S1969, good comment. People are people, OP, so it’s better for your sake, to think City People in general, are potential animal lover converts.
no need to set up a us vs. them process, in general. But yeah shooting at cattle :mad:
Watch your signage , “horse bites” sets you up badly should someone sue you when bit. So a visit to a lawyer or lawyer friend would be good. Or lawyers on Coth could advise.
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Signs don’t mean much, and you saying you warned them means nothing. The only documentation thst means something is the police telling them, per my insurance agents. Burden of proof is on you to keep them out.
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Well… I was all on the side of “Befriend the Idjut” until I read about the shooting at cattle.
WhutTheEverlovingFruitbat???!?!?! :eek:
IIWM, I’d visit your local PD and ask what they suggest re: the trepass issue & be certain to mention the shooting admission from the Husband.
In the meantime, hot wire for sure! And No Trespassing signs as well as those advising cameras are installed.
Not just City People, my own NFH was Country all the way & still she took the inch I gave & made it into a Country Mile.
We “met” late at night in a 24H Meijer when she introduced herself - so plainly she’d been using binoculars to watch me as our houses were not all that close!
Then I came home to find her feeding my horses a teeny bale of alfalfa left over from her (adult) son’s dead hamster.
I politely told her I needed to know exactly what my horses ate & asked that she restrict treats to the occasional apple or carrot.
For a while all went swimmingly & I had her feed for me a couple times - horses are out 24/7 & come in to stalls for hay & grain. So she never had to do more than slide a door open & put down flakes & filled pans - which I demo’ed then observed before letting her go solo.
That morphed into coming home to find she’d filled their feedpans with a mashup of fruit & vegetables that they left untouched & drew flies.
And the time I came home to find she & her DH had powerwashed the inside of my metal barn… including where I had hay stacked on pallets.
Then the tales of how TWH had “Beat up” my pony “Grabbed him by the neck!” - not a hair disturbed on the pony.
“Just helping” :ambivalence:
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This “neighborhood” consists of the city folks. the editor and our horse farm!!! No one else on this gravel road for miles in either direction!! Hay fields and cattle pastures…and fresh air!! This is rural, NE Texas!! According to the sheriff…the neighbors can do ANYTHING they want to do on their property!! As in target practicing with automatic guns…100 feet from our fence!! Welcome to TEXAS!!
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Put up hot wire and plant thorny things on the people side. Done.
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@crosscreeksh Not just Texas, here in my part of the Midwest shooting on one’s property is permitted as well as concealed carry.
Still, I’d imagine whoever owns the cattle would be interested in knowing some maroon (to quote Bugs Bunny) is using them for target practice.
Whether they are dairy or beef, being shot at is going to affect value.
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I can’t tell from your posts if you’ve said anything to her verbally about not feeding your horses or grooming them over a fence. If you believe that route is pointless - by all means send a certified letter informing them that they have been observed on multiple occasions feeding and grooming your animals. State clearly that they must cease and desist such activity and may not feed or groom your horses without your permission. You should likely state that they will be held liable for any injury or damage caused by their actions. You could also have a friend serve them with the letter and document date and time of service. Two friends is even better.
You should not have to go to any expense to keep them from violating your property rights. If you feel that the only way you can relax about this is a hot wire - do it. Post signs on the wire every so many feet. “Danger - Electric Fence.” Oddly, the signs do deter without the electricity. You could also include in your letter that if you have to go to the expense of installing a hot wire - you will hold them liable for the cost. I have zero idea if you could possibly collect on that but it might be enough to make her stop.
The husband that shoots at cattle is a low-life scumbag. LE may not do anything - but an animal rights group might. She has now taught your horses to come to the fence for treats.
The good news for them is that most of the grooming tools she purchased can be used on their dogs. You can choose whether to make the letter friendly or stronger. If there’s any possibility of at least having a “Hi, how are you?” relationship with this neighbor - do. Maybe she just doesn’t get it. Course, I think the husband is a jerk and abusive.
LE may not be able to do anything about your problem. I did convince a Sherriff once to just walk the line with me. The wingnut neighbor came out and just had to act up. He wasn’t going to do anything and said it was a civil matter. After she did that - he told her the next time he came she’d be going to jail. Problem solved. Good luck!
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From watching Lone Star Law, you can call the Texas State Game Warden for your district. What this idiot is doing is night hunting, and is absolutely illegal. See your attorney for a cease-and-desist letter telling these people that they are never to touch your animals ever, and that if they trespass you will have them arrested, and then sue them.
No more nice guy, and if the Sheriff continues to ignore the situation, call your county commissioner. Find out from your insurance agent, or the warden what you have to do about signage to have this idiot arrested. Who is the owner of the cattle? Do they know that this fool is shooting at them regularly?
I would put the hotwire on the fence near these fools, and make it hot enough that the horses won’t get close to her. A nut case like the woman, and her husband will be the first to sue you into poverty when something happens. Never let her on your property, or discuss anything with her. The husband sounds like a perfect match for her brand of crazy too.
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They can do whatever on their property but that whatever shouldn’t get into/onto your property.
This is no accident.
Targeting animals is something you should report to the sherif and, if you know, the owner of the cattle.
This has nothing to do with being city folks or not, j
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I would tell whoever owns the cattle that someone has been shooting at them. They’ll be pissed about that since cattle = $$ for them and I’m sure they’d rather not have that income dying in the field.
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I did tell the cattle owner. Good news is that cow hide is very thick and I haven’t seen any dead cows…but the husband ADMITS/brags about shooting them…JERK!! I’ll deal with the treats and grooming a lot better than finding dead horses in my pasture! And yes…I have asked/told the woman to stop feeding them treats. The grooming is new!!
If the woman wasn’t such a jerk…it would be nice to have a horse loving neighbor!! But their claim that they bought land in the country so they could do whatever they wanted was a turn off!!
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Man that’s a lot of exclamation points.
I have hot wire to keep dogs and kids out of my field that abuts a ratty trailer park. It is solar powered and was cheap and easy to install. This is easy to solve.
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get a great big Dog that has lots of shiny teeth, after all you are in the country and you can do whatever you want
We had a rescued German Shepard Dog that was 1/4 wolf … he was huge… about 140 pounds… that dog died at least fifteen years ago and we still have people ask if he is still around.
According to the sheriff,
“the neighbors can do ANYTHING they want to do on their property!!”
? Has the sheriff truly been fully informed? Because that is not quite right, even in Texas.
OP I’m wondering about a few things in your account, I’m sorry to say that not everything is adding up …
I’m from Texas, as are my ancestors and most of the extended family (many ranchers although not my branch), and live in Texas now. It’s legal to fire guns on your own rural property but it definitely matters if the bullets travel and do harm off the property. That harm is likely to incur serious legal ramifications. I doubt there is a sheriff in Texas that would refuse to go out and explain this to a misguided gun enthusiast. Those rural sheriffs believe in prevention, and are good at polite but direct, firm explanations of how things work “to help you stay out of trouble”.
In Texas, the seriousness of doing harm to another person’s cattle is right up there with treason and horse theft. For those not in cattle culture, think of someone shooting up a business’s construction equipment. Cattle are business as well as living creatures. The cattle business supports families, even if they are only part of the family’s income. It’s just luck that so far only the paint was damaged, as it were. LE will definitely get involved.
And I seriously doubt that the owner of the cattle is truly as indifferent as you indicate. Possibly the owner hasn’t yet found injuries on the cattle that will justify strong action, but when that day comes, things will get real.
So either you are not aware of some things that are going on behind the scenes, or else the sheriff hasn’t yet been properly told about what’s been going on. From what you say, OP, it sounds to me as if prevention resources are not being fully tapped, and they should be, without delay.
Rural sheriffs in Texas are well aware that if they do not exercise some control over harm being done by an idiot to a rancher’s cattle, or anyone’s horses or other livestock, the owner of the livestock is likely to explain it to the idiot the hard way. Making sure that people don’t feel that need is a primary purpose of rural law enforcement in Texas.
It’s not about the drama of these troublesome neighbors. It’s about effectively protecting the animals. With or without evidence, have a conversation with local law enforcement (another one, if you’ve already talked to them), and be specific, calm and objective, and include names. Help should be out there. What you are describing is not legal and is not ok, in Texas or anywhere else.
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Not really. There is variation from state to state on signage requirements and releases implicit in signage (or lack thereof), but in general, it won’t and may even help your case.
I’m not an attorney but it is my understanding that in most cases, the liability hinges on whether or not the individual who was injured “voluntarily and unnecessarily” places himself in the way of the “dangerous” animal. So, the "horse bites"sign in conjunction with the “no trespassing” sign does provide some protection as evidence that the neighbor has knowingly trespassed and put herself into a situation where she could be harmed.
Most of the legal activity related to animal bites/attacks involves dogs and in general, the dog owner is not held liable if the person who was attacked was trespassing at the time.
And yes, these are generalizations so I’m sure there are some “yeah buts.”
Wondering about some things OP is claiming …
Just as an example … here are some things that are not legal to do on one’s own property in Texas, no matter how rural and remote …
- produce, store and/or deal illegal drugs (or illegal immigrants)
- store stolen property (including animals)
- neglect or abuse animals (if it is documented and reported)
- do any harm to another human being that is not legal anywhere else
- bury a human corpse without proper notification to the county (you can have yourself buried on your own property if you want to, but there is a procedure to make it legal, and there are restrictions on private cemeteries)
- some areas have restrictions on the burial of large animal remains, especially in volume (admittedly enforcement is spotty on this one)
- shoot firearms so that bullets travel off the property and cause harm to people, property or animals on a neighboring property (when target shooting, always be aware of what is behind the target, and make sure the bullets will lodge in something that will prevent further travel)
Etc.
So I’m skeptical that a sheriff told anyone that a property owner can do “ANYTHING” they want to on their own property. Because that’s not true at all, not even in Texas.
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I HAVE contacted the sheriff’s dept. And was told that shooting was legal in this part of the county. ANY guns…any time of day!! I can’t PROVE which way the bullets are aimed unless they shoot one of our horses! The neighbor bragged about shooting at the cows in the adjacent pasture…not my observation. Another neighbor’s starving cattle were breaking through their fence and accessing our pastures to keep from starving to death. The sheriff was called and got a bit defensive when I pointed out that the neighbors bull tore down 300’ of our interior fence lines and were eating OUR grass!! The pesky neighbor is a pain…but not hurting my horses…at this time.
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OP, I’d consider quietly asking around to find out if you have a sheriff problem in addition to a neighbor problem. State police are usually helpful in that regard - sort of akin to going to local LE’s boss without exactly going to their boss.
Virginia is pretty Wild West about firearms and there’s still a law dictating how close to roads and neighboring structures you can shoot. Law applies whether or not you’re on your own property. Even in the redneck Northwestern county where i used to live the proximity law was consistently enforced. Stray bullets meant deputies poking around. The cynic in me suspects many were careful not out of a sense of responsibility, but a desire to avoid LE knocking on their door and discovering their meth lab. 
I had 30 acres and didn’t feel totally comfortable doing practicing target shooting or even shooting predators until a friend who was a SWAT commander walked it with me for the sight lines that would work for my .22 and .09. I doubt this idiot neighbor is being that careful. I’d start looking around my fields carefully. Probably with a metal detector. Lead remediation is a big problem. Indoor ranges have all sorts of air filtration systems because of it. I’ve heard of cattle dying from swallowing metal fragments. I’d legit worry about horses doing the same in the situation you describe .
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Call the game warden for your county. They are part of the State Police, and will enforce the hunting and shooting laws. Shooting after dark is hunting illegally, even if you are shooting cans in your back yard. Shooting off the property is illegal, despite what the Sheriff says. The game warden will help you, that is what they’re there for, and they have full enforcement powers. They will also tell you about the ways you mark your property to legally enforce trespassing laws.
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Of course concealed carry is permitted on personal property. Why wouldn’t it be? I open carry on my own property.
