[QUOTE=Coanteen;7926663]
I find it sadly hilarious that several people pointed out her MO (oh your horse is so hard to fit, only I can fit it), and she followed the exact MO today with OP :lol:
(I just assume my horse is permanently crippled from having only ill-fitting saddles in her life, as I had never heard of this wizard woman before.)[/QUOTE]
Yes, but you see CM wouldn’t be able to help your horse because although she would take your money, she would never actually deliver a saddle.
Oh geeze, what a nightmare, so glad OP got her money back. I can’t say I’m surprised. She came out to fit my horse/sell me a saddle at one point and I got the same schtick as others have described: my horse was SO hard to fit and ONLY SHE would be able to truly get a correct saddle to fit him and if I didn’t get a properly fit saddle from her, then basically I was a horrible, insensitive horse owner. It was really memorable, and not in a positive way.
I just wanted to add my experience with Colleen. I have two saddles from her. The first purchase was a used dressage saddle. No issues. The second purchase was a new jump saddle. I provided HALF of the total cost to her over the phone. I had my saddle in two months. When she delivered it, I paid the other half by check. I have no issues with either saddle. That being said, I referred Colleen to a friend, who also had a custom dressage saddle made. I was present for the entire meeting. My friend felt comfortable with everything Colleen said. She took some tracings and spent a good two hours with my friend. The saddle was ordered, my friend received it, then Colleen fell off the face of the earth. I don’t get why she’s so wishy washy? I think she’s very knowledgeable. I’m glad I have an “easy” horse to fit.
Lisa - you forgot about the comment ‘does not matter whether you are comfortable in the saddle or not, it is for the horse’. She got mad when I countered that if you hate how the saddle feels, you are less likely to actually ride the horse. Very difficult person to remain civil to - and no money was involved at the time LOL. I guess it was fortunate that her attitude prevented me from recommending her to any of my clients.
Dot & Lisa- Re rider fit… She told me I’d be fine in a 17.5" saddle and I went with it because I a) believed her and b) didn’t want to wait an extra month for a special order. I did not buy a custom saddle, but an off the rack Albion in a specific tree and seat size.
I swam in it, and had to wear super sticky breeches to avoid sliding right out around corners. Complained a bit but was told I was fine.
A few years later I am riding with Mike Poulin, no minced words with him. He stops me and demands to know why I’m riding in such a huge saddle, and points out that because it is so large there is no way I can effectively use my seat. He grabs a towel and stuffs it under the cantle. Voila, I can sit 10x better.
Of course this eliminates all of her custom flocking work. Horse didn’t care, was never sore, and she didn’t have much of an answer. She couldn’t really argue with Mike.
Again, she used to do very good work, my Albion was a beautiful saddle and fit my horse very well. But she needs to follow up after the sales.
When did saddle fitters enter the horse scene?
When I got my horses I wasn’t aware of them. One bought a saddle according to need and then had it flocked, if needed.
Was that because I’m ignorant (that was 25 years ago), or that there were plenty of shops around that offered demo trials?
There were always people around who would point out ill fitted tack and point you in the right direction.
Back in the day, Chall, there were three tree sizes - thoroughbred, morgan and warmblood. And three seat sizes - childrens, womens and mens.
Seems we all managed to ride and not cripple our horses 
Pad it up was the order of the day.
[QUOTE=dotneko;7927243]
Back in the day, Chall, there were three tree sizes - thoroughbred, morgan and warmblood. And three seat sizes - childrens, womens and mens.
Seems we all managed to ride and not cripple our horses
Pad it up was the order of the day.[/QUOTE]
This “logic” reminds me of people who say things like, "hey, we all rode in the bed of pickup trucks and [sarcasm]somehow[/sarcasm] we survived. Yeah, except for the ones who didn’t.
There are way fewer backsore horses today than back in the “good old days,” thanks to saddle fitters. We just didn’t know they were backsore.
[QUOTE=dotneko;7927243]
Back in the day, Chall, there were three tree sizes - thoroughbred, morgan and warmblood. And three seat sizes - childrens, womens and mens.
Seems we all managed to ride and not cripple our horses
Pad it up was the order of the day.[/QUOTE]
This “logic” reminds me of people who say things like, “Hey, we all rode in the beds of pickup trucks when we were kids and [sarcasm]somehow[/sarcasm] we survived.” Yeah, except for the ones who didn’t.
There are way fewer backsore horses today than back in the “good old days,” thanks to saddle fitters. We just didn’t know they were backsore.
Go back just a little further, and people had saddles custom made as a matter of course, just as with boots.
Posted half an hour ago on her Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10153037385597224&id=316397082223
The horse business would be complicated enough without the piquant marinade of expectations and emotions that sluices through the whole endeavor. Saddle fitters are often found wanting, and sometimes the criticism is fair. My superpowers are sparse and my shortcomings prolific, with one of the worst being that I don’t communicate well enough or frequently enough with those who are waiting for the saddles they have on order. Sometimes it is because I don’t know the answer, and often, try as I might, I can’t get a straight answer. I tire of saying I don’t know and trying to explain why it isn’t always knowable.
That said, if it were easy to get the right saddle for the immense variety of horses people ride, I wouldn’t have hundreds of clients who have bought ill-fitting saddles – often multiple times – before finding an optimal fit for their horse. If it were easy for individual manufacturers to make a huge variety of horse fits, there wouldn’t be so many saddles on the market that riders love and horses hate.
There are “custom” saddles made on synthetic trees, largely assembled rather than legitimately hand-crafted, that span the whole range of horse fits from A to B. I don’t do those. I do the ones that are made on a wide array of genuinely different wood-spring trees, from a variety of saddle makers, mostly tiny firms, where a small number of highly skilled hands are building saddles in an immensely inefficient old-fashioned way. Yes, problems with prolonged waits happen occasionally, and occasionally we get lucky and something comes through faster than expected, but either way, it is very rare indeed that we don’t nail the fit.
Over the years, as I have learned more and more about the strengths and challenges of the British saddlery industry, I’ve come to appreciate why there is so much uncertainty about delivery. Why is it so hard to pin down? One reason is the availability of trees; less frequently leather or components, but mainly trees. Synthetic trees are a cinch to roll out, and take far less skill to build on, so the saddles on them should be much cheaper and quicker to get, but this is often not the case. Wood trees are vastly more complicated to produce (to the exacting British standard of symmetry at least) and require greater skill to build on – again if you want a truly symmetrical saddle built to fit and to last. Trees get made in runs, and the wait for a run of a particular tree is sometimes longer than the saddle maker expects. I was once venting my frustration about this to a wise man I will refer to as the Dean of British Saddlery. He kindly invited me to dwell instead on the considerable value that I and my clients, and above all their horses, receive in exchange.
The raw materials side of the business is complicated but the labor side is diabolical. There are quite a few Qualified Saddlers - journeymen - most of whom are paid per piece they produce. There are far fewer Master Saddlers. They are skillful but not hasty, and don’t generally do piece work. The best of them (most of the saddlers who produce our saddles) make a good hourly wage and take lots and Iots of days off.
Then there is the bunchiness of orders arriving from around the world. Some orders arrive in twos and threes; some in twenties and thirties. There is no way to open the production spigot when a glut of orders arrives all at once. The dean has observed that Walsall has historically been always eight weeks from feast or famine, but that is changing. There is still something of a seasonal rhythm, but it’s increasingly unpredictable, as Walsall’s reach has expanded globally, particularly in the wake of the 2012 Olympics.
Still, to retain the best saddlers, the wages must be paid steadily across the year, and the most highly skilled saddlers – the ones you want making your saddles – are in short supply. If even one skilled, experienced bench saddler gets poached by a competitor, that can set back delivery of a particular order in a major way (as has happened to us). No wonder many brands have tried to make a virtue of necessity by touting the putative benefits of very expensive saddles built largely from pre-fabricated parts on synthetic trees. The trade off is the loss of variety in the range of different fits for horses.
I deeply appreciate the forbearance of all my clients throughout the country who have been patient – even compassionate – in the wait for their saddles. This year had its own bumps in the road – the bankruptcy of one of our British tree suppliers, for example, that left us unable to fill existing orders for saddles on that tree for months – but thankfully it’s been nothing like the health crisis of 2013. All in all it’s been a great year, with revenue up by 30%.
Best of all, I’ve had many gratifying opportunities to solve fit problems and make horses more comfortable and sounder in their work. Would that I could do this every time with no wait. There isn’t a great deal I can do about that in the short run, but what I can do is apologize for not communicating as well as I should have done, and resolve to be better going forward.
My heartfelt thanks to all of you who have been so supportive over the years, and best wishes to everyone for 2015.
[QUOTE=SillyHorse;7927273]
This “logic” reminds me of people who say things like, “Hey, we all rode in the beds of pickup trucks when we were kids and [sarcasm]somehow[/sarcasm] we survived.” Yeah, except for the ones who didn’t.
There are way fewer backsore horses today than back in the “good old days,” thanks to saddle fitters. We just didn’t know they were backsore.[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm - not sure what ‘logic’ you were referring to. I did not say we needed to return to the old days, nor did I call them the ‘good old days’. Merely commenting on the way we used to do things. But, carry on!
[QUOTE=dotneko;7927243]
Back in the day, Chall, there were three tree sizes - thoroughbred, morgan and warmblood. And three seat sizes - childrens, womens and mens.
Seems we all managed to ride and not cripple our horses
Pad it up was the order of the day.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SillyHorse;7927273]This “logic” reminds me of people who say things like, “Hey, we all rode in the beds of pickup trucks when we were kids and [sarcasm]somehow[/sarcasm] we survived.” Yeah, except for the ones who didn’t.
There are way fewer backsore horses today than back in the “good old days,” thanks to saddle fitters. We just didn’t know they were backsore.[/QUOTE]
This “logic,” that we managed not to cripple our horses. We managed not to get thrown out of the beds of pickups, too. Except for the ones who did, and except for the horses that at worst probably were crippled, and at best couldn’t perform well with ill-fitting saddles.
[QUOTE=Bearskin;7927343]
Posted half an hour ago on her Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10153037385597224&id=316397082223
The horse business would be complicated enough without the piquant marinade of expectations and emotions that sluices through the whole endeavor. Saddle fitters are often found wanting, and sometimes the criticism is fair. My superpowers are sparse and my shortcomings prolific, with one of the worst being that I don’t communicate well enough or frequently enough with those who are waiting for the saddles they have on order. Sometimes it is because I don’t know the answer, and often, try as I might, I can’t get a straight answer. I tire of saying I don’t know and trying to explain why it isn’t always knowable.
That said, if it were easy to get the right saddle for the immense variety of horses people ride, I wouldn’t have hundreds of clients who have bought ill-fitting saddles – often multiple times – before finding an optimal fit for their horse. If it were easy for individual manufacturers to make a huge variety of horse fits, there wouldn’t be so many saddles on the market that riders love and horses hate.
There are “custom” saddles made on synthetic trees, largely assembled rather than legitimately hand-crafted, that span the whole range of horse fits from A to B. I don’t do those. I do the ones that are made on a wide array of genuinely different wood-spring trees, from a variety of saddle makers, mostly tiny firms, where a small number of highly skilled hands are building saddles in an immensely inefficient old-fashioned way. Yes, problems with prolonged waits happen occasionally, and occasionally we get lucky and something comes through faster than expected, but either way, it is very rare indeed that we don’t nail the fit.
Over the years, as I have learned more and more about the strengths and challenges of the British saddlery industry, I’ve come to appreciate why there is so much uncertainty about delivery. Why is it so hard to pin down? One reason is the availability of trees; less frequently leather or components, but mainly trees. Synthetic trees are a cinch to roll out, and take far less skill to build on, so the saddles on them should be much cheaper and quicker to get, but this is often not the case. Wood trees are vastly more complicated to produce (to the exacting British standard of symmetry at least) and require greater skill to build on – again if you want a truly symmetrical saddle built to fit and to last. Trees get made in runs, and the wait for a run of a particular tree is sometimes longer than the saddle maker expects. I was once venting my frustration about this to a wise man I will refer to as the Dean of British Saddlery. He kindly invited me to dwell instead on the considerable value that I and my clients, and above all their horses, receive in exchange.
The raw materials side of the business is complicated but the labor side is diabolical. There are quite a few Qualified Saddlers - journeymen - most of whom are paid per piece they produce. There are far fewer Master Saddlers. They are skillful but not hasty, and don’t generally do piece work. The best of them (most of the saddlers who produce our saddles) make a good hourly wage and take lots and Iots of days off.
Then there is the bunchiness of orders arriving from around the world. Some orders arrive in twos and threes; some in twenties and thirties. There is no way to open the production spigot when a glut of orders arrives all at once. The dean has observed that Walsall has historically been always eight weeks from feast or famine, but that is changing. There is still something of a seasonal rhythm, but it’s increasingly unpredictable, as Walsall’s reach has expanded globally, particularly in the wake of the 2012 Olympics.
Still, to retain the best saddlers, the wages must be paid steadily across the year, and the most highly skilled saddlers – the ones you want making your saddles – are in short supply. If even one skilled, experienced bench saddler gets poached by a competitor, that can set back delivery of a particular order in a major way (as has happened to us). No wonder many brands have tried to make a virtue of necessity by touting the putative benefits of very expensive saddles built largely from pre-fabricated parts on synthetic trees. The trade off is the loss of variety in the range of different fits for horses.
I deeply appreciate the forbearance of all my clients throughout the country who have been patient – even compassionate – in the wait for their saddles. This year had its own bumps in the road – the bankruptcy of one of our British tree suppliers, for example, that left us unable to fill existing orders for saddles on that tree for months – but thankfully it’s been nothing like the health crisis of 2013. All in all it’s been a great year, with revenue up by 30%.
Best of all, I’ve had many gratifying opportunities to solve fit problems and make horses more comfortable and sounder in their work. Would that I could do this every time with no wait. There isn’t a great deal I can do about that in the short run, but what I can do is apologize for not communicating as well as I should have done, and resolve to be better going forward.
My heartfelt thanks to all of you who have been so supportive over the years, and best wishes to everyone for 2015.[/QUOTE]
One does have to wonder exactly why revenue is up 30%.
While I do continue to have an eyebrow raised, I have to say that the Facebook response post is much classier than some of the businesses that have been questioned on COTH.
[QUOTE=CaitlinandTheBay;7927433]
One does have to wonder exactly why revenue is up 30%.[/QUOTE]
When you continue taking in income and cut your expenses to zero, you can make a pretty tidy living :lol:
[QUOTE=starhorse;7927464]
While I do continue to have an eyebrow raised, I have to say that the Facebook response post is much classier than some of the businesses that have been questioned on COTH.[/QUOTE]
True, but it manages to be that by pretty much avoiding the issue altogether 
[QUOTE=Coanteen;7927470]
True, but it manages to be that by pretty much avoiding the issue altogether ;)[/QUOTE]
I agree. I was hoping to get answers on why exactly Adam says her account is on hold, and why Adam would supposedly lie to her that he was making my saddle. Everything so far has just been one big runaround.
It was a very nice letter of her filling herself with hot air as she explains she tries her oh-so-very best.
I read the FB post and all I could think as I was reading was “She makes a very good snake oil salesmen.” I got nothing out of her post but she should get into politics as she is good at saying a lot with out saying anything at all.
I don’t have a horse in this fight so my opinion means nothing.
[QUOTE=Coanteen;7927470]
True, but it manages to be that by pretty much avoiding the issue altogether ;)[/QUOTE]
Yes, I’d agree. In the past, many avoid issues altogether AND come across as classless, so… I guess my expectations are low :lol:
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