I do not use bute on my KS/ulcery horse, Equioxx only if he needs it. I also wouldn’t rule out Robaxin. It may be primarily bone pain she’s experiencing (or it may not be), but with that comes muscle tightness and pain. I do not attempt to bring my KS horse back into work without him being on Robaxin - it doesn’t give him total relief, but it allows him to use himself more correctly and build the right muscles.
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You have to remember horses, as prey animals are stoic.
Also, never forget that when one area hurts, other areas work harder to compensate.
I was injured in middle of Feb., blunt force injury to my left ribcage and pectoral muscles.
A week later after I overdid it, which I never really felt until several hours afterwards, it was my entire back that seized up, and now two months later its a small spot in the middle of the correction- right side of my back and right chest/abs that nag me.
I’m off muscle relaxers since a few weeks now, but boy were they helpful to my ability to rest (not to work) so that I wasn’t beyond miserable and unable to even sleep comfortably or nod my head without gasping in pain.
Things can get very complicated very quickly, and without the injured being actually noticing. Relieving the discomfort isn’t always about taking all the discomfort away, but facilitating the very healing power if rest, or semi normal but limited movement.
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WOW. Nightmare scenario. If you don’t mind me being offtopic and nosy, what happened? Horse related?
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I think the points about intellectual ammies going down information rabbitholes and getting OCD about the wrong things is spot on, I have seen it so much because I gravitate to other intellectual riders!
For me a personally very valuable part of horsemanship is that it lets me develop my intuition and my physical response time. It’s more like dancing than programming a computer.
If your horse will stretch one way for a carrot but not the other way, you don’t need a higher value treat. That’s not the issue. The issue is pain. In my horses I’ve only seen that after a vaxx that left them sore in the neck and shoulder. So I would look for neck pain.
The most important part of horsemanship is learning to see what the horse is telling you in the moment.
Also no two horses respond to the same exercise the same. As with human basic fitness exercises you can modify the same basic move up or down or use any equipment like blocks bands walls balls to get to the same place. If a set of gear makes the exercise too hard or ineffective or interferes with you, go without.
There is no benefit to thinking you have to master a particular pole exercise if the horse is too stiff to do it. And if the problem is actual unaddressed pain then stretching might not be useful. Have you had her neck imaged, I can’t remember?
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Sent you a p.m.
Buteless is an over the counter herbal supplement. It contains devils claw and yucca etc. It can still cause stomach irritation.
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No neck imaging. I’m not describing it well but basically she’ll turn her head/neck but bending her side is really hard for her, so if I hold the treat at her shoulder she can get it but no further. Vet did palpate her neck and test it for pain but the point of origin is definitely lumbar. Instructor felt some muscle knots in her brachiocephalicus and she enjoys massaging around her crest.
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This. Learning to “speak horse” is about the interpretation of all the information they give us in their body language and expression, and then how we effectively use that information to appropriately respond to them, either with a reward, a correction, a veterinary evaluation, physical therapy on the ground or under saddle, advancing their training or taking a step back, changing feed or supplementation, medicating, etc. This is what horsemanship is.
OP @hemitheconyxcaudicinctus is getting a crash course in all of it, and I hope she can maintain her sanity and enjoy the lessons this mare is helping to teach her. It is a lot and I am sure overwhelming but with her good attitude and intentions I hope she can see that there is a ton of opportunity here that goes way beyond riding.
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Aw, thank you.
Yeah, there are times when it’s extremely overwhelming but the one thing I never read about in all those horse books as a kid, never really asked about, etc… was training and desensitizing. I’ve learned so much already about groundwork/massage/gentle horsemanship/etc that I just didn’t bother to learn before getting her even after riding for years because I just assumed that all of that would already be done. We have ups and downs but it helps that she wants to please and wants to learn and is very food motivated. We do have our good moments and it’s so, so cool when you see something you taught them to do click - calling a horse and watching them speedwalk up to you and leave their food specifically because you taught them a new command is such a cool exciting feeling. Same with saying ‘forward’ and her taking a single step for me, and watching her figure out bopping a target pole with her nose in two 1hr sessions. She’s incredibly smart, which definitely makes it more fun.
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So this is the huge jump between being a lesson rider and an owner.
Ground work is never “already done.” Your lesson horses benefited in the background from coaches and grooms and barn help who daily reinforced manners, and they were preselected to be tolerant horses, and they were kept serviceably sound with hock injections or previcox or whatever until they couldn’t be, and were retired or euthanized.
Believe me, as a lesson rider or leaser you were absolutely not getting the full story on health management for any of those horses. Trainers play their cards very close to their chest and as long as horse isn’t 3 legged lame in your actual lesson, it’s all on a need to know basis.
I was just talking about this with a barn friend in regards to clicker training and liberty work.
Absolutely none of this is taught in most riding programs because they focus on saddle time. Also it has little place in competition riding where all the focus is on saddle time. The groom deals with ground manners as needed but the trainer focuses on riding.
I’m amused how mystifying many folks find basic liberty or truck performances in videos or IRL. Everyone is amazed at Cavallia for instance where I see a set number of liberty routines being well executed, but I can see how it works just like I can watch Spruce Meadows and see when a horse misses a distance.
Ground work and liberty work become important to us amateur owners especially when we do all our own work, and have extra time after riding and chores. I taught most of my clicker tricks when I was teaching an evening class and came back to the barn to tuck maresy in at 9 pm and wanted 15 minutes of quality interaction (rode and did chores in the morning).
Once you start on that path you realize how fast horses can learn and how much communication is possible, beyond the lesson string demand to lead quietly and stand in cross ties.
But it’s never already done. All over COTH there are threads about well broke horses that develop behavior issues or anxieties or fear of objects after an incident. Check out the one about the horse who became terrified of heavy equipment after coincidentally seeing 4 dead horses buried with backhoe on two different properties in a short time span.
Or a bad trailer ride or bad dog incident etc
Good groundwork helps keep a horse feeling safe with you. And things can fall apart fast with a new or inexperienced handler.
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Buteless contains devils claw, which is an herbal NSAID. It should NOT be fed to any horse with a history of gastric ulcers (in the opinion of this equine nutritionist), as it has all the potential side effects of pharmaceutical NSAIDS with none of the safety/efficacy studies.
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You know, OP, Scribbler mentioned clicker training. A few times I’ve seen you(OP) mention you don’t feel much of a connection with your mare. Nothing establishes a connection like open lines of communication, and nothing makes a horse more interested in interacting with you than clicker training. It’s a whole new language of communication and it’s very rewarding to see them “get it” and start to WANT to be involved with you. Most horses don’t want to be involved with human handling, they simply tolerate it. Anyone can learn how to clicker train, and most horses benefit from it.
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We actually do a lot of clicker work! That’s how I taught her to come when called/do target touching/step forward on command!
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Whoops! I somehow missed that - apologies, I did try to read this thread in full but guess I missed that about the clicker training. I used it on a horse on layup that was miserable and I think if I hadn’t done that our relationship would be very different.
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Please give the poor horse some robaxin.
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What insurance company is your policy through? It has one bizarre rule after another?!
I have never heard that giving a horse a basic NSAID starts the clock on a claim. People give banamine with vaccinations. Bute after a long trail ride or a horse show. etc. etc.
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I have nothing to add to the loads of great advice on just about everything here, particularly dags’ last post, except to echo a few others and say: horses are not dogs. They are just not- they do not have the bred-in people-attachment that dogs developed millenia ago. Horses will do incredible things for people that they have zero attachment to, and they will also plant their feet and refuse to move even if they are very fond of their person!
Some horses are very people-oriented, some are not. Over a long period of time the second ones can form connections with people, but some of them never do. They are individuals and have their own experiences and preferences. I just put down my oldest horse (Cushings) and he was the sort who wanted to climb in your pocket. He was an absolute lover and lived to hang out with people. My next oldest one I bought when he was five and it took years before I felt a bond with him- he’s just not a people horse, and that is fine. I accept that about him because I have dogs for that level of connection. My horses are my partners- and this one is the horse of a lifetime- but they don’t have to be dogs. My new guy is ridiculously snuggly and loves all people, all the time. It’s really cute and I love that about him, but I bought him to be a showjumper, not to follow me around (even though he will).
It’s not right or wrong to want to form a bond with your horse but they really aren’t the Black Stallion, or Flicka, or whatever. Building trust and understanding can take a very long time, which is fine- we are not horses, they are not people, and we don’t speak each other’s language.
Just spending time with the mare is part of getting to know each other, as is working with her and trying to understand what she is telling you. For example, if her neck hurts, and she can’t bend it past a certain point even when a tasty treat is up for grabs, she is telling you “I’d love that treat but my neck hurts,” so listen, and don’t make her stretch for it. Training through pain is never good training, and that is the one piece of advice I will reiterate.
Good luck- you can have all of the expectations for your new horse in the world, but you have to also be willing to know that she may not be able to fulfil them. That’s horses. A year and a half ago I thought I’d have to put my middle guy down due to a crazy injury we couldn’t get on top of. We finally did, but it very easily could have gone the other way. As I said, I just had to put my older guy down- it was a good decision for him but it still sucked. Horses are tough, and they can and often do put us through the emotional wringer. That is one of the worst aspects to horse ownership and although you are getting a much bigger dose of that right out of the box, and that sucks, you aren’t alone.
Good luck, take a lot of breaths, and don’t jump off the deep end doing x, y, z, and so on and on until you get lots of second opinions from qualified professionals. 
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I’m going to preface this by saying that it is not possible for me to change barns. Please respect that.
Came to the barn today to find that Ms. Horsie had been moved to a solo paddock by the public bus stop (a sidewalk runs along many of the paddocks in the front) where people routinely interact with/feed the horses. One of the yearlings is trying to breed the other two so now her pasture buddy needs to be turned out with him instead.
She will now be in a paddock alone, with no herdmates and no neighboring paddocks. I want her turned out out back so random people aren’t feeding her and messing with her. I’m worried being turned out alone and out of sight of other horses is going to trigger regression for her - she calmed down a lot once she got a pasture buddy, and I’m worried we’re going to go back to square one. I left notes everywhere but I’m also afraid the damn stablehands won’t turn her out in the right paddock and someone will feed her something.
Very, very, very stressed tonight.
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Are there signs along the fence line to not feed or touch the horses? I have a pasture that shares a fence line with a popular walking route and have the same problem. Signage is necessary. It may not deter the most oblivious and determined idiots, but it helps a lot.
I think there are one or two but there are also no trespassing signs and I saw teenagers go quite a ways up the drive a couple of days ago so it’s definitely not enough. I am not exaggerating at all when I say people feeding the horses in those paddocks and touching them is a multiple times every day occurrence. It’s BAD, and there are a lot of high schoolers around here too.
