My mare and I compete in the Hunters, hoping to move up to the 3’6" Junior Hunters soon. I started leasing her in September 2021, and later bought her. She has always had an issue with tucking her hind legs under her in the middle of a jump. Instead of keeping her toes up, she brings them down way too early, right as she clears the top pole, and it has been causing her to rub and even knock jumps. She has the scope to clear high jumps with her front end, but her back end just doesn’t follow through right. Her dad did the Grand Prix’s, same with her grandfather (one of his foals competed with Rodrigo Pessoa in huge classes as well) so she could easily get the height done. I watched videos of her grandfather, Lordanos, and he leaves his hind end up correctly, not coming down too early. Does anyone know of any exercises or anything that could help with this, or is it not able to be fixed? If needed I can show pictures of her doing it as well!
Does she continue to do it after rubbing one jump? Say you’re in a lesson, doing your first course, and she rubs the last jump. If you do another course, does she make the same mistake again?
If so, I would be inclined to get her checked by a vet. Could he something neurological or she may have been nerved in the past, and it hasn’t regrown all the way.
If not, I would practice gymnastics with some wider oxers in the middle, which will encourage her to stretch through her hind end and really reach with it. I would also take her on some different terrain (hills, small divots, etc.) to help develop her proprioception. That was something recommended by my vet that really helped with my more lackadaisical hunter.
Good luck!
It sounds to me like she’s trying to get that hind end on the ground sooner (vs your typical trailing hind end of a lazy or underdeveloped jumper) so I’d be inclined to quadruple check with the vet. Front feet and hocks are my first layman’s guess.
Also, making sure the saddle fits and the rider is staying out of the way; sometimes you see a hollow jump + hind end weirdness if they’re getting caught in the mouth and/or back (or they think they will be).
I think you might want to post some pics or videos, if you’re comfortable with that. You’re mostly going to get suggestions to take her to the vet because that doesn’t sound normal, but maybe some visuals would clear it up!
Definitely rule out physical causes, but also bear in mind that a sire or grandsire’s record doesn’t indicate the offspring’s scope. Most approved studs have Grand Prix or similar records, but most of their progeny won’t make it to the same level. Otherwise we’d have barns full of Grand Prix horses and yet we don’t. The dam has a huge component in the horse’s potential, as does training, injuries at a young age, personality of the horse, etc.
I say this because maybe she is at the top of her scope, and that’s something to keep in mind regardless of the sire’s record.
Is the rider opening up too early?
It can also mean the horse has an SI injury.
I would be curious to see photo or video for a better visual if you’re comfortable sharing.
If you free-jump her through a chute, does she do the same thing? Just wondering if it is present without a rider and saddle.
If I am understanding right, what you’ve described is textbook for a horse that has currently been maxed out of their scope. Could be any number of things, but my first instinct would be to check with the vet, particularly her hind end. I’ve seen it horses that have SI or suspensory issues - some of which seemed to originate with pain in hind hooves. Consider this could be the root of your spooking issues also, if this is the same horse you posted about in September.
This is what my Old Man started doing when his hock issues started. He was typically a very very careful jumper.
I think this horse has massive pain red flags.
The other thread outlines that this is a former 1.5m imported horse who has shown through 3’3 but now even with a pro in the tack can’t go around a ring in a relaxed manner, is bolting in fields, and is highly reactive. The OP is two hours from a trainer who is a jack of all trades type or maybe a show barn (thread gets confusing) and was looking for tools or medication to address these issues. I don’t know if any advice will be fruitful if pain is not addressed and this horse doesn’t go into a true program.
Also this is a kiddo who sounds like she lives way out in the middle of nowhere and the mare had colic surgery about a year ago.
Too many moving pieces for the internet to be much support but I really hope for a good outcome. I don’t think jumping exercises are the solution here.
yes, we currently have her in a training program for the next 3 weeks with my trainer at her barn. we just got her injected (she had last been injected in january) and the vet did a soundness exam and flexed her. he decided to only inject her stifles, she normally has both her stifles and hocks done, but he found that she was a little arthritic in her stifles. she is moving much better though after being injected, and using her body right. i don’t know if it was the time off, but when i lessoned on her yesterday she kept rubbing the top poles with her hind end.
You’ve also said twice that you’re hoping to move up to 3’6”. On this horse, I would not be focused on moving up.
Not to get more discouraging, but unfortunately breeding means little if the horse has conformation or neuro issues.
My mare has 1.60 Olympic bloodlines on both sides, but so far hasn’t stayed sound enough to show over 1.10.
Bone scan is next month. FWIW, I wish we did it sooner. May be something to explore for you depending on your horses age and budget with vet work.
I’ll play devils advocate. Could the mare be sore from boot camp at the full training barn?
An almost 15 year old horse with who knows how many miles, needs regular hind end injections and has a host of behavioral problems and now has trouble leaving the jumps up…this is not going to be your junior hunter. Sounds more like a retirement candidate or a step waay down and start over and see if she can become less spooky and worried at the 3’. Or lower. I think a lot of the Lordanos horses are pretty. Depending on how bad her joints are, maybe she can do some lower level dressage. My first thought on jumping with tucked hind legs was, sounds like she jumps like a dressage horse.
she just got there on saturday, where i had a flat lesson on her and we jumped for the first time on sunday since she was injected on thursday. i don’t think my trainer will ride her super hard, but i know she will probably work her on the flat mostly as thats what she had told us she was doing.
I had a whole thing typed out but scrapped it as I don’t think I was saying anything new.
Anyways, IIWM and the horse has needed hock injections in the past but we skipped it this time, I’d be getting those done and seeing how she felt afterwards. I don’t think hocks will fix everything, but it’s a starting point.
Is this trainer the one you’d theoretically be meeting at shows? If so, give them another week or so to get to know your mare and then sit down and talk realistic goals. Hopefully they can provide some guidance and help you make a plan - I say this with all the kindness in the world but you are VERY focused on the 3’6” for someone with a horse that can’t calmly canter a (lower!) course at a show.
Maybe we are all off base and just getting the wrong impression from your posts. If you want to post a pic or clip of this particular issue it may help clear things up (don’t feel like you HAVE to though!). That said, taking into account the other limitations you’re facing (distance, lack of close access to quality training, lack of personal experience at the level), I really don’t think this is your 3’6” horse.
Jumping a horse who had their stifles done 4 days before and expecting perfection is probably not realistic.
Especially if the horse is older and maybe not that fit due to soundness issues.
Properly bringing her back and building fitness and articulation in the hind end would maybe have helped more.
But also a horse who is running past distances or generally stressed out is probably going to pull rails. I didn’t see the other threads. But if she’s not able to calmly canter up to a jump carrying weight on her hind end and in balance, she’s not going to produce that kind of jump that you want.
This!
Unless I’m misunderstanding…but when mine gets their hock and/or stifles injected, they always got a couple days off, then a couple days of handwalking (or under saddle if that’s safer), the gradually work your way up to full work. So it would take about 2 weeks plus to get back to the regularly scheduled program.
In that two weeks I didn’t feel a dramatic improvement or anything. It took a bit of time.
You’ve pretty much wasted your money. Any vet I’ve used who does injections says 3-4 days off work, 3-4 days light hacking only, then back to normal work.
Positive effects don’t usually show up until 2ish weeks after.
From personal experience my back injection knocked me down for a few days. The steroids are no joke I would have been more lame a few days later if I were a horse. My ortho also said too much activity too soon and I’d have to redo the injections sooner.
