Adding Chickens to the farm... I've got questions!

[4LeafCloverFarm]

@Simkie

Your coop plan sounds great! Rule of thumb for you is 4 sq ft per bird inside the coop and 10 sq ft per bird in the run. That’s floor space. You’ll also want 12" of roost space per bird. Definitely use hardware cloth–best price is Amazon, the half inch is good. Weasels, rats and snakes can get through bigger spaces. Raccoons have smart little hands and can climb, so consider them when you build.

So hardware cloth it is. Didn’t know that is what it was called until I looked it up to see what it was exactly. Same stuff my dad and I used to build a rabbit hutch back when I was in high school and I got my little sister a bunny rabbit for Easter.

I’m assuming the 1/4" is preferred over the 1/2"? And the lower the gauge the better? I’m looking on Home Depot, Lowe’s and Amazon to see where the best deal is. I may have to scale back my plan to just one 8’X8’ space inside and one 8’X8’ space outside, as that is going to require a lot of wire. But that should still be fine for 4 chickens? Then if we wanted more, we’d have to double the space. I was just trying to give them the max amount of space possible.

[Simkie]

When I was looking, the 1/4" was quite a bit lighter weight than the half, so I went with the heavier half inch. Yep, smaller gauges are heavier weight. Pick up some snips, too, it’s just a bitch to cut. Wear gloves!

8x8 coop gives you space for 16 birds, 8x8 run gives you just over six birds. Plenty of room for your four!

[4LeafCloverFarm]

@Simkie

8x8 coop gives you space for 16 birds, 8x8 run gives you just over six birds. Plenty of room for your four!

So, those cute chicken coops in ads I see or at TSC that are TINY are really way too small to keep more than one or two chickens (in a safe and healthy manner). I’d have never bought one, because it seems to me they’d fall apart being out in the weather with the way they are constructed and the materials they are made out of. But I often wondered looking at their size, just how many chickens you could keep.

[TMares]

The 1/2 inch is perfect. Yeah the tsc coops are too small, honestly.

[4LeafCloverFarm]

@TMares

The 1/2 inch is perfect. Yeah the tsc coops are too small, honestly.

Good, because I can’t find a 1/4" in 19 gauge that is more than 2’ high. I think the 23 or 27 gauge is too flimsy. So 1/2" it is!

[Wanderosa]

We’ve raised several 1000 chickens over the years. I highly recommend electronet fencing and/or running a couple hot wires at about 4" and 12" off the ground around the perimeter of permanant fencing. Chain link is not safe if you have raccoons around unless you line it with hardware cloth. Otherwise, raccoons will stick their hands through and wave them to make the chickens come over to investigate. And then they yank the heads off the chickens I’ve only lost a few to aerial pedators. And all of those victims were meat chickens that are slower moving and have less “chicken” instinct than egg breeds. Owls were the biggest culprits. I witnessed a hawk attack, and more spectacularly, a BALD EAGLE. The eagle was so majestic that it was hard to be angry about the chicken. I swear that thing practically shook it’s middle talon at me and taunted me like “what are you gonna do? I’m an American icon!”

The babies are easy to raise and cute. However, they extremely vulnerable to preditation. Most house cats won’t go after a grown chicken but will kill a chick. You wouldn’t expect it, but rats are notorious for killing chicks. And they can and will wipe out all of them in a night. Never use cedar bedding for chicks. The cedar oil is a neurotoxin. I like to stir sugar or commercial electrolyte solution into the chicks’ water for the first few days after they arrive. I also cut short pieces of 2 x 4 to sit the water fonts on so the chicks can’t kick bedding into the waterers and gum them up. I also use high protein game bird or turkey starter for chicks if I can afford it. The extra protein prevents a lot of leg issues. They also love scrambled egg!

Two of my favorite breeds for temperment are Buff Orpingtons and Turken (Naked Necks). But the most gentle I’ve owned by far were the poor sweet “spent” hens that I got from an Amish organic egg farm. They were basically Rhode Island Reds but a special, patented strain from a hatchery that only sells to large commercial clients. They were very unchicken in their behavior & were dependent on humans for everything. We got 500 of them. Because they didn’t know how to roost, go outside, nest, etc, they laid eggs everywhere and you got yolk all over your boots just trying to walk through the barnyard!

[4LeafCloverFarm]

@Wanderosa

We’ve raised several 1000 chickens over the years. I highly recommend electronet fencing and/or running a couple hot wires at about 4" and 12" off the ground around the perimeter of permanant fencing. Chain link is not safe if you have raccoons around unless you line it with hardware cloth. Otherwise, raccoons will stick their hands through and wave them to make the chickens come over to investigate. And then they yank the heads off the chickens I’ve only lost a few to aerial pedators. And all of those victims were meat chickens that are slower moving and have less “chicken” instinct than egg breeds. Owls were the biggest culprits. I witnessed a hawk attack, and more spectacularly, a BALD EAGLE. The eagle was so majestic that it was hard to be angry about the chicken. I swear that thing practically shook it’s middle talon at me and taunted me like “what are you gonna do? I’m an American icon!”

:eek: Crafty little buggers those raccoons! Okay, adding electric to the outside of the pen is certainly doable. I have a spare fence charger that would do nicely and I have plenty of electric fence insulators. I understand how you feel about the Bald Eagle… that’s how I felt when the Kestrel took the dove right in front of me…

@Wanderosa

The babies are easy to raise and cute. However, they extremely vulnerable to preditation. Most house cats won’t go after a grown chicken but will kill a chick. You wouldn’t expect it, but rats are notorious for killing chicks. And they can and will wipe out all of them in a night. Never use cedar bedding for chicks. The cedar oil is a neurotoxin. I like to stir sugar or commercial electrolyte solution into the chicks’ water for the first few days after they arrive. I also cut short pieces of 2 x 4 to sit the water fonts on so the chicks can’t kick bedding into the waterers and gum them up. I also use high protein game bird or turkey starter for chicks if I can afford it. The extra protein prevents a lot of leg issues. They also love scrambled egg!

Okay - hadn’t thought of rats eating chicks. We do have rats in our horse barn - not sure if they are in the stable. Now the chicks will stay in the house until they are fully feathered… but not sure how large they will be then. Is there a specific size or weight that would make them less vulnerable to rats? Check on the no cedar bedding. I figured straw was best for nesting boxes and bedding? I’m still looking for that book I bought, so not sure if that is the appropriate bedding or not. I’ll look into feeds available at TSC and the Co-Op. I haven’t gotten that far yet. There just seems to be something really wrong with feeding chicks scrambled eggs!!! :lol:

@Wanderosa

Two of my favorite breeds for temperment are Buff Orpingtons and Turken (Naked Necks). But the most gentle I’ve owned by far were the poor sweet “spent” hens that I got from an Amish organic egg farm. They were basically Rhode Island Reds but a special, patented strain from a hatchery that only sells to large commercial clients. They were very unchicken in their behavior & were dependent on humans for everything. We got 500 of them. Because they didn’t know how to roost, go outside, nest, etc, they laid eggs everywhere and you got yolk all over your boots just trying to walk through the barnyard!

I’m going to spend some time in the next week researching the different breeds, Several people have mentioned the Orpingtons as a good choice. Thanks for all the info!

[Simkie]

Straw isn’t great bedding, and it can be really tough to spot clean. Most people use shavings. I use the pelleted bedding I have for the horses, but I fluff it up into sawdust for the chickens. Have been happy with that and it’s very easy to clean. I use hay in my nesting boxes and it’s okay…not great, but it’s here and “free.”

Rats can kill or maim full grown hens, too, so you’ll really just want to do what you can to minimize or eliminate those guys.

[Bluey]

Just adding, 2" chainlink won’t stop smaller coons and full sized skunks, or rabbits.
I have seen them squeeze handily without hardly slowing down thru those fences.
That is what we have around the yard, the thicker wire, heavy duty kind, because of the feral hogs.

A cheaper 10’ x 10’ dog kennel like Home Depot sells would be fine for a handful of chickens if you line the bottom feet with hardware cloth and put some kind of chicken wire over the top to keep hawks and such off.
If you have enough room, put two together.
They are made out of portable panels and that gives you a larger chicken run.

There are companies that sell chicken tractors, the coop and run on wheels or skids you can move around so the chickens have a new area to investigate.

Rats can be a problem with chicks, mostly because they will attack several chicks and only eat a bit of each.
They cripple them attacking their legs, so the attrition can be large from just one rat, one night.
Best to have the coop rat proof closed at night.

[2DogsFarm]

Another way to hawkproof that ![](s cheaper than covering with wire is to run baling twine in a crisscross pattern across the top of your fenced yard. Like weaving those potholders we did as kids, but much looser/bigger squares.
Hawks see it as a possible solid barrier & won’t swoop through.

I used deer netting at first, but snowload brought it down & I got tired of re-stapling & replacing the netting - cheap as it is.
My current checkerboard of twine is going on 5yrs & is just now getting loose in some places & coming down in others.
Snow goes right through it, doesn’t seem to get iced up either & replacing it takes all of maybe 1/2h for my 30X20 yard.

I had a rat problem too - rats were getting so bold they’d peek out when I refilled the feeder in the coop! :eek:
I started calling them the Disney Rats :mad:
[IMG]https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/wpimages/images/images1/1/0707/24/1_dab12c6851ff2434880340157fc14bfa.jpg)
I finally resorted to poisoned bait - pushing it waaaay far back into the holes the rats came from.
Of course, I then had to worry about secondary poisoning to the hens if a rat died inside the coop & they ate it.
That did not happen & rat population disappeared.

[Victorious]

Chickens are so great to have around! They are very minimal work for the great returns you will get! Not just eggs but laughter! They literally crack me up when they run towards me-i can only see a victorian lady with bloomers. They are so fun to watch. They will eat ticks, bugs, even small snakes! They love to comb the field after mowing and eat whatever I might have mowed over. The most work you will have to do is up-front and really, it sounds like you are on the right track there. Just think of every wily predator and prepare for that and you will be fine. We have lost them to hawks, raccoons, skunks, neighbor dogs and weasels and mink. It just happens. Ours free-range in one horse pasture, so they can get a bit far from their coop but almost all of the deaths actually occurred in or near the coop. I could probably live without having a rooster again. I don’t know how much safety they offer, and honestly, their breeding practices were definitely not so fun to witness. That said my favorite breeds are;
Barred Rocks-kind, great layers and so classically beautiful
Buff Orpington-long-lived, great layers, cold hardy
Bantams(polish crested)-so cute and funny
Brahmas-feathered feet, long-lived and gentle
I also loved having Araucanas but they do not lay eggs for very long and they live for a long time.

After a few years with chickens…you will want to move on to turkeys!! or even guineas! So fun-they’re like your gateway poultry.
Also-make sure if you are getting Rocks that you get barred or white Rocks and not Cornish Rocks!!Those are meat chickens and will not lay eggs for you(well they may if they live long enough, but they are bred to grow super fast and they will have trouble standing at 6 weeks or so)

[TMares]

I had a mink or a coon peel back a section of chicken wire across the top of our pen, get in, and kill a number of hens.

Please use the hardware cloth for ‘walls’ and around the perimeter, buried, for your coop. If not buried, then protect it with hot wire around the base. I have racoon prints on the exterior door of my nesting box/chicken ‘house.’ Only a very smart set up out of reach kept them from getting in there.

You have to fence out everything from:
Wild birds eating your feed
snakes eating babies and eggs
squirrels eating your feed
mice eating your feed
rats eating your feed and eggs
coons reaching in and ripping heads off

ETC- do it right or cry later.

[stb]

Two years ago we started our chicken family with 10 chicks. We really only wanted 6 or 7, but everyone said that we would lose some. Well, we didn’t. Last fall we finally gave away our 3 Rhode Island Reds. They were good layers but were bitchy and picked on the other chickens. Since downsizing our flock things have been more harmonious. We currently have 3 Golden Sexlinks (Golden Comets) and 4 Americanas. The Sexlinks are great and consistent egg layers. The Americanas are divas that refuse to lay at all in the cooler weather. Also, their eggs are smaller. The eggs are pretty though, and the chickens are pretty as well.

Our chickens spend the night in a well fortified coop an run and are out during the day. We do have hawks around but knock on wood we haven’t had any trouble with them. My biggest beef with the chickens is that they like to hang out in my barn and they poop in the aisle, which doesn’t endear them to me. They also scratch around in my flower beds and make a mess. They are really my husband’s deal, but I do admit that having a steady supply of fresh eggs is a luxury. Also on the plus side, they do a great job with insects. I swear we have had fewer mosquitos since the chickens arrived, and I haven’t seen a tick on the property either.

For Christmas I gave my husband an automatic chicken door, which lets the chickens out in the morning and closes them in after dusk. That has been worth every penny I paid for it.

[4LeafCloverFarm]

1/2" 19 gauge hardware cloth was agreed to way up at post #40 or 41. So I do understand other types of fence has holes that are too big - which makes perfect sense given snakes and rats and other critters that can get through larger holes. I don’t believe I ever said we were using chain link fencing, but if I did, that was the wrong term to use. We will wrap the 8’ hog/cattle panels we have with the hardware cloth and bury them down a good foot on the exterior. It will give the hardware cloth some stability and strengthen the walls. Inside the stable where the walls are true 2" thick wood, we’ll have to devise some way of digging down below the bottom board and burying something - we have some spare metal roofing panels (3’ X 8’) that would work.

The exterior area of the coop or “yard” is under the roof of the lean-to attached to the stable (like a horse run-in shed), so there is a roof already. So nothing can attack the chickens from above - its all under a metal roof. That’s why I thought using this old pig/hog stable would be perfect. The chickens would have an inside and an outside area under one roof.

All feed will be kept in metal garbage cans and I will make one of the 8’ X 8’ stalls into a feed & supply room. We’ve never had an issue in the horse barn with rats or coons or whatever getting into the horses food (kept in heavy plastic feed bins and metal garbage cans) in a feed room that isn’t even fully enclosed.

So, Fort Knox chicken coop it is. Got it!

[4LeafCloverFarm]

@stb

For Christmas I gave my husband an automatic chicken door, which lets the chickens out in the morning and closes them in after dusk. That has been worth every penny I paid for it.

Well doesn’t that sound cool! My husband loves gadgets like that. That might be something (if we go ahead with this) to put on our Christmas list. Would love to see my mom’s face when we ask for an automatic door for chickens! :lol:

[Simkie]

Hey @stb which auto door do you have? I’d love one, but reports of raccoon break in on various models has me a little hesitant!

The door thing brings up a good point that hasn’t been raised yet (I don’t think.) If you don’t have an auto door, you really need to be home at dark to lock them in, unless you have a secure run. Maybe your run will be @4LeafCloverFarm? Mine isn’t (no roof yet) and I always worry about my birds if I’m not home to tuck them in at dusk.

[stb]

@Simkie - here you go:
We got ours from Amazon.
[h=1]ChickenGuard Premium Automatic Chicken Coop Pop Door Opener & Door Kit Combo | Outdoor/Indoor Auto Door Opener, Chicken Coop Accessories[/h]
by ChickenGuard

[Bluey]

Looks like that would work just as you intend.

Looking at that barn and inside, my allergies kick in big time just from seeing all those dark spaces and I almost start sneezing.

You may want to wear a mask while working in there, until you get that very clean.
Do you think that whitewashing the walls down some could help with light and cleaning things up in there, maybe?

You may consider some of those smaller solar lights you can stick the little panels outside and hang the lights themselves inside.

[4LeafCloverFarm]

@Bluey, yes it will be thoroughly cleaned and more dirt/clay brought in to even out the floor in spots. The pigs or hogs or whatever they were 40+ years ago put some large divots in the floor. Actually, I was thinking of covering the inside walls (at least the parts we will immediately be using for chickens) with whatever is cheaper - particle board, plywood or 1/2" lumber from a saw mill. That would finish it off and make it look nice. Then plug the areas of metal roof tiles where there are some small holes with caulk/silicone. The barn has been empty/unused for like 30 or 40 years.

Solar wouldn’t work most of the year - too many trees in the area. Waiting on estimates from my electrician for running electric from our barn, which has its own panel/service. When we had the electric put in the barn years ago, we had it set up so we could eventually add the stable on there.

[Simkie]

Cool space! And plenty of room to expand when chicken math takes over

One thing to watch for, since livestock has been on that dirt before, is coccidiosis. If your bitties get droopy and floofy when you put them out, get some Corrid in their water ASAP. Best just to have some on hand.

It’s not a big deal if you act quickly, but can be deadly if you wait or have to order the meds. I went through it when we had quite a lot of rain when the birds were young. It came out of the mud in the run and hit the youngest hen–no surprise, her immune system was the least mature. She recovered just fine and it didn’t get anyone else with treatment. Bloody dropping are a sure sign, but you’ll likely see droopy and fluffy first.

Maybe also think about how you’re going to keep the birds out of the rafters, unless you don’t mind them roosting up there? Having a defined roosting space with some sort of poop containment system is great–they poop A LOT overnight. The piles they can produce are seriously amazing :lol: