A vent about some cat owners...

[HeatherCK11]

The life of outdoor cats is hazardous. For those living in rural settings, I give more liberty. However, feral or indoor/outdoor cats in residential areas are a nuisance, at best.

I love cats. Have 3, and each one is a feral catch. Not one is allowed outside. They are healthy, happy, and receive gross amounts of attention.

My neighborhood has a large feral cat population that I’m personally going to have to address (again). Many are unhealthy, and the Tom’s are constantly fighting. Lately they have taken to spraying the perimeter of my house and destroying my screens.
Come to find a lady one street over is feeding the cats but refuses to trap and alter. Spectacular.

I am a cat person…and dog too. Not happy about either running loose. Had that problem come to a head on my doorstep 2 years ago when loose dogs cornered a feral on my doorstep and proceeded to maul the poor thing. Nothing like having to power wash kitty off your front entry way :(.
It was so upsetting that I went to bat trapping the cats. Raised/adopted a few kittens, euthanized debilitated, and kept one, and sent other adoptable ones to local shelters.

I work in the veterinary profession. Fortunately, the hit by cars and dog attacks are much less than they used to be in years past. A person only has see that once to understand the odds of survival in either incidence are so slim. It is heartbreaking when they come in. Some, we manage to patch up but most… we talk them through the last moments of their life. The odds just suck.

[Bicoastal]

Cats are domestic pets, not a natural part of the ecosystem

[QUOTE=RPM;7752468]
I LOVED having neighborhood cats around to keep the native songbirds away from my house! I didn’t want the kitties to kill the birds, but hey, that’s the way nature is. Cats prey on songbirds, raptors prey on cats.[/QUOTE]

Cats are domesticated pets so I think they are not part of how nature works. Many outdoor cat owners believe cats killing birds is the circle of life but those cats aren’t supposed to be there. We humans domesticated and bred them as our pets then turned them loose on native species. The pet outdoor cat population devastates native wildlife.

[PaintPony]

[QUOTE=Pipkin;7751910]
But see, I think being an ‘indoor cat’ is no life at all for a feline. Same as keeping a horse stabled 24/7, it just doesn’t sit well with me.

So I guess it’s all about perspective.[/QUOTE]

Oh please! :rolleyes: I’ve had indoor cats all my life and not a single one of them suffered from a lack of “nature”. Domestic cats are really not meant to be outdoors anyway. There are just too many ways for them to get killed. Outdoor cats have a 50% shorter lifespan. (or something like that - I’m too lazy to look it up ;))

My mom and I both have cats that learned to walk on a leash so that they can get outdoors. My cat can take it or leave it, but mom’s cat demands to be taken out every day. She’s the kind of cat that would not come back home if mom just let her roam free. Sure she would rather be outside - my best friend’s kids would rather eat candy for every meal, but that’s not what’s best for them.

I’m not saying that some cats wouldn’t rather live outside, or be happier that way. I’ve known many barn cats that were perfectly content. But if you choose to keep cats that way then you have to accept the risk that they are going to get hit or eaten. That’s not always fair to the cat. :no:

[Pipkin]

But we can’t ask the cat, can we? So all it is, is your opinion, which happens to differ from mine.

[Arcadien]

I used to think the life of an outdoor cat was worth the risks, until I found one of sweetest girls dead, degloved from tail to half way up her abdomen, having managed to drag her mutilated & suffering body up to my front porch steps to die. I have no idea what horrible accident happened to her (car? escaped from animal attack? it was my worst nightmare that a cruel person could have done this on purpose?..) but it was the most horrible thing I’ve ever seen and I’ll never risk it again. I had before lost one on the road, and several that just disappeared - somehow I was able to justify those as “life of an outdoor cat” but this… no I can’t bear the thought of what that little girl went through. Please protect your kitties.

[Pipkin]

Anthropomorphising, sorry!! The world is dangerous - when I go for a walk I risk being run over, falling down, getting murdered, catching a disease, getting struck by lightning. I’d still rather go outside and take the risk than sit indoors all day and be ‘safe’.

So either way we are making these huge decisions for our pets, and either way we are compromising their standard of living. Around here most people have cat flaps, so the cat can chose. Funnily enough, none choose to stay indoors all the time, which to me answers the question.

If the cat has a run, or is amenable to being taken for walks, that reduces the issue somewhat. Imagine if someone had a dog that they never let outside the house, even into the garden or out for a walk? That wouldn’t be okay… And I feel cats are much more independent and prone to roaming than dogs. I wouldn’t judge the owner of a cat who decided to keep it indoors, even though personally I don’t really feel it’s right, so why do these people feel it’s okay to judge the owners of free roaming cats? Like I said, we can’t ask the cat, so it’s really guesswork on the part of the owner as to which is the more ethical approach.

I agree that the songbird thing is a massive shame. Would cat-proof nesting boxes be an option?

[PaintPony]

[QUOTE=Pipkin;7752864]
But we can’t ask the cat, can we? So all it is, is your opinion, which happens to differ from mine.[/QUOTE]

Even if the cat could answer, would it know what is in its best interest? Just like kids, we have to make decisions for our pets since they are not capable of that themselves. I do not currently know anyone with a free ranging cat (other than barns). I guess maybe it’s a cultural difference? (And never walking your dog is COMPLETELY different than keeping an indoor cat - that’s like comparing apples to oranges!)

My neighbor’s dog would prefer to lay on my back porch instead of his own yard. I think it’s cute, but not in his best interest since it means he busts through the electric fence and crosses the road to do so.

I’m not saying every single cat needs to live inside. I just disagree with you that indoor cats are somehow deprived of a good life. Poor Stella, so abused: https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/p180x540/68788_10151034182595213_822558329_n.jpg?oh=7d84a5c5d52e705c0f49fec582c4c6f3&oe=548E8BB4

[Pipkin]

[QUOTE=PaintPony;7752918]
(And never walking your dog is COMPLETELY different than keeping an indoor cat - that’s like comparing apples to oranges!)[/QUOTE]

But whyyyy?

[Windsor1]

[QUOTE=PaintPony;7752861]
But if you choose to keep cats that way then you have to accept the risk that they are going to get hit or eaten. That’s not always fair to the cat. :no:[/QUOTE]

Neither, in my opinion, is a lifetime of confinement in the name of safety. There are LOTS of things that people can do to make a cat’s environment stimulating. I don’t think most people actually do them. Not to the extent they should, anyway.

That’s not to say I would allow any cat out any time it wanted for as long as it wanted unsupervised. You have to weigh lots of factors, including how likely the cat is wander far away, proximity to dangerous roads, presence of loose dogs, etc. I housesat for my brother over the weekend and would probably not allow a cat out if I lived there (he has two dogs and a cat) because he lives right on a road that, while not heavily traveled, probably has a 45 MPH speed limit. That exceeds what to me (and the standard will vary from person to person) is an acceptable level of risk.

My parents, on the other hand, live at the end of what’s basically a long parking lot flanked by townhouses. An environment I would consider reasonably safe for a cat.

I may, at some point, change my mind like Arcadien did in the wake of some horrific experience. That’s certainly possible. But until then, I’ll weigh the risks of the particular cat in the particular environment and allow them some outdoor time if at all possible.

[Abbie.S]

[QUOTE=Windsor1;7752958]
Neither, in my opinion, is a lifetime of confinement in the name of safety. There are LOTS of things that people can do to make a cat’s environment stimulating. I don’t think most people actually do them. Not to the extent they should, anyway.[/QUOTE]

I certainly agree, with both statements. I don’t think anyone is saying that keeping kitty locked away from the world is all that great either. But it is significantly safer, and the reality is the vast majority of cats do just fine not seeing the outside world. Domestic cats, for the most part (there are some breeds that do not fit this category) have been bred to be more docile, less independent and less interested in roaming.

However, I also think part of the reason people just open the doors to cats is because of exactly what Windsor1 said: they aren’t willing, or able, to make the cat’s environment as stimulating as necessary for the cat. It’s easier to turn a door handle and let the cat make its own entertainment than create the entertainment yourself.

I think mvp summed it up best (or at least summed up my personal headdesk best): we are the guardians of our animal’s welfare regardless of where they roam. IF you choose to allow your cat outdoors for any and all reasons, YOU do not forfeit your responsibility because “the world is dangerous”. You made the conscious choice and allowed kitty into said dangerous world, therefore if something happens to kitty, you do not get to blame the world. You knew the great outdoors comes with many hazards, both man-made and natural and you chose to play the risk game in the name of whatever you felt was right or correct or just for your animal. But no matter how you play it, YOU made the bed. You don’t get to whine to the universe because the choice you made ended up not working out for kitty.

As a side note, I have hit cat before while driving. Speed was not a factor: I was actually going 25 in a 35 because it was dark and foggy and I couldn’t see jack. It was on the road I lived on, drove on every day, knew well. Cat literally ran across the road right in front of my car, and there was nothing on this earth that could have helped me stop or swerve fast enough. He hit my LF tire. I felt like the world’s shittiest human being, especially when I knocked the owner’s door to tell them. Accidents happen, roads are dangerous places for pets to be near regardless of speed.

[Windsor1]

[QUOTE=Abbie.S;7753183]
As a side note, I have hit cat before while driving. Speed was not a factor: I was actually going 25 in a 35 because it was dark and foggy and I couldn’t see jack. It was on the road I lived on, drove on every day, knew well. Cat literally ran across the road right in front of my car, and there was nothing on this earth that could have helped me stop or swerve fast enough. He hit my LF tire. I felt like the world’s shittiest human being, especially when I knocked the owner’s door to tell them. Accidents happen, roads are dangerous places for pets to be near regardless of speed.[/QUOTE]

My argument is not that roads with lower speed limits are safe, but all other things being equal, they are MORE safe. My odds of safely avoiding any animal that runs into my car’s path go down as my speed goes up. That’s just physics.

As far as “the vast majority of cats do just fine not seeing the outside world,” well, I mostly agree with that. But “just fine” is pretty subjective. You know, it’s not as though cats have a lot of indoor entertainments. They can’t pick up a newspaper or lose themselves in a good novel or surf the internet. I understand that cats are not intellectuals. They don’t need all the mental stimulation a person does. But because of the limited ways they have to amuse themselves, allowing them to experience the outdoors in some way seems all the more important to me.

[Beaver_Breeze]

[QUOTE=Pipkin;7751910]
But see, I think being an ‘indoor cat’ is no life at all for a feline. Same as keeping a horse stabled 24/7, it just doesn’t sit well with me.

So I guess it’s all about perspective.[/QUOTE]

My cats (all ferals) would slap you upside the head (hopefully claws sheathed). They are very obviously happier inside than out. These formerly wild cats will run from an open door, and God forbid they have to share the electric blanket.

I have yet to meet one who doesn’t do well inside. I’m sure they exist, but I am certain they are exception rather than the rule. Cats love to hunt, that’s true-- but they love comfort even more. And who knows-- if you have an old house like mine, sometimes they still get to hunt. Yippee!

[Beaver_Breeze]

[QUOTE=Pipkin;7752883]
Anthropomorphising, sorry!! The world is dangerous - when I go for a walk I risk being run over, falling down, getting murdered, catching a disease, getting struck by lightning. I’d still rather go outside and take the risk than sit indoors all day and be ‘safe’.

So either way we are making these huge decisions for our pets, and either way we are compromising their standard of living. Around here most people have cat flaps, so the cat can chose. Funnily enough, none choose to stay indoors all the time, which to me answers the question.

If the cat has a run, or is amenable to being taken for walks, that reduces the issue somewhat. Imagine if someone had a dog that they never let outside the house, even into the garden or out for a walk? That wouldn’t be okay… And I feel cats are much more independent and prone to roaming than dogs. I wouldn’t judge the owner of a cat who decided to keep it indoors, even though personally I don’t really feel it’s right, so why do these people feel it’s okay to judge the owners of free roaming cats? Like I said, we can’t ask the cat, so it’s really guesswork on the part of the owner as to which is the more ethical approach.

I agree that the songbird thing is a massive shame. Would cat-proof nesting boxes be an option?[/QUOTE]

Because your free-roaming cats are trespassing in my yard. I do not want them there. My yard does not belong to them. They are not wild animals, like the critters they routinely kill in my yard.

I love cats with a passion. I do not love owners of cats (or dogs) who believe their animals are entitled to visit my yard. It is MY property. They can’t hunt there; they can’t crap there. I shouldn’t have to deal with them. Period. And I am sad for them, because they are at such risk. As much as I despise seeing your free-roaming cat killing my birds, I don’t want to see it squashed on the street in front of my home, either.

[PaintPony]

[QUOTE=Beaver Breeze;7753888]
Because your free-roaming cats are trespassing in my yard. I do not want them there. My yard does not belong to them. They are not wild animals, like the critters they routinely kill in my yard.

I love cats with a passion. I do not love owners of cats (or dogs) who believe their animals are entitled to visit my yard. It is MY property. They can’t hunt there; they can’t crap there. I shouldn’t have to deal with them. Period. And I am sad for them, because they are at such risk. As much as I despise seeing your free-roaming cat killing my birds, I don’t want to see it squashed on the street in front of my home, either.[/QUOTE]

Agreed!! :yes:

I wonder if the people who are cool with roaming cats feel the same way about roaming dogs? Most people seem to get pretty upset about unwanted dogs. And sorry, but dogs and cats are NOT the same. At all.

[OldNag]

[QUOTE=Beaver Breeze;7753888]
Because your free-roaming cats are trespassing in my yard. I do not want them there. My yard does not belong to them. They are not wild animals, like the critters they routinely kill in my yard.

I love cats with a passion. I do not love owners of cats (or dogs) who believe their animals are entitled to visit my yard. It is MY property. They can’t hunt there; they can’t crap there. I shouldn’t have to deal with them. Period. And I am sad for them, because they are at such risk. As much as I despise seeing your free-roaming cat killing my birds, I don’t want to see it squashed on the street in front of my home, either.[/QUOTE]

This. Cats should be allowed outside to experience the world. But like my dogs, they experience it in a fenced in backyard when we’re out there to supervise. They come in when we go in. Period. It really isn’t that hard.

I’m tired of the neighbor’s cats using my backyard as a cat box. I’m pretty sure if I let my dogs run the neighborhood and crap in their grass all the time they would be upset.

My solution was to humanely trap them and take them to animal control. It got that bad. My flower beds absolutely stunk to the point of not being able to enjoy my patio area.

The worst part about the whole experience was when I told the neighbor where she could find her cat (she was warned that I would do it the next time I saw her cats in my yard), she didn’t go get her two adult cats, she simply adopted 3 free kittens. Fast forward six months and here we go again.

My latest solution was found from watching “My Cat From Hell”. I put in motion activated sprinkler heads so when the little buggers come in at night they get a little surprise.

[Preposterous_Ponies]

Hmm, my formally “wild” kitten meowed for THREE whole freaking hours to be let in until we finally took pity on him and brought him in. He saw our cats through the window, and I guess he decided he wanted the cushy life. A few weeks later we put him out on the balcony and he wanted no part in it. He could not get back to his couches fast enough! :lol:

I have three kitties. They run around, chase each other, play with their countless toys, get snuggles whenever they want, hunt the mice who occasionally make an appearence. They have a rabbit and a dog to play with as well, and we have a bird feeder outside to keep them entertained. Heck, they even have mouse catching games on the Ipad.

The only danger they’re in is… I can’t even think of anything. Getting super snuggles and falling into a coma?

Cats are NOT native and IMO do not belong outside. Your house cat is not part of the natural landscape.

[OldNag]

Ok, I confess to giggling my butt off watching this…

http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/mYX3WPZ59W7N7/ref=cm_ciu_vr_moXMCHIATW03E6

[Joanne]

[QUOTE=OldNag;7754029]
Ok, I confess to giggling my butt off watching this…

http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/mYX3WPZ59W7N7/ref=cm_ciu_vr_moXMCHIATW03E6[/QUOTE]

I bought my cousin one of these because he was complaining of neighborhood cats using his garden as a litter box. He is on his fourth year with it and he loves it. Not only keeps the cats away but also the other wildlife.