Addressing Concerns at New Barn

[luv2lope]

This is why I came here to ask how to handle this-- I do not want to come across as a PITA annoying boarder and I am trying not to step on any toes, nor am I going to freak out on someone, or pack up and leave tomorrow without an explanation.

This barn was actually to be a short term stint as I am on a waiting list at a barn much closer to where I’m living. The BO knows that and is ok with it-- she even told me I didn’t have to give notice when the time comes (I would still give as much notice as possible though). I want to give this barn an honest shot, but watching my horse root through mud and manure picking at strands of ground-in hay doesn’t sit well with me. The dominant horses will not back off the hay feeder, even when they aren’t eating, they just stand there and chase off the timid ones that want to eat.

I am aware that there will be herd dynamics and they do take time to sort things out. My horse is young and can handle discipline from other horses. He’s found a buddy to hang out with and that’s great.

My horse has never been in a herd situation as he has mostly gone out alone (not my choice), or with one other horse. Previous barn I was at would do 3 horses max turned out together. Yes, it will be an adjustment for him but to throw him out with 5 others at once raises some flags for me. I was always taught to slowly introduce horses, for less risk of the shit hitting the fan. I am not a fan of large group turnout of various personalities as I have had horses get hurt and run through a fence in the past. I would think the BO is throwing some hay to the low men on the totem pole-- but just how much, I don’t know. Like I said, all the horses are in good weight (some on the tubby side) on the property.

Also, I DID NOT take extra hay and feed it to my horse, it was what was leftover in his stall from the morning. Trust me, I don’t just do whatever the hell I want. Yes, I am paying for a service…but it doesn’t grant me the right to just do as I please.

I will take a trip out and speak to the BO about my concerns and hopefully we can work things out and I can get a clear understanding.

[luv2lope]

Trust me, I know how gluttonous horses are with food LOL. They can have a stall full of it, but as soon as they hear the right person walk in, they are starving all over again!

I know that no barn is perfect, and that I will have to compromise on certain areas and pick my battles…unfortunately it’s the sucky part of boarding!

[endlessclimb]

The smaller poop piles are stress, not food related. Horses have pooping habits and colon sizes. My Old Man has a monster colon and elephant poops. If he wasnt being fed enough, his poop piles would not be smaller, there would be fewer of them.

OP, ask about the 5 instead.of 2, but the rest of this sounds like helicopter owning. Relax.

[Mallard]

I agree that there needs to be a conversation about the 5 horses vs 2 horses in the paddock.
But…If horse owner was only there for a short period of time… let’s say less than 2 hours - she has no way of knowing if her horse actually made it over to the feeder to get some hay. The ‘bullies’ will not usually stand all day with their faces in the hay feeder. Sooner or later they will move away and the lower horses will get to eat.
I had an owner come here once, stay for 10 minutes and then tell me her horse was not eating and needed to be taken out of the paddock and fed on his own.
In fact… her horse had spent an hour eating and then walked away from the hay just before she pulled in.

[S1969]

@luv2lope

I want to give this barn an honest shot, but watching my horse root through mud and manure picking at strands of ground-in hay doesn’t sit well with me. The dominant horses will not back off the hay feeder, even when they aren’t eating, they just stand there and chase off the timid ones that want to eat.

Ehh. He might have been in there for an hour. I wouldn’t be heartbroken just yet. The fact that they were chasing him away is pretty normal; I don’t know that it’s necessary to do anything yet. It’s possible they will just give him extra in his stall until the herd settles down.

And it’s likely the BO knows your horse, but doesn’t remember YOUR face. So I wouldn’t use that as a red flag either.

I guess I don’t understand why you didn’t just ask her when you were there? You were apparently talking to her at that moment - did you ask “how is he settling in?” If so, why not say “I didn’t think he’d be in a herd that large, is it just temporary?” Or, “I was watching him and the dominant horses were chasing him off the feeder, do you just wait and see how that works?”

[Pico_Banana]

As always, there are two perspectives on this, both valid.

On the one side, you have horse owner, who is worried about her horse. We all love our horses and don’t ever want them to suffer, so her concern is valid.

On the other side, the BO is trying to run her barn and understandably makes decisions about the horses in her care without always checking in with the owner.

What is difficult is that this is a brand new boarder and, let’s face it, some BOs don’t want to be questioned. Boarder doesn’t know how BO will react and doesn’t want to be asked to leave. So unfortunately boarder has to decide whether she’s okay with giving things more time to shake out and knowing her horse might have a rough time for another week or so, or raising her concerns with BO now and risking ire.

Personally, I would talk to the BO. It doesn’t have to be confrontational. Just tell her what you’ve seen and ask if this seems normal to her. Explain you know herd dynamics can take a while to shake out but you can’t help worrying about your baby. What are her thoughts? Yes, BO may go home that night and think, great, what have I taken on, but as long as you don’t question every little thing, her impression will adjust.

And boarder, just realize that taking care of horses is hard. BOs and their staff only have so much time in their days. Throwing extra money at things (I’ll pay extra if he gets turned out with a different group!) doesn’t address the underlying issue that there’s no extra bandwidth. It’s a sad fact but that’s how boarding works.

Best of luck to you!

[fordtraktor]

Just ask, OP. She may have tried your horse in with the 2 and it wasn’t working. I’ve had to switch plans before when a new horse comes in.

I would much rather see them exclude your horse for a bit than actively come after him!!! That’s when I say NOPE this isn’t going to work and go to Plan B. It takes time to integrate into a herd.

Over the course of the day, he’ll get to eat. Just not 100% of the time, and that’s OK. Horses do a lot of standing around snoozing and playing bitey-face. He’ll just have to wait until the bosses are full.

I have a boarder with a pony who was concerned its companion wouldn’t let the pony near the round bale when she was there. I had to laugh because that pony stuffs itself most of the day and is getting so fat I might have to muzzle it. If your horse is losing condition I’d start to worry, otherwise give it a chance.

[endlessclimb]

Or the owner who thinks her obese horse isn’t getting fed enough because horse is reaching under the fence for grass.

[FjordBCRF]

@fordtraktor

I would much rather see them exclude your horse for a bit than actively come after him!!! That’s when I say NOPE this isn’t going to work and go to Plan B. It takes time to integrate into a herd.

OP you said your horse has never been in a herd before, the above quote is spot on. I don’t know if this is YOUR first time with a horse being introduced to a herd or not, but introducing a new horse to an existing herd is stressful whether or not the horse has been in a herd before or not, and it can take a few days/week to the horses to sort it out. I have seen herd introductions that on day 1 you thought you were going to have at minimum a HUGE vet bill…but there was none and after a bit, the horses all settled in. If your horse isn’t getting run up and down the fence line all day or getting bitten/kicked I don’t think you’re in bad shape.

What you saw was a moment in time as well. When the dominant horses are done eating, they will likely let the others come eat. With that said, I get your concern, but give be sure to give it some time. I’ll echo the others suggestions in asking more specifically about why he was out with a larger group first. If that was a mistake, hopefully it will be fixed. If it wasn’t, then keep an eye on his weight.

Is it a dry lot? Grass will be starting to come in soon in most places as well so that may help too.

[Bluey]

If you were told horse was to be turned out with TWO others, is a valid question to ask why is he with five, is there a mistake?

[ProfAmEq]

6 horses on one hay pile? Been there done that, paid for the ulcer treatment and pasture injuries. Keep looking for a new barn. Ask the BO if they can put another pile out while he gets used to things in the meantime. Their response will tell you what you need to know about their management style. My current BO would put more hay out, does not tolerate horses getting bullied at all.

Have been at multiple barns with large herds, only one had this issue with newbies and it was because there were too many horses, not enough places to get hay. Horses got hurt ALL THE TIME. Two fatal injuries in the short time I was there, thank god not my horse but could easily have been.

Alternatively, I had a horse in a group of 12 somewhere else and there were NEVER fights over hay, even though new horses came and went all the time (sales barn)—BO put out twelve piles spaced along the fence line every morning. They were on about 15 acres. Very rarely any injuries or aggression issues.

Space and forage. Keeps them calm and happy. If they’re a bossy herd, there’s a management issue.

[fivestrideline]

@ProfAmEq

6 horses on one hay pile?

I wonder if the “hay feeder” is the big pasture block style, which can easily fit 6+ horses, space-wise. That would certainly make me feel differently than a 50lb bale chucked over the fence in one “pile”, for example.

[ProfAmEq]

Maybe? But if it’s like one small round bale or a hay hut, I would say nope. I like three head per round bale. Seems to work well where I am now too.

[fivestrideline]

Pasture blocks, at least where I am, are far larger than your average round bale. And the giant rectangle shape spreads out the horses. I’d imagine it’s like having 2-3 average rounds in a big feeder, for context.

I prefer 2-3 horses per “station” as well, in a place where horses are in and out regularly, but it really just depends on the set up.

[ProfAmEq]

Have not seen those around here! I could see it being okay in that case. As long as everyone is behaving, whatever works! I just don’t subscribe to letting horses fight or starve it out.

That said, 4 days is not a long time and yes, OP might not actually be seeing the whole picture. But if the horse is dropping weight and getting bite marks I’d definitely worry and speak up at that point.

[lenapesadie]

I’d ask as politely and as vaguely as I could. Polite bc it’s professional and vaguely to give the BO a good opening to discuss.

For all we know, a tree limb fell on a fence line forcing the barn to put two turn out groups in one paddock until a fence could be repaired or something.

[luv2lope]

@fivestrideline

I wonder if the “hay feeder” is the big pasture block style, which can easily fit 6+ horses, space-wise. That would certainly make me feel differently than a 50lb bale chucked over the fence in one “pile”, for example.

The hay feeder is a round bale feeder that sits up higher, up off the ground and is square shaped. I would say that 4 horses could share it no problem if they all got along.

[Calvincrowe]

You’ve gotten good advice here, but when I initially read your post my first thought was: that’s too many horses for one big bale/hay feeder/situation. Someone is always going to be the odd man out, sitting there, waiting to be fed, kicked at, bitten at, stressing. Sure, sure, I get 'herd dynamics and youngsters waiting their turn"…but if I’m paying for board, I expect my horse to be fed without having to fight for it.

OP, ask why 5 instead of 2, and see what is said. Then, if you can, hang around the barn for a few hours when they feed (or shortly thereafter), puttering, putting away your stuff, cleaning tack, socializing, checking out the new digs…all the while, keeping an eye on the situation with your boy. Do it subtly, but do it. You need to know what it’s really like before pulling any triggers.

While my mare is on stall board, I have had to remind our feeders, and my trainer, that she gets three flakes per feeding, not two, numerous times. It’s frustrating and frankly, I’m about to have that discussion with my trainer-- feed what is discussed, not what the feeders toss. Manage them so my horse maintains her weight. So I feel you!

[luv2lope]

@FjordBCRF

OP you said your horse has never been in a herd before, the above quote is spot on. I don’t know if this is YOUR first time with a horse being introduced to a herd or not, but introducing a new horse to an existing herd is stressful whether or not the horse has been in a herd before or not, and it can take a few days/week to the horses to sort it out. I have seen herd introductions that on day 1 you thought you were going to have at minimum a HUGE vet bill…but there was none and after a bit, the horses all settled in. If your horse isn’t getting run up and down the fence line all day or getting bitten/kicked I don’t think you’re in bad shape.

What you saw was a moment in time as well. When the dominant horses are done eating, they will likely let the others come eat. With that said, I get your concern, but give be sure to give it some time. I’ll echo the others suggestions in asking more specifically about why he was out with a larger group first. If that was a mistake, hopefully it will be fixed. If it wasn’t, then keep an eye on his weight.

Is it a dry lot? Grass will be starting to come in soon in most places as well so that may help too.

I know it will take time for him to find his place in the herd and that it usually evens out over time. I sat on the bench observing for about 2 hours each day…for the most part I was happy seeing him outside and not stuck in a stall.

I don’t have a problem if I know he’s getting a few flakes of hay thrown to him while him and the others sort it out. If he’s only getting 1 or 2 flakes of hay before he gets turned out and then goes out for 12 hours with no hay, and no chance of getting to the round bale, then I have an issue with that.

Right now everything is a sopping wet mudhole due to the rain we’ve been getting. The field he is in is a sacrifice paddock with a shelter, which is fine by me. He will go out on grass once things dry up and the field is ready for them to get turned out on it.

I’m wondering if the BO just forgot what we had discussed about keeping him in the field of 2. I would rather talk to her in person vs. over text as it sometimes can come off in the wrong tone.

[luv2lope]

@Pico_Banana

What is difficult is that this is a brand new boarder and, let’s face it, some BOs don’t want to be questioned. Boarder doesn’t know how BO will react and doesn’t want to be asked to leave. So unfortunately boarder has to decide whether she’s okay with giving things more time to shake out and knowing her horse might have a rough time for another week or so, or raising her concerns with BO now and risking ire.

I was once at a barn where I was made to feel like an idiot and pretty much screamed at while being told everything I did was wrong…from the way I rode, to my coach, to my horse. I highly doubt this new BO is like this, she seems pretty chill and open minded but I’m still treading carefully as I don’t want to start off on a bad note.

@Pico_Banana

And boarder, just realize that taking care of horses is hard. BOs and their staff only have so much time in their days. Throwing extra money at things (I’ll pay extra if he gets turned out with a different group!) doesn’t address the underlying issue that there’s no extra bandwidth. It’s a sad fact but that’s how boarding works.

Oh, I know how hard it is running a barn. I helped my previous BO at the farm for years and my god, how she didn’t go crazy some days amazes me! It is a business that takes a certain kind of person to keep trudging on and they have my full respect. I know I couldn’t do it.