A Question About Age in Jumpers

[phippsie62]

Hello, everyone: I wrote a few days ago about beginning research toward finding a 1.30M horse for my daughter. We aren’t ready to search out individual horses to try–won’t be doing that until we’re confident we know exactly what we want and have a realistic budget for that, with money in hand. And so a question, derived from a thread called “Am I Asking Too Much?” in which several responders confirmed what I’ve begun to suspect–that seven-year-olds may be jumping 1.30M, but their flatwork isn’t finished, and may be FAR from finished.

We had been thinking that a 7-8yo would be the perfect age, and that a 10yo going at 1.30-1.45 would be nearing the end of his/her career. Maybe that isn’t true? Of course it all depends on the individual horse, but as a general rule, if we bought a 10 yo already showing at 1.30 or more, with good x-rays, etc., could we have a reasonable chance of getting a couple or three years of mileage at the bigger jumps?

When our first horse sustained a proximal suspensory injury just as he started going great and we had a buyer in love with him, we ended up selling him to that buyer for $1. So we are just figuring that whatever we spend is essentially money we’ll never see again. Still, I’d rather not buy a horse at what, for us, would be a fancy price and then find ourselves very shortly with a horse that has to back down to little jumps or be retired altogether. But my daughter needs a “steady Eddie,” a horse that can help her up the levels. So do I want to look for a horse maybe 10 years old who’s been showing for a year or two in the 1.30s or higher?

I wish we could rely on our trainer. She has many virtues, but matching horses to clients isn’t one of them–so we’re on our own, green beans in hunter-jumper world, with only our research skills–and places like this forum–to help us out. Any advice would be much appreciated!

[gottagrey]

It’s going to be hard to find a 7-8 y/o with a solid record at 1.30-1.45mm and one that does might end up giving you some maintenance issues in a couple of years. Not saying they aren’t out there but a 7 y/o with a solid performance record could mean lots of campaigning at a young age - note key words are “solid record/ performance”

There are plenty of horses competing a top levels well into their teens - look at Flexible he may have finally retired in the last 2 years or so - but was still jumping around GP in is 20’s. Many event horses are competing in Advance trials in their upper teens .

With horses there is no guarantee that young = long term soundness. Pick a wider age range for for your daughter’s goals. If she wants to compete at 1.30+mm she’ll need a horse who’s been competing at that level successfully and possibly not a horse she’ll have to get to that level - i’ve seen plenty of people get horses that are green and end up spending 2-3 years trying to get to the level they want to compete at vs getting right in there. Have you considered leasing?

[ladyj79]

Exactly what @gottagrey said. I know speed horses who have been campaigning in the 1.30-1.40 classes for years and are in mid to late teens.

and I know young horses who never jumped a fence, are barely under saddle, with xrays you wouldn’t touch.

I’ll also suggest you don’t need perfect xrays though to have a good sound horse. I know a handful of horses with chips for instance who are sound and competing at 130 at 11,12 and have been for years.

you just never know.

[foursocks]

I agree, don’t go for youth AND experience, at least not experience outside of the Young Jumpers Series. Longterm soundness is always a gamble, but if you buy something older and experienced that vets well and simply needs some of the usual maintenance of an older show horse, I think that is your best bet.

A few years ago I bought a coming five year old who had been showing all year in the YJ classes in Argentina, so he was solid in terms of understanding how to be a show horse and doing simple courses, but he was nowhere near experienced in the sorts of courses expected of an ammy horse. We did the Low AAs and then the High AAs and we would be now doing the Low A/Os (1.2m) except I keep hurting myself. He turned 8 in October and while with a good pro (um, instead of ammy me) he could certainly be jumping much bigger courses, I am actually fine with our slow progress. I want him to be sound and jumping the High A/Os (and maybe some mini prix!) with me well into his teens.

So, you can either buy experience in a nice, solid, older ammy horse, or your daughter can build it in herself with a younger horse. But she won’t get to 1.3m very quickly (or successfully) with a really young horse, and you say she needs a steady eddy. Something that has been campaigning successfully at that height and is a steady eddy is most likely going to be older. One more anecdotal story of what older horses can do: my TB is turning 19 in a month and is happily eventing with a kid right now. They are moving up to Training this year, and all I do to keep him sound is give him Pentosan every month and yearly hock injections. Now, that isn’t 1.3m (Training is 1.05m), but he has to gallop over solid XC fences and do pretty intense dressage work and he shows no signs of slowing down.

[Xctrygirl]

So maybe I’m a glutton for punishment but a couple questions spring to mind for me.

1. What level is your daughter competing at now?

2. Would you not consider leasing a ‘been there, done that’ type so she could gain some experience without the huge depreciation you mentioned?

3. I’m all for getting the right horse and food deals etc, but if you don’t trust your trainer to at least be a part of the search process (not saying them finding you a horse, but at least going with you to look at the ones you find) why then do you trust them to teach your daughter and said horse to the best of their ability? I mean there should be some awareness that the trainer will need to be able to help develop the horse as well as your daughter. So (imho) they absolutely should be heavily involved.

Emily

[ladyj79]

I always owned. I had a superb show pony but who was purchased as a two year old when i was seven. Developing him with a couple trainers was very enriching for me as a kid. After purchasing a few dud horses, i ended up with an amazing show hunter. For one season. And then he was done, and I was back to a four year old.

I would not trade my experience for anything and I remain very good with developing young horses to a certain point.

I was blessed with some truly exceptional trainers and very nice horses for my area.

but when I advise young riders these days I have to say if you can find really nice horses to lease and learn on, that is the best and safest course of action.

I have two nice horses, both are leased out to friends, and I’ve been riding other people’s horses here and in Europe, because even as an adult not owning can be preferable; with more flexibility comes the possibility of more and better learning opportunities.

if you’re in an area where these nice horses simply aren’t available to lease, then you might have to buy, but I would definitely look to lease for your daughter first.

[equisusan]

I’d suggest a horse moving down from the Grand Prixs rather than a youngster that may have already done too much too soon. Another option are those horses that scope out at 1.45m or 1.50m. They don’t have the scope to save you if you really screw up but really people should be jumping the height they can find the jumps at. If you need to be saved more than just rarely you are jumping the wrong height.

[hunterrider33]

I think a horse that’s 10-12 is just entering its prime. It has good (hopefully anyways) mileage, should have a good foundation on the flat, and should definitely have a few years left!
My jumper whose now retired showed to 1.30 until he was 15 and that was only because he got a suspensory injury.
There are horses on the Olympic teams that are well into their teens.
if you have a good budget (6 figures) you could find something that’s already been doing the junior jumpers or potentially a GP horse that needs to move down, however then I feel like your looking at a 13-14yr old (not always the case though). Find something with a show record here in the US and if it has miles with a junior you’ll have an idea how it handles mistakes and a non pro ride.

Honestly if your trainer isn’t good at matching horses to riders you may want to seek advice from another trainer. Plenty BNT will have multiple horses in this category and can usually line up quite a few to try for you at other barns as well.

[supershorty628]

A lot of this depends on your daughter’s experience and current ability, but I agree with those who think maybe looking for a horse on its way down from the bigger stuff if your daughter is new to that level. A 7-8 year old jumping that level with good flatwork and that can take a joke (if that’s needed) is going to be somewhat of a unicorn.

And 10-12 is nowhere near the end of a career if the horse is managed well (and you’re lucky). I just retired my mare last year at 20 and she was still showing in the 1.45m classes.

[dags]

It’s a big red flag to me that you are searching for a 1.30m horse and your trainer wants no part of the process, and that you are green beans.

So I’m going to go waaaay out on a limb and guess your daughter is nowhere near ready to show this height. Your daughter’s current level of experience is quite key to this conversation.

A lot of parents really love the idea of 1 horse to go All The Way, but that rarely works out (unless you have a ton of money).

More likely your 1.30m horse is the one after this one. If your daughter’s not jumping at least 3’6" right now I would first focus on a safe 1.15m-1.25m horse (and even that could be ambitious, again depending on your budget).

A 1.30m horse for a junior is actually a 1.40m horse. That extra scope is there to save everyone’s life.

When you are ready for that level (and maybe you are! Again, I’m just thinking out-loud from my limb) you’ll notice this magical shift when you get to the upper levels of the jumper ring - 10 is not old. It’s a beautiful thing. I wish it was like that at every level, but it’s not. When your horse is tasked to jump 1.40m for a living folks suddenly get real conservative with things like lunging and number of classes shown each week. A competitive 10 y.o. jr/am 1.30m horse is still quite a bit of money, and will be until it’s at least 12 or older.

[phippsie62]

Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful replies. My daughter is an adult who returned to horses about four years ago. As a kid she got a lot of good training in classical dressage, but none in jumping. Her first jumper had virtually no training, much less a show record, and suffice it to say that many tears were shed in the process of getting that horse going. But with the help of the assistant trainer, she got him going so well that eventually she half-leased him to a novice rider who did quite well with him at local shows. Looking back on it, she credits that horse with teaching her how to “feel.” However, his scope was limited to 3’3"–3’6", and she’d frankly like to move up with a horse that knows his job from the get-go. (And actually have fun while learning!)

I still encourage her riding and try to help from the sidelines because she’s so committed. Her goal is to be a complete horsewoman. She especially does not want to be the client who shows up to ride and that’s it. Being at a barn where the training can be a bit disorganized is certainly a drawback in many ways, but it means you have to do a lot for yourself–read everything you can lay your hands on, think hard, attend clinics, and ask a lot of questions.

Where we live is not exactly horse country, so training facilities are very far apart. Though this barn is not ideal, it’s only five miles from her house, which means she can get there five days a week without a long commute, and in the winter when everyone is snowed in, she can put on her ice spikes and walk. (Which she did when her guy had a hind suspensory injury and needed hand-walking.)

Right now, she is riding and jumping a number of horses at her barn, and has done 1.30M courses on capable horses at home, but has never showed at that level.

As I explain all this I’m beginning to feel embarrassed. We made a dumb mistake with that first horse–she should have bought–or perhaps leased–a schoolmaster. And here I am, still being a horse mom to a “kid” in her forties. But heck, I love, love, love the horses–always wanted to ride when I was little and never got to. So it’s sort of a mother-daughter project.

I so appreciate you responders who took time to answer a question that’s probably so basic and common-sense that it’s not very interesting to experienced horse people. I will read over your comments and take them to heart…and perhaps start a thread about leasing, which is one more thing I know zip about. Thank you again!