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AECs have a permanent home in Texas?

Eventing
#21

[QUOTE=bambam;7319475]
I think it is a horrendous idea and I am going to give my opinion despite the fact that I am an east coaster and therefore according to some my opinion is not worthy of consideration :rolleyes:.
Whether you are object to the Area II attitude or not, the bottom line is that the largest percentage of eventers is in Area II and if the eventers in this area are for the most part not going to attend if it is in Texas (and they are not for lots of varied reasons- most of them already mentioned) then how is it good for AECs to leave it permanently in that location??
Rotating it is the only way that I see to keep it accessible to everyone at some point and ensure that it does not die a slow death from lowering attendance. This year was already the lowest attendance in the last few years- why would anyone think this will change if it is there permanently?
I have been to the AECs and hope to get there again but I won’t even consider going to Texas for it. Sorry neither my job nor my resources are going to allow for that.[/QUOTE]

Never said your opinion was not worthy, just said that you guys have given your opinions on this issue repeatedly, so it’s already well-known. For this reason, I wanted to get the opinions of people on the other side of the equation because, while they may not be as vocal as you guys are, their opinions count as well.

Again, I’m against it permanently being in any one location. I’m just trying to look at possible reasons for the decision to do that. Were west coast entries up/down/the same this last year? Does anyone know?

I know that entries overall were lower, which is a combination of both location and the economy.

Reed- isn’t your SO a Texan? =P

#22

My understanding is that entries overall were lower, but that a significantly greater number of states were represented. I’m not sure if there were many more entries from the West Coast-- they posted a map at one point IIRC but I didn’t really pay attention.

#23

I guess when someone who wrote an article in COTH posts the article asking for opinions about the article they wrote, it rubs me the wrong way when someone else posts on the thread telling me (and everyone else in a 4 state area) she does not want to hear my opinion (and clearly indicates we should just keep quiet on this thread) because other people who live in my very general geographic area have already expressed an opinion on the general topic in the past and you don’t care what other people in that area think. shrug. Not a huge deal - just one I commented on
Sorry- derailment of thread over.
Back to your regularly scheduled programming :slight_smile:

#24

“More than half (60.28%) of the USEA’s 11,528 members live in the eastern third of the United States (Areas I, II, III and VIII), while 6.91 percent of members live in Area X and 21.95 percent are in Areas X, IX, IV and V combined. The remaining 16.98 percent of USEA members live on the West Coast, Areas VI and VII.”

Why would we permanently make TX the permanent place to host the AEC’s? The article quotes Carol K and gives a lot of good reasons why not as well as bringing up the fact that combing the AEC and ATC is a terrible idea…

(Carol) “I think going into Texas, the USEA knew they were going to struggle [with upper level entries], so they got that enormous sponsorship [of $40,000 for the advanced division], and that didn’t even do it,” she said of this year’s 13 advanced entries. “We’re seeing a trend. Now that Plantation [Field International (Pa.)] has the CICs the week before, people are going to stay in the Northeast with their upper level horses.”

#25

I’m all for it – provided it helps kill off the AECs sooner rather than later. :smiley:

I’ve thought the AECs were an unfeasible idea from the start. The size of the US and the demographics of eventing just aren’t suitable for ‘national championships’ at the LLs, and we have the CCIs for the ULs. The allocation of USEA resources and eventing sponsorship dollars to this glorified, unreachable-for-most HT simply doesn’t make sense.

#26

Also from the article, Carol K said
“There is not a huge polling of the masses, so my recommendation would be for these lower-level riders to start writing letters to your new president [Diane Pitts],” she added. “They’ve got to speak up, or everyone is going to assume that they’re OK with that decision.”

So, maybe we should do a joint letter from anyone on COTH who disagrees with this decision.

They also cited numbers showing that representation from 35 states this year was the same (35) as last year at Chatt. But 150 more horses at Chatt.

I think it was a perfectly good idea to have it in TX. And it should go to Rebecca or Galway. I will miss it, and hope that when it comes back around I have a horse, as I really enjoyed the one I went to. But…

#27

I think that you are hearing mostly from East Coasters because the majority of USEA members compete on the East Coast. Despite that, however, I do think that the AEC’s should cycle through all regions of the country.

#28

If its permanently in TX I will never go. While I’m in Area III, so pseudo east coast towards the midline, KY, Il., GA etc are all reasonable, if still not short hauls. I do agree that it should rotate, hit the west coast then cycle back around. But permanently in one location is insanity, especially a location so far from the main population of USEA’s competitors.

#29

I’m in Area VIII, within an hour of the KHP. I’ll admit that I feel very spoiled to be so close to such a great venue. It’s really the only nice venue in Lexington (one show does hold its XC at a county park) so I do travel between 1.5-3 hours for different venues. I have also travelled south/east in the early winter or late fall. My farthest event ended up being about 10 hours in Aiken the year that I-40 was closed. I don’t like going that far, though, as I own a terrible hauler and my other horses that I’ve owned have gotten very nervous and ulcery on long rides. I hate watching my horses go off their feed, knowing that it’s directly related to me shoving them in a trailer for 8-10 hours; it makes me more nervous than any sort of XC course ever could.

Not being on the East Coast, I can’t exactly say that other venues for the AECs have been particularly close. Lamplight would’ve been the closest at 6.5 hours (as per Google Maps, so no trailer attached and no unexpected traffic). I’ve been to the Carolina Horse Park, and that ends up being over 8 hours. That’s not exactly what I consider close or convenient- but I’d do it.

I qualified for the AECs this year with one of my horses. The other was one clean XC shy of qualifying despite starting his eventing career in May, but it wasn’t worth it to me to even get him fully qualified because I knew I would not be going to Texas. As a student in what I consider difficult classes, there was NO way I could miss that much school. Especially in the classes and labs where attendance is required- while teachers are happy to excuse university athletes, family emergencies, and doctor-documented illnesses, “I wanted to to ride my pony” isn’t on that list (and often that’s how outsiders see the sport when you try to explain that it’s a sport). I think it would take a lot of saving and effort to get myself to one of the east coast venues, but Texas just isn’t feasible. I don’t have a problem with the AECs being out of my reach for the next 5 years or so if they stay at Texas and then move westward. But I’m just not ok with them being out of my reach forever unless I relocate.

And as for the ATCs, I was really thinking I’d like to try my hand at them as I remember them being at VA and Cobblestone in recent years, and those are both very feasible venues for me. Now they are off my radar. Area VIII Championships will be the only championships I will be attending, should I qualify again.

#30

Another spoiled Area II rider here.

I’ve yet to attend an AEC. I’ve just never been mounted on horse flesh worthy or entering, and the couple of times I’ve qualified, it hasn’t been worth the expense, even for closer venues (taking a solid training horse to run a novice event 6-12 hours away hasn’t never been worth the cost to me). Vernon and I qualified at prelim…but we qualified for the horse division…it was SO not worth the expense to me to compete my horse against all the same horses he’d been finishing DFL to all year (plus all the intermediate horses who’d qualified!). No matter how great the experience, the math I did came to about $900 to take him to Chatt to, most likely, finish DFL AGAIN. I spent the money on a CIC and a P3DE instead.

Anyway, getting a little off topic there. All that being said, up until Texas, all the AECs have been close enough for me to feel like they were worth the trip had I felt I’d have been remotely competitive. I have no qualms with driving to Chatt or Lamplight (I make the drive to Chicago on a regular basis to visit my sister!). Both are a long but doable day’s drive. Texas is not and I wouldn’t conceive of hauling my horse for two days for a horse trial. Because I’m a spoiled Area II rider, I can BARELY wrap my mind around that for a three day!!!

I think doing this would be the end of the AECs. I’m very indifferent to them, at best, but I think they would quickly die out, within a few short years, if they made their permanent home at Texas Rose. I think it is MUCH better to keep them moving around. I might not go to Galway or Rebecca, but hopefully in a few years, when they are a reasonable distance away, I’ll have something worthy of the expense!

#31

another issue with having the AECs in a permanent location is the fun and excitement of having a new location every few years. I can envision going to Texas once but not twice. It is too far to drive year after year. I would guess that the entries will decline across the years as the novelty of the venue wears off, in concert with the long distance for many.

I also am from Area 2 and yes, the reality is that we do not travel long distances that often. That being said, I would consider traveling more than one day for a very special event during a very special year with a very special horse. Once. But certainly not twice.

#32

Ok.
I drive for a living. I grew up and began eventing in the west. Now live east. Don’t look down your nose at driving a few more hours in east coast traffic. When you say 5 hours in the west it is a WAY different sort of drive than five hours stop go stop go turn, stop go in the east. Long drives are tough on everyone and even shorter trips are hard in heavy traffic on old, narrow roads with lots of stop lights. We all have it tough to continue eventing in these times, all of us, all over the country. We are all eventers. We are in this together.

It is hard on horses to be shipped all over the country. This is a big country. We can’t do what the British do in their country the size of one of our states. We can’t have a truly national championship with all levels in one place and not stress out the horses. JER is right. The AEC’s do suck a huge amount of money out of eventing. Carol is right. Many of her points are very well taken. It is very very discouraging to the people in Area I for instance to lose the ATC’s as a doable year end goal. Molly is right. Her statistics show Texas is really not the right place for the population spread of the organization, but the money has already been spent there to build the course and facility. I think we’re stuck there. I say “we” and that surely will not happen for “me”. I’ll NEVER be able to go to Texas unless I find out one of the Mega Million winners is a long lost relative who feels generous.

#33

The problem with keeping it permanently in Texas is also the fact that while some will make the long trek from the West Coast or Areas 1 and 2, they will not do it multiple times. Maybe for two or three years. But in all seriousness, once you’ve done the AECs a couple times, is it really worth driving 20+ hours every.single.year? I can understand going once or twice for the experience of competing at AECs, but after that its all the same, especially if its at the same venue. This will only drop numbers further and will ensure the demise of the AECs.

Another thing to think about is course design. Sure, you can build new jumps. Sure, lots of jumps are portable which gives designers more freedom with keeping the courses fresh. But you’re still running over the same piece of land, the same terrain, same water and bank complexes, etc. and after a few years how will this be different than those of us that attend the same local horse trial year after year? Minor changes, enough to keep it interesting, but similar year to year. If you’re basically running over the same course every year, is spending all that money/taking the time off from work/putting the stress on your horse really worth it? The USEA really did not think this one through, it is a terrible business decision.

#34

Just for the heck of it, I decided to do some math and calculated how much it would cost for the average adult amateur to attend the AECs in Texas from the Northeast.

From southern CT, the trip is 1608 miles and would take 23 hours and 15 minutes. Add in traffic, rest stop breaks, stops for gas fill ups, etc., lets call it 25 hours. The average gas price in the United States is $3.22 (I assure you it is much higher in the northeast :winkgrin:) which means gas for the entire trip there and back is going to run you about $517, assuming you’re lucky enough to get about 20 miles to the gallon, which is highly unlikely when pulling a trailer.

I am sure there are some people who would drive straight through, but I, personally, would have a stopover and split the driving into two days. The average price I found for a horse to layover somewhere is about $30. You then need a hotel room for you. The national average for a decent hotel room is $90. These two combined makes $120 and you need to do it there and back so call it $240.

Next comes the hotel while you are actually at the AECs. Again going by the national average (and the price per night of the ‘Official hotel of the AECs’ in 2013) this will run you about $90 per night. I assume you would not want to pull your horse off the trailer Thursday night after a 25 hour trip and do dressage first thing the next morning, so lets imagine you aim to get there Wednesday which means 4 nights of hotels: $360.

Next we should add up food. Let’s say $10 a day for breakfast, $15 for lunch, and $30 for dinner, if you’re lucky. $55 a day for the 4 days you’re there plus the 4 traveling days is $440.

The actual entry with the early discount for the lower levels is $335. Stabling is $250 for the whole weekend. I’m assuming you have enough room in your truck/trailer to bring your own hay/feed/shavings so I will not add that, as you would have to purchase it whether you were at home or at the AECs.

Considering most adult amateurs have M-F 9-5 jobs with unpaid vacation days, lets say you take Tuesday-Tuesday off of a job that makes you $60,000 a year. You’ll lose about $1000+ that you would have made had you been at work.

So lets add this all up, shall we?
Gas: $517 round trip
Layover for horse and hotel for human(s): $240 both ways
Hotel for 4 nights: $360
Food for the duration for 2-3 people: $440
Entry and stabling: $585
Money missed from working: $1,000

All for a grand total of $3,142.

This doesn’t include paying your trainer if you have one, or hiring a braider if you need one, or calling AAA when you get a flat tire, or anything else extra. Obviously everybody is a little different, you may get paid vacation days, or someone may offer you a free trailer ride or whatever, but as an example, it’ll cost you about $3,000. If you WIN the BN division you get $3,300…

$3,000 would cover my entire eventing season and a clinic or two at home. I don’t understand the appeal of dropping that kind of money on a glorified horse trial. Maybe once for the experience, but it just doesn’t seem worth it to me. Your horse could bang himself in the trailer on the way down, or spook and jump out of the dressage ring, or pull a shoe on xc and not be sound to jump the last day, or a million other things.

This is why the AECs should continue to move: so that the vast majority of eventers don’t have to spend $3,000 to attend. I’m perfectly okay with it in Texas right now. I would love for it to go out to Galway for three years. But leaving it in Texas permanently is probably the worst thing that could happen for the AECs.

#35

That math is staggering…and I think it is a conservative estimate.

#36

To me, Texas Rose is not a ‘destination event’. I’ve been to good old regular HT there, and to me, that’s exactly what the AECs felt like.

Chatt Hills did a phenomenal job, in my opinion. Even the AECs had a different feel to them than a regular HT…more ‘special’. Does that make sense? Plus, of course the facility is just beautiful, so you get that WOW factor. One of my great friends came from Area 5 last year to compete, and I loved watching them walk around just in wonder of the property. She was competing BN, and to her it felt like Rolex.

I thought CHP did a good job, too. I’ll give them a pass since it was near the beginning of the whole AEC concept. I didn’t go to Lamplight…maybe someone can fill us in on the atmosphere?

And, that’s it… That’s just what Tx Rose lacked. Atmosphere. I’m not slamming them at all…they put on a good event. But, it didn’t feel any different. Not even special. We heard they placed flags at the entry for all the states represented. That’s a great idea, but you only saw them if you entered from a certain direction! It was totally lost on us for the first two days, as well as on everyone else who didn’t know the ‘back way’!

And, let’s face it… The US is a huge place. It positively should move around. Give the different facilities the chance to showcase themselves. Allow them to market to the audience. Give them the chance to put on such an amazing event that just like that old shampoo commercial, competitors tell two friends, who tell two friends, and so on and so on. Create a buzz… Create excitement. Create a destination that people WANT to come to.

And, is no one going to mention the lack of adult beverages at this years AECs?? The fact that Tyler is partially dry should be enough to raise some hackles and make the USEA reconsider a permanent location!

#37

My objections to ANY permanent site for the AEC’s and ATC’s:
Many competitors will never attend because the site is too far away
Check fuel prices lately?
September is a rough time for anyone attending school, especially if they have 1-2 travel days either direction
Same for working folks with limited vacation time - see DC’s post
The AEC’s absolutely kill any events immediately before and after - check attendance at those area events around the prior AEC’s
Very difficult to make 2 distinct competitions SPECIAL when they are run concurrently
Part of the fun, at least for the onlooker, of different AEC sites is learning more about the different Eventing Areas. Plus each Area has the opportunity to shine and promote what makes their Area unique.

#38

Ditto on the terrible idea. And I went to Chicago from VA.
Question 1: Why so low on the UL entries?
Question 2: Why even ask the question of a permanent venue? What’s the motivating factor???
If you’re going to have it west, have it at Rebecca where there are travel grants and it’s not biting into the European trips and CCI’s in the fall.
If you’re going to have it in TX, then put up travel grants to get ULR’s there.
ATC’s with AEC’s? Hmmm, if you put it in the form of putting a team together and your AEC score counts as part of the ATC. Plus a team can be put together if you don’t qualify for the AEC’s. Then that would be interesting and entertaining. I’ve helped win 2 ATC’s and sucked wind at the AEC’s. So, we’re team competitors ;o)

#39

[QUOTE=Muffin;7320056]

And, is no one going to mention the lack of adult beverages at this years AECs?? The fact that Tyler is partially dry should be enough to raise some hackles and make the USEA reconsider a permanent location![/QUOTE]

:eek: Well that’s enough to convince me!

And I hate to bring up politics ;), but with the high percentage of women in the sport, why support Texas and their extremely regressive, anti-women politics?

#40

We are eventers. Alcohol is part of the competition whether to prepare for XC or to recover from XC. Having the AECs in a dry county is just further proof of how people are destroying the sport.

Also, if I want to see a bunch of Texans, I can just stay here in Colorado.

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