impressed with the course and i actually loved it. My mediumisnt the “prissy type”. She’s fancy…refined…and very pretty to look at…but you take her cross country and she LOVES it and she’ll jump ANYTHING! When we went to PF’s last yr, they had the brush laid up to the poles of the jumps…all of the jumps where HIGHLY decorated all the way to the poles…and the course was nothing like todays “typical” hunter course that goes “single-diagnal line-outside line-single diagnal-outside line”. It was nothing like that. Very challenging, bending lines, singles stuck right in the middle of the end of the ring with only one main appraoch to get to it, and no easy way out…in and outs…it was a very very fun course to ride over…and i’d love to see something more like that today. it really made everyone think…and many of today’s big name pony riders didnt fare as well as i had expected them to do so over the course.

Today’s hunters would deffinately fail on an outside course like that. You mean they had to gallop to jumps and like get their hooves dirty??? ewww gross hahaha. I’d love to see some of the bigger shows show over jumps like that…what a treat it would be…Beautiful photos everyone

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

As someone who showed “back in the day”…I have to disagree. The knowledge bank behind the horse of today would certainly find a way to scout around an outside course. We were no where near the caliber of rider that you see in these times, and I will be the first to admit, our honest, over achieving horses were not even a poor example of today’s hunters. That is what breeding programs are all about, the careful thought process that produces a “star quality” animal. I appreciate all that our horses did for us, but the courses of the past did not include oxers, judges had no idea of length of stride, until it came to the in and out, where one best be WFO to get through many of them in one.

[Madeline]

@harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens;2525773

As someone who showed “back in the day”…I have to disagree. The knowledge bank behind the horse of today would certainly find a way to scout around an outside course. We were no where near the caliber of rider that you see in these times, and I will be the first to admit, our honest, over achieving horses were not even a poor example of today’s hunters. That is what breeding programs are all about, the careful thought process that produces a “star quality” animal. I appreciate all that our horses did for us, but the courses of the past did not include oxers, judges had no idea of length of stride, until it came to the in and out, where one best be WFO to get through many of them in one.

Maybe not all the riders were great, but the Rodney Jenkins’s and the Dave Kelly’s and the Betty Birds and Betty Meisters among others could do it all. They went up and down hill at a good pace over uneven ground , large solid fences, true airy verticals, and unrelated distances. Not to mention that there was NO Schooling over the courses and every class jogged for soundness. There were no pre-sub-beginner-baby-green classes. If you weren’t showing a pony, you were showing over at least 3’6". I suspect that if you took a random crop of the juniors and adults showing in the '60’s and put them on the manicured, measured courses of today, they would not take long to figure out the system. Though the glacial pace and the concept of pretending to be jumped out of the tack all the time may prove difficult for them.

No, Harry, I don’t think the hunters of today are better, and I certainly don’t think the riders are better. Sure, today’s crew could scout around an outside course, but if you think shows run slow now…

I would say that the whole discipline of “hunters” is “different” rather than “better.”

madeline
from the old days when stake classes called for brilliance and only very few kids (and practically no adults) had “trainers”

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

Again, I have to respectfully disagree. All of the shows had schooling, and no fees for schooling. The horses of today really are much more athletic than what we were brave enough to jump “back in the day”. Of course there were great riders then, but how many of the amateurs of that time could jump the 3’6" of today? Most of the fences were verticals, and there was less thought to flow and even pace. Yes, I do miss the outside courses, but the horses of today are certainly wonderful. And yes, I can name all of the fancy old hunters, and found them lovely as well. I just think we have to give progress its due, and respect the show hunter of today for what he does do, not what he did not get to do because he was born 20 years to late.

[MistyBlue]

Okay…this one is someone jumping sidesaddle and without a bridle!
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1090781779049602723PNTEZK

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens;2525773]
As someone who showed “back in the day”…I have to disagree. The knowledge bank behind the horse of today would certainly find a way to scout around an outside course. We were no where near the caliber of rider that you see in these times, and I will be the first to admit, our honest, over achieving horses were not even a poor example of today’s hunters. That is what breeding programs are all about, the careful thought process that produces a “star quality” animal. I appreciate all that our horses did for us, but the courses of the past did not include oxers, judges had no idea of length of stride, until it came to the in and out, where one best be WFO to get through many of them in one.[/QUOTE]

Are you kidding me? No where near the caliber of rider that you see today? I’m sorry, but I was there too, and with NO exceptions, I would choose Rodney, Katie, Leslie, Patty, Charlie, Bobby, Kenny, Joanie, and so forth, over any hunter rider out there today. They were able to INVISIBLY make their very forward going horses stand off and JUMP, softly and beautifully. I saw them on outside courses and in the ring. Counting strides is the worst thing that has happened to the hunters, IMO. These riders rode off of their eye and did it infallibly. If you want to compare today’s horses, who are so carefully orchestrated to the jumps, off of measured strides, then you would have to see them compete in the forward frame that the winners did 25+ years ago. I think you would find that they would jump about the same as the winners did back then. I will grant you there are many more good movers now, but the contrived jump you see can’t be compared horse for horse with what won back then. Maybe they could figure out a way to do an outside course well, but they aren’t doing it, so comparisons aren’t really fair.

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens;2525948]
Again, I have to respectfully disagree. All of the shows had schooling, and no fees for schooling. The horses of today really are much more athletic than what we were brave enough to jump “back in the day”. Of course there were great riders then, but how many of the amateurs of that time could jump the 3’6" of today? Most of the fences were verticals, and there was less thought to flow and even pace. Yes, I do miss the outside courses, but the horses of today are certainly wonderful. And yes, I can name all of the fancy old hunters, and found them lovely as well. I just think we have to give progress its due, and respect the show hunter of today for what he does do, not what he did not get to do because he was born 20 years to late.[/QUOTE]

No, they didn’t. You could not school in the ring, under any circumstances, at an A show.

And how many of the amateurs could jump the 3’6" of today? Again, are you kidding? Amateurs HAD to jump 3’6"; there were no AA back then, and most of the AOs competed against the pros, too. And that was 3’6" of much more solid obstacles, and real verticles.

The American TB has long been considered the premiere equine athlete. Why they have fallen out of favor has many reasons, but a GOOD one could still compete with today’s horses, I assure you.

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

Lauriep, when I said “we” I most certainly did NOT put myself in the same league with Rodney Jenkins. Obviously I did not have their talent or yours, nor did I get to travel in such esteemed circles. If you all want to travel fondly down memory lane, I am not going to stop you, but please do not do it at the expense of the nice, very capable horses that are showing today. There have been great advances in technique, style, and form, thus we see horses jumping from the base of the fence rather than from the galloping distances of years ago. Change happens in all facets of life. Even the traditional world of the hunter ring.

[harryjohnson_Aefvue]

Obviously I have hit a raw note. We were allowed to school at shows in the Northeast, otherwise I never would have made it around at all. And I can remember a fair amount of shows where the 3’6" was more like 3’3", and again, no oxers. Distances were, as you said, ridden off the eye, but with changes in terrain and the long run between jumps, obviously stride counting was not a factor. Enjoy the pictures of times past, and I will continue to enjoy the beautiful rides of today.

[equitationlane]

A/O Hunters

I remember when I was a wee junior riding with Victor (Hugo-Vidal) when he was talking about a “new” division. That would be the A/O division of today. In my mind I thought that would never happen. Guess I was a little wrong with that one. But that was back in the day when, at the “old Garden”, the warmup for the junior weekend was the ladies hunters. (Every bit of 4’.) They did seem a bit LARGE in my mind.

[Lori]

[QUOTE=BenleaSealily10;2525759]
I do agree that hunters are a lot more “prissy” today than anything else today. When i went to Pony Finals last year, i was very impressed with the course and i actually loved it. My mediumisnt the “prissy type”. She’s fancy…refined…and very pretty to look at…but you take her cross country and she LOVES it and she’ll jump ANYTHING! [/QUOTE]

That is because she is a PONY! I LOVE ponies! LOL

[Propped_Up]

[QUOTE=harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens;2525948]
Of course there were great riders then, but how many of the amateurs of that time could jump the 3’6" of today? Most of the fences were verticals, and there was less thought to flow and even pace.[/QUOTE]
Harry, I do not know where you are from but, in California, if an amateur could not jump 4’ - 4’3" there was no where they could show. There were no classes at lower heights. Riders did not count their strides, they rode off their eye, and pace…was a nice hand gallop. There was a huge variety of jumps, unlike the jumps of today that all look a like. There were different types of walls, coops, brush boxes, banks and more…rarely a vertical unless you were at some cheap schooling show that just didn’t have the jumps. Besides, there is really no jump tougher then the straight up and down vertical. The riders of the past, though not as technical, had to be able to ride the hand gallop and the big jump.

As I previously wrote, it is like comparing apples and oranges. Things are different, not necessarily better.

[MagicRoseFarm]

Here is a photo of one of our foundation broodmares at age 4 , Alpenglow, a half sister to Ruxton. Mary Ann Steirt is the rider.
As far as myself, I have only pony pics from eventing
However I was taught an automatic release ( my mom showed jumpers in the late 50’s early 60’s) and also taught this to most of my hunter students once a crest release was easy. You will see an auto release used by alot of European riders to this day. I love it and feel it is a sign of a very independant seat.

[17handponyrider]

I have some of the same memories as Harry. I showed in NJ in the 70’s. We showed over outside courses and they tended to be a loop around a big field. No change of directions. Not many oxers. The heights would be set side by side with the low height on the inside and the tall height on the outside. The long sides of the loop might have four or five fences at such a distance apart that you couldn’t do them in a set number of strides. There always was one in and out (a one stride). To be honest, they didn’t require much skill. You just galloped and jumped. Many of the fences were solid like log piles and stone walls. You could, in NJ at least, school in the mornings on the outside courses. The great riders were the kids that went in the ring and competed over the tough equ courses. I remember hearing about counting strides for the first time when I was in college. It made no sense to me. The only set distances were the one stride and of course you knew if you hadn’t gotten one in the one stride. I have recently competed in hunters after a lifetime of eventing and BOY is that hard!!! Give me a big galloping course. Hell anyone can find a distance at a gallop. Or maybe that’s just me. By the way the courses in NJ in the 70’s went as low as 2’ (it was called maiden).