'80s riders, where did the toe thing come from?

Ahhh. Some fine insight here.

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I remember both trends. The toe thing was indeed because we were supposed to look double jointed with our heels jammed ineffectively down so that our toes practically touched our shins.

I also remember some very painful clinics (Micheal Matz maybe?) where we were taught the barely posting thing. It involved a lot of painful crotch riding. The idea (I think) was an over correction of over posting. We were just supposed to allow the horse to dictate the height of the post, and as most of our horses at the time were flat movers, there wasnā€™t much motion to require you to come out of the saddle.

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Thanks. Iā€™ve no idea if Iā€™m right, just how I always figured it. :woman_shrugging:

I am an 80s junior and we slanted our Fillis so that the outside branch was on our little toe- it allowed you to get your heel down much farther. The bulk of the stirrup was on the ball of the foot, it was just slanted toward the little toe. Equitation involved a jammed-down heel (doesnā€™t it still, sort of? I donā€™t pay attention to that side of the show grounds anymore, so I donā€™t know), and slanting the stirrup made that possible.

Decades later I still find myself unconsciously trying to do that, even though I ride jumpers and have the Tech jumper stirrups and inch-wide lined leathers, which set up is not conducive to the stirrup being slanted on the foot! One of my eventer friends actually commented on it the other day, which cracked me up. I can ride with my slightly-slanted stirrups up to my nice, big stripey pole jumps on my nice, flat, groomed footing, but I donā€™t think it would be a good idea to do it galloping across terrain up to a big trakehner or through a coffin!

I vaguely remember the lowrise posting, which (I think) was supposed to show how smooth and non-bouncy the flat-kneed trot of your hunter was as you were floating by the judge. This is ridiculous, now that I think about it, because my bouncy, daisy stomper jumpers have much easier-to-sit trots than my junior hunters did!

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I remember hacking in jeans, full chaps and docksiders with no socks. We rode with just the toe of the shoe in the stirrrup, on flat little PDNs or Sovereigns. Of course our fingers were open, we were on thoroughbreds.
I have a delightful old Luc Chelderic that gives me a similar feel now, compared to the Barca-lounger that is my SE02. Miss Mare has had a week off and she was chiroā€™d today so when I ride on Sunday, Iā€™m getting out the silicone full seats and the CWD. Sorry, but the first paragraph should tell you my age. :wink:

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I think this is the answer

It was the right for me

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Docksiders and Tretorns! Also sockless.

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I know you all are nostalgic about those saddles, but after coming back to riding as an adult and riding a shark-finned pony with a wicked spook in a very old Hermes pancake at a lesson barn, Iā€™ll take the modern saddles any time.

I remember from my younger days that stirrups treads were also less grippy, and leathers made it harder to stabilize your leg than some of the thicker leathers today. So Iā€™m sure staying on was part of it, as well as a heavy dollop of fashion.

Just for referencing the memory, I Googled images from A Very Young Rider, and you can see the old stirrup placement in this photo IMHO:

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No idea what youā€™re talking about. What toe thing? A good trainer then and now is going to tell you to place your stirrup correctly on the ball of your foot with the stirrup at the correct angle.

A good rider is a good rider. I do appreciate my saddle now compared to then but Iā€™m darn glad I learned how to ride correctly in those non knee roll saddles of the 70ā€™s and now. Too many use their knees to balance and itā€™s not correct nor good for strong rider development.

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I donā€™t know- I think pinching with the knee is just as easy in a PDN-type as it is in a newer couch-type. I remember that being a thing we got yelled at about when I was a kid and all of us had PDN-types. The nice thing about our saddles today is that we can fit them to ourselves and our horses so much better than before. One of my junior hunters eventually had to be put down because of back problems- we just padded the hell out of our saddles with foam keyhole pads and Navajo blankets and whatever, and a good chunk of them probably caused more issues than we ever realized.

And we absolutely angled our stirrups, it was something I saw my entire junior career, coming from a big show barn in the midwest. I could dig up pictures that show it on me, and like I said above I still find myself angling my stirrups automatically. On the other hand, my trainers regularly took our stirrups away from us for sometimes weeks at a time, and I still have that muscle memory, too, which I think is much more helpful for stability in the saddle than stirrup placement!

I had a PDN as a junior and it was fine, but you would have to pry my comfy saddles that fit me and my horses right now out of my cold, dead hands.

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Can concur. That was my sin of choice and I grew up in ā€œold fashionedā€ pancake saddles because they were cheap and I was broke!

You can pry my well fitting saddles with small blocks and knee rolls out of my cold, dead hands. I paid my dues, and have the aches and pains to show for it!

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Ah.

I never pinched in my flat saddle. Because if you pinched, you were doomed. I returned to riding years later, bought a chunk of leather so big that it has its own zip code and immediately started pinching. Giant knee pads ā€” so comfy! The poof-poof whoosh of air as you pinch ā€” so pleasing! I now mostly donā€™t pinch but man, that was tough to stop.

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As someone who rode all three disciplines as a kid it is super easy to pinch with your knees in a PDN if you rode a lot of saddleseat!

Fillis stirrup irons have been mentioned. In retrospect, my lord, they were clunky and heavy! Many a time I ended up with purple bruises on my ankle bones from those things whacking me when we dropped our irons in lessons. That was before tall boots were de rigueur for schooling and there was that sweet spot where your full length chaps didnā€™t quite meet the top of your tennis shoes. (Er, I mean ā€œpaddock boots.ā€ :laughing: )

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One think I noticed eventually about the Fillis stirrups irons.

They got the ball of my feet hurting so bad that I even considered giving up riding horses. Dismounting was an adventure in PAIN when my foot touched the ground. They also caused great pain on the base of my big toes when I rested them against the branches of the stirrups.

I switched to the old fashioned Prussian sided stirrups.

The pain went away and never returned.

Maybe holding the stirrup under the toes was an attempt to avoid this pain.

I gave all my Fillis stirrups away.

After trying to make some sort of crafty item out of them (Toilet paper roll holder? Bird feeder? Christmas decor using a hot glue gun and some fake holly sprigs?) I gave my other set to the lesson barn.

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Hereā€™s kind of an opposite question that Paint_Party made me think of with the intentional heel up comment. Has anyone ever had a dressage trainer tell people to put their heels up? I once showed up to a barn for a trial lesson and being early, watched the one before me. She kept forcing the girl to have her heels up. The heel of the boot was literally keeping her foot from slipping through the stirrup at times. The whole thing was weird. And then I rode and was getting the same instruction, that and some other things about the instruction kept me from going back. She had her reasons but I think what she was trying for could have been instructed with out heels in downright dangerous positions. Not the 80s/90s Like maybe 2010ish.

If you have been a hunter rider, you generally ride with your heels down ā€“ possibly jammed down (I know I do.) Dressage trainers typically want more flexibility in the ankle, and a more level foot. I doubt they wanted you to draw your heels up exactly, but if you think about bringing your heels up, you may help make your foot more level/less jammed.

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