so let’s perch someone on top of you in the manner of a jockey at the end of their long day and let them swing and see how it feels, eh? It is clear to me that you have little understanding of horse anatomy, nerve endings, and the like.
I can guarantee you that I could go out, with my unfit body and strap one of my training saddles on one of my steeds, take it for a little gallop in short irons and have pretty good range of motion to hit the horse at a pretty good clip; despite my lack of being in shape. Please remember that you are not the only one within the industry with experience so stop acting like those posting here on this topic are not involved. You have zero background on me.
Your statement that read that whipping a horse to make it appear that a jockey is trying to get it all from their mount is what is wrong with the industry.
I do hope that other members of the racing community come to this topic and share their thoughts, experiences, ideas. For a topic so regularly covered within the own industry’s media, I am curious to think of what others think as well. We obviously know that the outsiders looking in on the industry are judgmental on the topic, as they should be.
Whips in racing are not used for steering or to get a horse ‘out of trouble’ (not sure what that means) – they are used to get a horse’s attention, keep them focused (tap on shoulder, hazing)…and obviously to ask a horse to either maintain speed or go faster – is there one more gear yet untapped?
Whip use can be labled as excessive when the joc whips and doesn’t stop, thus denying the horse a chance to respond. With that in mind, whip use on certain horses (in part) could attribute to those horses not ‘liking’ the whip – they will actually perform poorly or have an attitude (and rightly so) if one is carried. California racing commission adopted a rule in 2015 which stipulates that a joc can only hit with whip 3 times in a row and then must stop in order to give their horse that chance to respond before using the whip again. Hopefully other states will follow suit. Maybe some have.
In American Pharoah’s derby run you can clearly see that Espinoza is hitting AP on the saddle towel – not on bare hide, and racing saddle towels are pretty sturdy; they are not thin like bed sheets – so there was some diffusion. Also the whips these days are very padded and light as @Palm Beach said – very different from the racing sticks back in my day which could leave a welt. But in all these whipping videos it’s quite hard to tell how much of the whipping is simply communication theatrics or actual hard whipping that = abuse.
And speaking of steering, here’s some serious whipping to correct a horse that is going wide. But really this joc lost his temper and is an abusive jerk who has no business riding horses. https://www.paulickreport.com/news/r…lvania-racing/
I personally don’t like the whip – at the end of the day whips are still an obedience tool. Do as I say or you’ll get a whack. I haven’t carried a whip in years…
My only question to you is HOW are you going to hold your whip? You have two choices – you can hold it like you’d hold a hammer so that the business end is pointed up in the air …or you can grasp it overhand so that it’s laying flat against your horse’s shoulder.
If you choose the hammer hold you might be able to stand up, reach back and give your horse a couple of good stinging whacks. But if you hold it overhand – like VE held his whip in the Derby – you’d have much less range of motion + a much weaker hitting ability. Try it and you’ll see.
I think you are projecting quite a lot and only considering the top end of the game where money is an issue and it has been somewhat corporatized just like most elite sports.
How many racetrackers do you actually know? I ask because raising racehorses, preparing them for their careers and then campaigning them is hard. It is expensive. It is risky. Believe me, I have spent more than I have made and by most standards, I have had modest success. If most owners are in it for the money, they are horribly misdirected to the racetrack. The burn rate for almost any kind of horse outstrips everything equestrian except maybe FEI level competition. It is entirely possible to spend the extrinsic value of your horse every other month at the lower levels.
So why do we do it? Because it is fun. The horses are amazing. The best ones – and I am not saying the fastest ones–try so hard to please. The best people–and I am not saying the most successful–are laser focussed on their animals and the care is first rate. The goal is completely pure. I want to raise and race the fastest best athlete I can and I am blessed to associate myself with professionals who have dedicated their lives to the breed. They also could have gone and made an easier living.
When it all comes together, it is a high that keeps you going until the next time. Often there are literally years between drinks of water. But that is the average owner. The sport is so much more than Bob Baffert or Todd Pletcher although admittedly that’s tough to conclude from the industry press.
I don’t think that post was generated towards this type of topic. my reference was merely towards tracks/the industry protecting the people involved before the horses. Hence the Delaware park outcome this week. Agreed that the industry press is only concerned about the elite in the game, the big dollar investors and trainers, when the bulk of the industry is supported by the smaller people.
I think many of you are missing the point of this post and thread. No amount of explanation for the justification of the use of a whip on a horse in a stretch drive is going to stand up in the publics eyes or change their opinion. The purpose of this post was excessive use of the whip, lack of rules governing it, lack of backbone when the rules are enforced, and how the use of the whip is viewed in public opinion and fan base in the sport. Many within the industry is calling for an end to whips and if not, extreme measures to regulate their use. They are doing so for the sport and to grow the fan base.
If we cant eliminate whips in the sport, I think 3 strikes, 4 at absolute max should be the limit. 3 strikes are the limit in the sport world as well (eventing included). The thought behind this is 3 strikes while on course is enough to get the horse’s attention as needed without being excessive. If you cannot get the reaction you want out of a horse after 3 strikes, is it necessary to keep hitting?
It is hard to see how victor Espinoza is holding the whip in the stretch run of the KY Derby but at the top of the stretch it looks like he has swung his whip around and is holding it like a hammer based on the way he swinging and using his body at least several strides into the stretch.
This type of whip use I think is more recent in the last 10-20 years. If you review vintage footage, although the whips were coarser in those days, they used a normal swing of the hand and usually far less in the stretch
In my experience, a jockey who leaves welts or cuts on the flank of a valued racehorse of a skilled trainer gets beat up behind the barns the next day, no matter where they finished in the race. And are not engaged to ride the horse again in it’s next race- they lose the mount.
Skilled race trainers (and there are many, some famous and some not) want their horses to enjoy racing, to participate and put forward their ideas in the goal of winning the race, to celebrate being led over to the saddling paddock. Unskilled trainers may want to ride the “carpet beater” type of jockey, but their horses tend to gain a negative view of the competition soon, and not enjoy being competitive racehorses, and thus tend to be not as successful or look forward to racing again. They get weeded out in time. Unfortunately more can take their place. But at least most of the time, they have to pass an exam before they get licensed to become a trainer (which is at least some help, not found in other equine disciplines).
Does it happen that people (riders and trainers) go “too far” when emotion runs high? Yes. But at a racetrack it all happens in public, where the public, other trainers, and stewards can view the action, and it is recorded in people’s minds for future consideration. Perhaps it is more in those private barns and people’s back yards that the real equine torture happens, with no audience, no stewards and no backlash.
And no, “PETA” is not the answer, because their stated goal is to stop all contact between humans and animals, in all ways. This goal is not helpful to horses, to racehorses, or to humans. Their actual main goal is to extract money (donations) from kind people who don’t have much first hand experience with animals most of the time but are slaves to emotion, to line their own pockets, has nothing to do with the welfare of animals. As soon as PETA gets involved, all recognition of animal welfare is gone.
Wrong again. Race riding is very tiring. You should strap a jock saddle on one of your steeds and hike your irons up and give it a whirl for a mile or so at race speed.
There are many top level jockeys who gallop horses in the morning, and ride races in the afternoon.
Regarding abuse? Even Victor Espinoza, of AP fame, was set down in the past several years for excessive use of the whip. It happens. It’s wrong- but thankfully, some times, the jockeys who offend are punished for it- even at the top.
If it is that tiring, how to jocks exercise in the morning (yes, some jocks do ride in the morning) and then come out and ride most/all of an 8+ race card?
If it is that tiring, how do they manage to get past the finish line and pull up the horses before the horses slow down on their own?
Tiring, maybe… exhausted… not so sure I buy that.
If welts/cuts are being left on the skin, that, to me is over the top.
Have I race ridden, no. But watched more than once when, during the race, a jock will use the whip to help address a horse bearing in or out (or use of whip caused horse to bear in or out). Sometimes, it takes more than the reins to stop that drift.
At what point is a jock allowed to stop “persevering” with the horse that they can stop pushing the horse to a better finish. The owners may not care where the horse finishes but the betting public might. When can a jock stop race riding and not get called on the carpet for not riding hard enough (seen that happen as well).
Do I like all applications of the whip that I’ve seen? No. IMO hard to come up with hard and fast rules that keep the horse safe, keep all other horses on the track safe and also protect the bettors’ interests.
One reason I’m with snaffle1987’s post to ask for feedback from other participants in the industry and not just those who rescue horses.
I have seen jockeys not use the whip or use it very minimally and get set down for not riding hard enough. Felt for them. This is why I think there should be very strict max hit rules in racing or no whip at all. No whip = everyone has the same fair chance. max hit rules may still falter in the public eye but after 3 or 4 hits your point should be made to the horse. no justification beyond that.
$300.00 for breaking skin on Stellar Wind. I agree they have been set down in some instances which is a positive step, but does anyone honestly think that $300.00 is going to affect VE, make him think twice about his use of the whip, or change whip use for the better. $300, no suspension for abuse of a horse is downright laughable.
what makes you think I don’t or havent. again, you’re not the only poster here from within the industry. these jocks are not fatigued to the point that their whip use does not create harm to the horse. If they were; they wouldn’t be riding multiple races a day. If you believe so; you are delirious. the point of whipping a horse is to incite a reaction; in this case- go faster, get away when told to do so. The horse’s reaction is driven by a pain response from being hit. Even minimal pain. If any horseperson in any other industry hit a horse with that level of force and nature of the hit; they would be arrested. It’s very cut and dry. Fatigued or not. It’s bad and it looks bad.
Again, horses can feel and react to a gram of a fly on their skin. What makes you think that being hit full swing by a person does not produce pain to the animal. If you say it doesn’t what proof do you have that it doesn’t?
You are failing to understand that this is a REAL issue within the industry and as a person inside the industry you need to care about it. Why? Because racing has been on a slippery slope in north America for some time now. No one from the general public wants to go to a weekend race and watch horses get hit. Without spectators and bettors; racing is done.
Only the top few riders ride most races, and even the top rides will refuse to ride horses if they don’t think the horse has a good chance of winning. Very very very few jockeys exercise ride in the morning. They will show up to work horses, but very very very rarely will they just gallop horses.
And I did say tiring, I did not say exhausted. That’s your word.
