A cold day in hell before they take our horses - NYC carriage press conference

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;7916324]
The world WOULD be better off without humans, and THIS thread proves it! :lol:[/QUOTE]

Right, we can tease about it, but that animal rights extremist was deadly serious.
That amount of absurd thinking is what is scary about some people.

Getting back to the NYC carriage horses, I think that this is and will remain an ongoing battle over that very valuable turf.

That is a battle I don’t see how the carriage horse industry can win and if they do, keep winning, as it surely will keep being fought again and again.
As long as there are considerably more lucrative uses for the real estate they are using, they will keep trying to run them off it.

[QUOTE=Bluey;7916294]
That is a good point to make, that escapes so many, because it makes such a good, catchy “cause of the moment” for propaganda, “saving from slaughter!”

The reality is that only animal rights extremists would believe that banning slaughter makes any sense.
They don’t seem to understand how this world works, that everything alive is alive because something else died, animal or plant.

We are all natural, renewable resources, is how our world evolved.
A gazelle is a natural, renewable resource to lions and tigers and hyenas.
Mice are to most any other out there, even chickens will eat them.

As part of that, we should be mindful of what we use and try not to throw away senselessly so much, as we do.

That is one more reason why, other than in super rich, wasteful cultures as our own, most others over millennia have made that one more use of all kinds of some animals thru slaughter, including of SOME horses.

That, as you say above, doesn’t mean that now everyone that is not following animal rights extremists trying to eliminate all uses of animals is wanting to kill all and everything out there!

Slaughter is just one more process by which we use the natural, renewable resources SOME animals are for humans.
It is a better, more civilized way to use SOME animals than running them down and tearing them apart and eating them half alive, as other predators do in our world.

Slaughter is not inherently either good or bad.
Slaughter is as good or bad as it is regulated, inspected and managed, just as any other out there we do.

To make judicious, proper use of our resources is just the natural order of the world and for humans, slaughter is but one part of how we do that.

Remember, animal rights extremists are against ALL and any use of any animals, including thru slaughter, banning horse slaughter one more handy stepping stone to, eventually, change the world into “one without any animal slaves in human hands”.

As one of them told us right here, on COTH, “the world would be better off without humans”.
As the humans we are, that makes so much sense, does it.

This is really a topic for another thread, we had enough of these before, if anyone wants to do a search for them and become better informed about all this.[/QUOTE]
This needs repeating…in full

Since the anti-carriage protest involved the threat of slaughter…discussions about slaughter are relevant to a discussion regarding the anti-carriage movement.

These “tend” to be women who have the time and money and lack of caring that enables them to toss firecrackers at the horses and hope there is an accident to prove their point. As with any business it is NOT just “the horse”. Carriage drivers must purchase carriages…made for and therfore paid for by owners. That is employment. Leather harness comes from ANIMALS…usually cattle…and again…it provides employment for those who make it. All metals on the haims, harness and attachments come from extraction of ore and refining to make it usable. Metal for farriers to use as protection for the hoof. The tourist who decides to visit New York City AND has an enjoyable experience may return and spend money in restaurants, plays, hotels and regular transporation modes.

The carriage industry is , but one of the many attrractions that invite people people to come and see NYC and also their money helps rebuild the physical and emotional core of the city.

The protestors produce nothing. They are the equivalent of those who own one horse or no horses and tell breeders they must provides lifetime homes and can not use, IF REQUIRED, slaughter.

They are the same ones who scream that we must cull…but them fight to have vetrs refuse to euthanize healthy horses and support slaughter bans.

Sadly…the do as I say and not as I do philosophy has captured America.

It is all about our feelings and how we transfer them to animals to make them our four legged children rather than livestock to be used (and not abused as determined by a subjective thought process)

[QUOTE=cheval convert;7916066]
When the people protesting the carriage horses refer to the horses as “slaves”, their stalls as “cells”, their harnesses as “shackles” and their drivers as “abusers”, they certainly have a larger agenda than not wanting horses on the streets of NYC. Because, if those above reasons are reason enough to ban carriage horses in NYC, then it will be reason enough to keep you from riding your horse because your use of your horse constitutes “abuse” in their book. Listen to their words, they have meaning.
And, if they just believed the horses don’t belong on the streets of New York, why the demand that the horses be sold or donated to people or rescues who agree not to ever use the horses in harness again? For the animal rights activists this is far more than just getting the horses off the city streets, it is about never letting those horses be worked in any fashion what so ever again.
How do those facts jibe with your view?[/QUOTE]

Someone’s been hanging out in Bluey’s basement making tinfoil hats…

:lol:

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7916247]
I am always confused when the topic of slaughter comes up and people start saying others are pro-slaughter.

I do not think anyone is actually pro-slaughter. That is like saying someone is pro-abortion instead of saying they are pro-choice.

I am not against slaughter, that most certainly does not equal pro-slaughter.[/QUOTE]

Ok, do some research on ANY threads discussion slaughter and you will see right away just exactly who is pro-slaughter. They have no problem admitting it so it’s nothing they keep hidden. There is a reason they are called The Slaughterettes.

I can tell you for sure there are at least four people posting on this thread who believe and have repeatedly stated that slaughter is the best use for horses when they are no longer useful.

Well, there certainly is a difference between a kind euthanasia in appropriate circumstances and shipping to slaughter.

[QUOTE=jenm;7916797]
Ok, do some research on ANY threads discussion slaughter and you will see right away just exactly who is pro-slaughter. They have no problem admitting it so it’s nothing they keep hidden. There is a reason they are called The Slaughterettes.

I can tell you for sure there are at least four people posting on this thread who believe and have repeatedly stated that slaughter is the best use for horses when they are no longer useful.[/QUOTE]

I have read most of the slaughter threads and participated in them.

I think in the vast majority of cases people use the term pro-slaughter as a dig, not as an accurate way to describe what people actually are.

Would you like to be described as pro-abortion?

People thinking that slaughter is an acceptable end does not mean they are pushing slaughter, they simply want it as an available option.

I thought we were talking about Carriage horses. When did it jump the shark and become another Slaughter Pro/Con debate ?

I really don’t understand how ones compass on one topic in others eyes makes their opinion on another less then valid.

How they view another facet of equestrianism does not make them lepers unfit to have an opinion in either direction.

Seriously the constant trading jab for jab is sophomoric at best and only results in 3rd outside parties not participating in any facet.

[QUOTE=jenm;7916784]
Someone’s been hanging out in Bluey’s basement making tinfoil hats…

:lol:[/QUOTE]

Ah yes, when confronted with the facts that you cannot dispute, go for the insult. Other than my conclusion that at some point, if this ban goes through we could all be at risk, every other thing in that post is true. But, let’s not have the facts get in the way of a good insult.

Slaughter is an offshoot as that is what the rara’s have stated will happen to all carriage horses unless THEY own them.

They ignore that many of the horses have a great productive life well into their 20’s…and most are retired…yes…some are euthanized and maybe some are shipped to slaughter.

MOST pro slaughter people clearly state AS AN OPTION.nothing more and nothing less.

Those opposing are USUALLY pro womens rights and controls over their bodies, and yet, when it comes to horses, the rule change. ALL must be saved. ALL must have a forever home. ALL must live a cartoon style life…

This is not reality however as with carriage horses…the rara’s know that all they have to do is continue to attack horse ownership and horse use and eventually most people will drop horses as a lifestyle or recreational activity.

No one protests the poor screaming tree that was hacked and sawed apart to make skis.

To get back on topic, Danny Glover took a carriage ride today and gave a nice interview in favor of the industry. He suggested the Mayor and council members actually go and visit the stables, but then we know this all really has nothing to do with the carriage industry.

[QUOTE=Fairfax;7917357]
Slaughter is an offshoot as that is what the rara’s have stated will happen to all carriage horses unless THEY own them.

They ignore that many of the horses have a great productive life well into their 20’s…and most are retired…yes…some are euthanized and maybe some are shipped to slaughter.

MOST pro slaughter people clearly state AS AN OPTION.nothing more and nothing less.

Those opposing are USUALLY pro womens rights and controls over their bodies, and yet, when it comes to horses, the rule change. ALL must be saved. ALL must have a forever home. ALL must live a cartoon style life…

This is not reality however as with carriage horses…the rara’s know that all they have to do is continue to attack horse ownership and horse use and eventually most people will drop horses as a lifestyle or recreational activity.

No one protests the poor screaming tree that was hacked and sawed apart to make skis.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I am the Lorax who speaks for the trees, which you seem to be chopping as fast as you please. But I’m also in charge of the brown Bar-ba-loots, who played in the shade in their Bar-ba-loot suits and happily lived eating truffula fruits. Now, thanks to your hacking my trees to the ground, there’s not enough truffula fruit to go 'round!

[QUOTE=TheLorax;7917551]
Yes, I am the Lorax who speaks for the trees, which you seem to be chopping as fast as you please. But I’m also in charge of the brown Bar-ba-loots, who played in the shade in their Bar-ba-loot suits and happily lived eating truffula fruits. Now, thanks to your hacking my trees to the ground, there’s not enough truffula fruit to go 'round![/QUOTE]

Woot! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmvS4mzWUkQ

I think we should keep the slaughter issue out of the discussion.

It’s a distraction to the real issue.

You don’t have to be pro commercial slaughter to support the carriage horses and their owners. It’s dangerous to confuse the two.

I believe in the humane treatment of animals during their lifetimes. I think the NYC carriage horses have very good lives. They are in excellent physical condition and appear to be in very good spirits.

I do not believe that you should be allowed to abuse your animals or cause them suffering while they are living. I believe that commercial horse slaughter, as it exists in the present time, with the travel, the cattle trucks, the holding pens and the actual process of killing, is cruel to horses. So I don’t support it. But I support humane euthanasia for whatever reason, whenever you want to , whether you do it with drugs or a well placed bullet.

So Bluey, etc. please don’t hand the RARA’s any ammunition by conflating the two issues.

[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;7902160]
My answer and question to bluey;: Why would any one who believes in slaughter want to be on a horse board? There are varying degrees of animal rights activists, as there are people on the other side who love horses but have no problem shipping off of big trucks to slaughter rather than paying for Euthing and then burying the dead.

It’s all a matter of degree. Being far right or far left on any topic, animal or political, makes one an extremist. As I’ve often said, if there had been no Eldridge Cleaver and the other Black Panthers (and yes I met them in Berkeley in the 60s), no one would have listened to MLKIng Jr. (and yes, I met him and marched with him). I believe that there can be a middle ground on most issues. However, if you look at the original carriage horse thread from a year or two agoi, you’ll see that the carriage drivers ridiculed my idea of having the horses in the park.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=NCRider;7917561]I think we should keep the slaughter issue out of the discussion.

It’s a distraction to the real issue.

You don’t have to be pro commercial slaughter to support the carriage horses and their owners. It’s dangerous to confuse the two.

I believe in the humane treatment of animals during their lifetimes. I think the NYC carriage horses have very good lives. They are in excellent physical condition and appear to be in very good spirits.

I do not believe that you should be allowed to abuse your animals or cause them suffering while they are living. I believe that commercial horse slaughter, as it exists in the present time, with the travel, the cattle trucks, the holding pens and the actual process of killing, is cruel to horses. So I don’t support it. But I support humane euthanasia for whatever reason, whenever you want to , whether you do it with drugs or a well placed bullet.

So Bluey, etc. please don’t hand the RARA’s any ammunition by conflating the two issues.[/QUOTE]

Excuse me?

I was responding to the post above when I spoke about slaughter, to someone that was defending animal rights extremists, on COTH, a horse using forum.

Someone else then took my post to use somewhere else for their propaganda and blatantly lied about it as coming from one of the carriage drivers, when they clearly knew it was not.
Fine people that do that, right?

Can’t blame me for what others do, really.

I agree, slaughter doesn’t has anything to do with the carriage horses being banned in NYC.

I knew I liked Danny Glover…

[QUOTE=tbchick84;7917442]
To get back on topic, Danny Glover took a carriage ride today and gave a nice interview in favor of the industry. He suggested the Mayor and council members actually go and visit the stables, but then we know this all really has nothing to do with the carriage industry.[/QUOTE]

According to Eventing Nation, Glover has come out in favor of the horses and the drivers, along with supporting their union connection, one of the best things the carriage drivers have going for them.

I had dinner with my husband in Boise (Idaho) this past Friday and I was happily surprised to see a horse drawn carriage working the downtown core. In a day and age where so many cities are considering banning them, there are locations where they are just being introduced.

It looked like the horse was happy in his work, and he sure seemed fit and in good condition. It was a pleasure to see.
Sheilah

[QUOTE=IdahoRider;7919615]
I had dinner with my husband in Boise (Idaho) this past Friday and I was happily surprised to see a horse drawn carriage working the downtown core. In a day and age where so many cities are considering banning them, there are locations where they are just being introduced.

It looked like the horse was happy in his work, and he sure seemed fit and in good condition. It was a pleasure to see.
Sheilah[/QUOTE]

Nice!!!

A lovely pair of gray Percherons is giving shoppers rides for FREE, compliments of the Downtown Merchants’ Association of Westport, CT today (and last weekend, too!) Very popular, no hecklers! :yes:

Here’s video taken yesterday, showing attractive, healthy horses bringing joy to people. The “Grinch” also taking video – looking for anything contrary to regulations – is none other than Liz Forel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWTFoqOdutg&feature=youtu.be