Someone should send him this:https://ayankeeinparis.com/2019/09/1…thoroughbreds/ taken from another thread on this forum. Though, if he knows nothing of horses as they say, he won’t understand.
The media today is RULED by drivel and trash, drama and tragedy. Because, unfortunately, that’s how one scores the most clicks, and therefore the highest ad revenue. Truth, honesty, facts, none of those have a damn thing to do with it anymore, let alone fairly informing the public.
Salacious and unverified is what the public demands–disturbing, disgusting, frightening, generative of faux “outrage” and hypocritical “activism,” with facts jam-fit to service the narrative. The general public, who know nothing of horses but enjoy thinking the worst of the human race, shed a tear and blast off a check to PETA.
They just don’t know any better.
I’m convinced that the human species has so few REAL problems today relative to prior ages of mankind, we’ve taken to making them up for the greater glory of moral panic, virtue signaling and expressions of public outrage.
For attention. Like squalling toddlers in the grocery store.
The single biggest thing that can be done to suppress this is to NOT give the crap they’re shovelling wider exposure. To coin a phrase, let it “die in darkness!”
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Don’t be silly. Toddlers don’t squall in grocery stores nowadays - they’re all on Prozac.
I don’t think the general public wants to be convinced by facts. Even posters on this BB don’t seem to believe the facts when they are told to them.
It has been conclusively proven that horses that are put into training early and race at 2 stay sound longer than those who wait until they are older.
Nearly all racetracks in the U.S. are in urban areas on limited amounts of land, which is why most racehorses aren’t turned out. Interestingly most horse show grounds are in suburban and/or rural areas and yet horses on the show circuit don’t get turned out for months on end, either. Nobody seems to think that’s a terrible thing. I often wonder why TBs–who receive arguably the best care in the world–are held to a different standard.
There are actually lots of good options for TB retirement. Unfortunately people get lazy and don’t utilize them. However the TB community has taken steps to remedy that. Now when you register a TB, or buy one at a sale, or race one, money is taken out for TB Aftercare, which will bring about new and more comprehensive rehoming programs. These efforts have been pretty visible–if only people cared to pay attention.
I wish the general public would be convinced by these facts, but I know that’s a vain hope especially since we can’t even get other horsemen on COTH to listen and believe us.
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The article has been picked up by Longform so now an even wider pool of people will read it.
Perception is reality, unfortunately, and the anti-racing side has a lot of ammunition right now. To the general public who know nothing about horses, a dead horse is a dead horse. They have no idea that a horse can just as easily break a leg at home standing in a field. Or have any clue what colic is or laminitis. And they won’t care.
It’s extremely difficult from a PR perspective to say “well yes, there are a thousand dead horses, but really only 800 count!” You’re still admitting the sport you are trying to promote regularly kills hundreds of horses. And it gets even worse when the public realizes many of those horses are in trouble because of unscrupulous trainers who are not putting the health and welfare of their horses first.
Those of us on this board obviously deeply love horses, and would be devastated if we lost one at the track or at home. But all of us who were or are in the track industry know full well there are trainers out there that view their horses as a means to make money and don’t care about their longevity or what happens to them once they are done with them. They run ticking time bombs all the time, hoping to get one more check, or better yet someone to claim the problem and get it off their payroll. How do you police those trainers? How do you get them out of the sport?
Without a national governing board, without equal rules and regulations across the states and enforcement of sanctions or suspensions, it’s too easy for bad trainers to keep getting away with running drugged or injured horses. With the sport in its current state, it’s all too easy for anti-racing activists and PETA to churn out articles that have plenty of truths in them, no matter how much the pro-racing side wants to pretend that they don’t.
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Horse down on the track at Santa Anita right now
With all the deaths at Santa Anita race 8 now and all the deaths at Saratoga this year, time to stop the killing. And time to stop with the excuses. Let people race cars and risk their own lives. 2 fractures a dead horse.
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And there was the horse recently at Thistledown in Ohio who had two gate guys on his tail and they ripped out the horse’s tail. It died. Anybody here want to step up and defend that? Or blame PETA for that?
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@RiverCityRider Honestly I get all my racing news here. Where else can you find such a wealth of information and analysis from people in the industry who take the time to answer questions. I do not know a whole lot about racing compared to many people here, but they are kind enough to explain the complexities of the issues.
I love racing. It’s heartbreaking what has happened at Santa Anita. I also know without racing I wouldn’t have my mare. Without racing we wouldn’t know as much as we do about equine medicine. There is a a lot of good in racing because of the hard working people that do great things everyday. But that doesn’t get you a headliner.
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Link or something? On face value no one would defend that. Also one case doesn’t make it the norm despite what you a PETA would like to have people think.
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I wanted to mention in my first post, an attempt to study fragile foal syndrome was done by UC Davis to see if that contributed to the breakdowns at Santa Anita. A while back there was a huge and sometimes contentious thread about fragile foal syndrome in Warmbloods. Lots of people freaking out that someone outted their stallions that were carriers. While the study would be too difficult, for the Warmblood population, at least racing made an attempt.
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There is no link to that. You think it was publicized? You think the track self reported it?
You think I belong to PETA because I dare to criticize something in racing? This is what is so frustrating about posting on the racing forum and why I stopped doing it (until I broke my own rule).
I agree ripping off a horse’s tail in the gate and having it die isn’t the norm, thank goodness. But tailing horses in the gate is. Beating the shit out of them to get in the gate is, when the gate is at the 6 furlong gap on the other side of most tracks’ grandstands not in view of the people on the tarmac watching In person. Surely you know that when the gate crew is having ‘trouble’ loading a horse the camera moves away from the gate so viewers can’t see what is happening? The norm. Maybe if all that wasn’t the norm, a horse wouldn’t have died from getting its tail ripped out. Horses who are sore and not wanting to load or stand would not be beat up or tailed, they would be scratched. (Of course some horses act out by or in the gate because they are claustrophobic or have some similar issues but in my experience the majority of the horses who develop gate issues are sore, and, at any rate, the fix for any legitimate gate problem a horse may have does not involve tailing or lunge whips).
Are you a racetracker? It might interest you to know that many racetrackers are sickened daily by what they see and want things to be better. They hope the horse that they see hobbling around the track in the morning will be scratched by the track vet in the post parade but it’s not. They hope a particular horse doesn’t run again but it does, again and again. I had an owner insist his sore mare run unless I thought she was ‘going to snap her leg off’. I had a racing secretary call me for a horse once when he needed a race to go and when I told him she was on the vets list he told me it was no problem he could get her off the list. I don’t know why I am writing all this. I am just so sick of the crap that goes on and the silence and the attitude of ‘you’re either with racing and keep your mouth shut or you belong to PETA and are crazy/stupid/don’t understand horses.’
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So you saw it? I see my typo, I meant you and PETA, wasn’t calling you a PETA. My apologies.
I feel you are in a perfect position to make a difference. Say no. Report what you see.
If you want to be taken seriously, a little less heat and a little more light would be helpful. I googled the Thistledown tail thing–in part because I don’t know what Hercules actually tore a tail off a horse-- and I came up with the Horseracing Wrongs site. That seriously is your source? I didn’t click on it because I didn’t want to send any traffic to that jerk nor am I ghoul who wants to see a whole bunch of broken legs. However, I have RTN with unlimited replays of every track in the country. Give me the date and race number and I will watch that race and tell you what’s on video. I’m going to guess that reality might be a little less dramatic although starting gate accidents can be quite tragic.
Are there bad people in racing? Yes! There are bad, greedy awful people in every walk of life and in every equestrian sport. If you truly are as horrified as you sound, don’t be a drama llama in here. Fire that owner! If you are a groom or a hotwalker in a barn acting like that, fire yourself. Go to a different barn. Report cruelty factually with dates, times and names. Don’t just come on here and bellow “How do you defend this?” How do YOU defend sticking around with those folks? Because I have been in racing and breeding 20 years and I’d be gone.
I’m not someone who thinks every critic of racing is a PETA mole. However if someone doesn’t want to be lumped in with the over the top, short on facts, long on emotion hysterical, they need to be measured and factual in their criticism. “Ripping off a horse’s tail and letting it die” Is that even possible? That’s why a link would be nice. On the other hand, I have seen horses kill each other and themselves by running into solid objects, kicking each other and. thrashing when they get caught on something.
My other thought is why do certain people only express themsleves about the sport when something bad happens? Did you miss San Luis Rey? How about all of the accredited after care charities? How about all of the racetrackers – and they are numerous–who retire horses on their own dime?
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I’m going to go out on a limb and point out that racing has created “punchy” and others like her/him by operating behind a “shroud of mystery” for decades.
Once upon a time, most everyone owned working horses and knew the realities of caring for them. With the advent of the automobile and the suburbanization of the general population, people forgot those realities. Horse contact was limited to show and pleasure animals, and husbandry of such animals departed dramatically from that of the working horse.
But here is where I believe racing failed itself: when the general public (horse loving or not) started asking the forgotten questions about racing and racehorses, the industry as a whole took a “it’s none of your concern” approach. The peons couldn’t possibly understand what happens behind the scenes when caring for millions of dollars worth of horse flesh, and racing doesn’t need those peons anyway. All racing needs is their affluent owners and loyal bettors, so you don’t deserve an opinion if you don’t fall into either category.
Then those affluent owners and loyal bettors of a bygone era started dying off. With the general public more or less alienated, little new blood has interest in the sport. Societal pressures too numerous to list cause the cost of horse racing continue to rise. But instead of embracing the general public, racing’s answer was to put all their eggs into slots! gambling! coupling! state funds! Also, in desperation to retain those remaining, some parts of the industry turned a blind eye to some of their insiders’ bad decisions, and doubled down on the tight-lipped nature of racing in a time when the world demanded transparency.
Meanwhile, the general public has developed their own, negative narrative of what they think happens in horse racing. Supported by facts out of context, and with few industry voices willing to take the time to counter those facts, that negative and incorrect narrative has become as good as true in the minds of the general public.
The man who would kill horse racing is not an internet troll keeping a death count. The men who killed horse racing are employees of the very industry they are trying to save. Can we please just drop the behind-the-scenes act that is killing our sport and just go public? Five or six posters on COTH (and similar voices in other outlets) shouldn’t be responsible for correcting the plethora of public misconceptions that have spun out of control.
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Texarkana, I agree with your entire post.
But I must drop back to punchy’s post because I cannot physically see how it is possible for that to happen. So…two gate guys were holding a horse’s tail when the staring gate opened? Where were they standing at the time? Must have been behind the stall because they wouldn’t both fit inside and the starter wouldn’t start the race if they were there. So they both decide to hold the horse’s tail. For what purpose? Were they trying to commit suicide?
The gate opens. The horse leaps forward. Horse weighs maybe 1100 pounds. Two guys maybe 400 pounds for both of them. Somehow their lesser weight (plus the Herculean grip they must have on the hair) is enough to rip an entire appendage off a large muscular animal. Meanwhile during this maneuver, neither one of the gate guys is slammed into the back of the gate in front of them and killed. Eleven hundred pounds of fit, fast racehorse moving in the opposite direction but they are somehow able to both hold on and stand their ground–also while not getting kicked. [I’m having trouble picturing this]
It apparently doesn’t occur to either of the gate guys to simply let go. They must have not only ripped out the horse’s tail hair but also the bone? Because otherwise how did the horse die? [Again, trying to picture the massive amount of inhuman strength it would take to do such a thing]. Did the gate guys break their ribs and arms and dislocate their shoulders? Because surely the horse isn’t the only one who would have been injured in this maneuver?
I, too, would like to see a reply of this race. We have the track. All we need is the date and race number.
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@LaurieB that’s exactly why I asked for a link. It seems very far fetched. I don’t think the race information will be forth coming.
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I agree that the story as told is bizarre and unimaginable. It would be interesting to know if this incident really happened and if so, what the actual facts of the case are. Two people cannot pull a horse’s tail from its body.
punchy, you are talking to race trackers. Could be we train and race at very different tracks than you do.
Where my horses run beating the shit out of a horse to get it in the gate is not the norm. Not in the morning and not in the afternoon. And yes, I’ve watched horses loaded in person hundreds of times. I also wouldn’t assume that a horse who’s reluctant to load is sore. And the tailing thing you’re talking about is news to me. (Have seen a gate guy grab a tail, pull it to one side and use it like a handle to push/propel a horse forward–which is not what you’ve described.) More often two gate guys will lock arms behind the horse and propel it that way.
Are there abuses in horse racing? Sure. Just like everywhere else. That doesn’t mean there aren’t also a lot of people who are trying their best to get it right.
In horseracing–as in any horse discipline–it’s up to the horse’s connections to be its best advocate. Surround yourself with good people who know better–and do better–than the ones you’ve used in your examples. I hope you dumped the owner who insisted you run a sore horse. I hope you gave the racing secretary an earful. Somehow I suspect you probably didn’t. Instead you came here to yell at us.
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I have to wonder whether the horse perhaps got his tail caught in the gate.
I applaud the author of that article for taking on such a difficult topic. If you don’t have journalists who ask difficult questions, you won’t have any reason to change the sport. In order to determine the scope of the problem, you need data. How many fatalities are due to breakdowns? How many are related to training? How many fatalities occur at home, away from the track?
I wish they had a horse passport system and followed all horses from birth to death. See how many end up at slaughter or are euthanized due to injuries obtained in training or racing. That would show a more accurate picture of the problem. Right now, his research is only guessing at the scope of the problem. Being in the national spotlight is a good thing, as it pressures the industry to regulate itself better.
”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹”‹Not all racehorses get a fairy tale ending. Having organizations to rehome those horses is great, but by the time these horses are 4 yrs old, their bodies have significant wear in tear. I don’t want an x racehorse because i don’t need a pasture ornament i will need to feed for the next 20 years. What happens if the horse goes lame by age 10? As an owner it is heartbreaking to euthanize an otherwise healthy horse just because it has a lameness issue.
My old thoroughbred was lame by age 7, her lameness was managed for several years and she was fully retired from riding by age 17. I’ve been managing her as a pasture pet for 9 years now. Most people would have euthanized by now because it is expensive to maintain a “useless” horse, especially one with health issues. She is lucky she has me. Most horses are not that lucky.
Most people do not want an ex-racehorse. Similar to the mustang issue. The market is flooded with good horses. For $1000, i can get a broke horse and not deal with the issues involved in rehabbing an ex-racehorse. My riding instructor specialised in rehabbing ex-racehorses, but they often did have lameness issues of some kind. She did it because she loved the horses.
The racehorse industry and the breeders supporting that industry are contributing to the horse slaughter and unwanted horse problem. And how often do those horses get abused during training, or breakdown and get discarded? Everyone talks about only breeding quality horses. The good breeders stop or limit their breeding, but the thoroughbred farm down the street will still have 60 foals on the ground every single year.
I wouldn’t cry if horse racing was outlawed, but I would prefer to see them make substantial changes. Stricter drug testing, more permanent bans on trainers that violate the rules, some national oversight board to oversee that trainers don’t just switch to a different state if they violate the rules. Stricter rules on whip use, etc. I think there is a great deal more that can be done to improve equine welfare.
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