Age limit forcing retirement of top judges as CDI numbers increase

[Silverbridge]

“The retirements of three of the four United States judges–Gary Rockwell and Anne Gribbons this year, Linda Zang in 2019–come at the same time as retirements of one 5* of three officials in Australia, the sole remaining Canadian and Italian 5* officials as well as at least four other judges who become 72 years old by the end of 2019.”

http://dressage-news.com/2018/05/16/three-of-4-of-americas-top-judges-retiring-by-end-of-2019-changes-in-sport-under-review/

"So far this year, the official FEI calendar lists 177 events, including the World Equestrian Games in Tryon, North Carolina and the World Cup Final. Both require panels of seven judges as well as three-member judges supervisory panels.

In 2009, there were 28 judges at the same level while the number of events around the world totaled 126. Ground juries at major championships were five judges, no supervisory panel.

In the same period, the number of shows increased by 40 per cent over the decade while the roster of 5* judges grew by 25 per cent."

[hoopoe]

it is really a shame that there is an age cut off with no consideration of the physical and mental capability of the judge.

[Belowthesalt]

Yes, I hardly think Lilo Fire (72,I believe), for one, is incapable of still being an excellent judge.

[Knubbsy]

That’s interesting, I hadn’t heard about Linda retiring. My trainer brings her in occasionally for lessons, she seems pretty with it to me.

[hoopoe]

that is what I mean, Linda and Lilo as well, such great communicators forced to sign off from the FEI. I don’t remember what USE rules are.

[Manahmanah]

i don’t fully understand how this is legal.

[digihorse]

Yup… and we lost Hilda and Axel just a couple of years ago for the same reason. Hilda who still rides 6-10 horses a day and Axel who does “mock judging” at the CDIs with his commentary. Obviously can no longer see the end of the ring :eyeroll: Its not right… but leave it to the FEI to muck it up

[merrygoround]

The problem is like grandpa’s driving. No one wants to take away the keys from those who need to lose them. There have been judges in the past who really should not have been judging at 70.

So now they have thrown out the baby with the bath water.

[MysticOakRanch]

@hoopoe

that is what I mean, Linda and Lilo as well, such great communicators forced to sign off from the FEI. I don’t remember what USE rules are.

USE has no rules regarding retirement age. So those judges can still preside at non-CDI shows. Ridiculous rule that might have made a bit more sense 50 years ago, but as health care gets better, and health gets better, 70 is the new 50! I think they should reconsider and perhaps retroactively change the mandatory retirement age to 77?

[rothmpp]

@Manahmanah

i don’t fully understand how this is legal.

One of the problems is that the FEI is not USA based, legally, so what would be considered discriminatory in the US is not necessarily the legal basis for them. And the judges and officials that they license come from many different countries with different discrimination laws.

@MysticOakRanch

USE has no rules regarding retirement age. So those judges can still preside at non-CDI shows. Ridiculous rule that might have made a bit more sense 50 years ago, but as health care gets better, and health gets better, 70 is the new 50! I think they should reconsider and perhaps retroactively change the mandatory retirement age to 77?

Or perhaps add some cognitive or sight testing that they must have each year over a certain age to retain their FEI card?

[MysticOakRanch]

@rothmpp

Or perhaps add some cognitive or sight testing that they must have each year over a certain age to retain their FEI card?

Heck, they could do that at all ages - I don’t think it is a bad idea. I look at some of those FEI judges who have had to retire and think “what a loss to our sport”…

While I do agree, there is a point where judges (and everyone else!) needs to retire, 70 seems too young for many of these people… I like the idea of cognitive and vision testing!

[2tempe]

@Manahmanah

i don’t fully understand how this is legal.

All companies and organizations can (and mostly do) set retirement ages either for employees or board members. It is perfectly legal.

I will tell you that I am on a corporate board that does NOT have a retirement age, and it has its own set of challenges…
But one of the problems is not cognitive or sight - it is stamina - and I see people fading as the day goes on.

Part of the benefit of retirement ages is that it allows succession planning to be started well in advance. Have to wonder if the FEI is, in fact, doing things to insure they have enough judges.

[BigMama1]

The loss of judges at the top is a big issue but the bigger one is the lack of a system to encourage more judges at the bottom and develop them to the top to fill the pipeline

[tm1]

@digihorse

Yup… and we lost Hilda and Axel just a couple of years ago for the same reason. Hilda who still rides 6-10 horses a day and Axel who does “mock judging” at the CDIs with his commentary. Obviously can no longer see the end of the ring :eyeroll: Its not right… but leave it to the FEI to muck it up

We did the math on this about 15 years ago and spoke up about the fact that right about now - this year and next - the FEI would lose about 25% of its senior judges (and other officials: course designers & stewards are beholden to the same age limit!)… Folks just shrugged. If the FEI is really stuck on its age limit, we feel that if nothing else it should create a 5* Emeritus status that would allow this irreplaceable brain trust to be active in guiding the sport and continue judging non-championship CDIs. Instead, the FEI’s attitude seems to be that once retired, officials should just vanish into the ether.

Yes, being “retired” by the FEI has allowed Axel more time to do commentary and teach more clinics all over the country, and he still judges national shows, but he misses being a part of the panel judging that is the standard at CDIs… He’s always said that judging in panels is the best way to maintain your judging prowess.

[Silverbridge]

@BigMama1

The loss of judges at the top is a big issue but the bigger one is the lack of a system to encourage more judges at the bottom and develop them to the top to fill the pipeline

This was my thought after reading the report, also. Particularly with the point being made about the increasing number of International events.

With a smaller pool of officials to draw from, the demand will be greater and it could lead to scheduling problems if it hasn’t already. People wishing to hold a CDI in one location might find themselves unable to book seven judges because they’re scheduled for the same weekend in other parts of the Country or the world. And then the costs will go up because the remaining group will expect and deserve increased compensation.

So in addition to grandfathering in some of the aging top officials, I think the FEI (and the national orgs) all need to step up their programs for developing new judges. And making it all more appealing and encouraging.

[MysticOakRanch]

@Silverbridge

With a smaller pool of officials to draw from, the demand will be greater and it could lead to scheduling problems if it hasn’t already. People wishing to hold a CDI in one location might find themselves unable to book seven judges because they’re scheduled for the same weekend in other parts of the Country or the world. And then the costs will go up because the remaining group will expect and deserve increased compensation.

Even worse, the cost will go up because of TRAVEL expenses. Especially once you get out of Europe, where there are many small countries close to each other, and many FEI judges… The selection of judges in other countries (besides the EU and the US) is pretty slim - and when running an FEI show, the show managers are VERY aware of those travel costs, and try to minimize them as much as possible - flying a judge from The Netherlands (for example) is a LOT more expensive then flying a judge from Mexico (for example) to a US venue.

I wonder if anyone on the FEI committee is considering these real-life issues?

And this is all on top of the brain drain from the Judging pool…

[digihorse]

@BigMama1

The loss of judges at the top is a big issue but the bigger one is the lack of a system to encourage more judges at the bottom and develop them to the top to fill the pipeline

Its not a lack of a system. Its the cost! To become an S judge is $10K + (and that was a few years ago…) I dare say it is closer to $20K now. THEN you have to have completed by your early 50’s, or the USEF will not offer promotion to FEI I level. Who as a young professional can take the time to accomplish that during their best years as a pro? Especially in the US. We don’t have the luxury of umteen CDI’s within a few hours travel as they do in Europe. The process needs to be rethought.

[rothmpp]

@digihorse

Its not a lack of a system. Its the cost! To become an S judge is $10K + (and that was a few years ago…) I dare say it is closer to $20K now. THEN you have to have completed by your early 50’s, or the USEF will not offer promotion to FEI I level. Who as a young professional can take the time to accomplish that during their best years as a pro? Especially in the US. We don’t have the luxury of umteen CDI’s within a few hours travel as they do in Europe. The process needs to be rethought.

The cost of even getting your L graduate is in the thousands. For me, part 1 was $800 JUST for the program fee. That doesn’t cover travel, lodging, food, & loss of income. Part 2 was $1500 - again just for the program. And you have to do that before you can even think about the small r. Anecdotally - I’ve heard from R judges that some of them get desperate enough for the judging hours to get into the large R that they will offer their services to shows for free.

Then there is the limited number of programs available each year, both 1 & 2. Which is often directly related to the limited number of shows that are willing to host the part 2 testing.

And that doesn’t even begin to cover the the time & expense to have the requisite show scores for th various levels.

[dotneko]

You are correct, Digihorse, on the cost. I just completed my S and it cost me 16,000. Not including lost lessons, judging, coaching income and paying staff extra to cover the farm while I was away. This was solely the classroom, apprenticings, testing, hiring scribes etc. I turn 60 this year, so that is as far as I will go - not that if I was 10 years younger I would try for FEI. I wouldn’t. The difference in judging income is about 75 dollars more a day from a R to S. Yes, I will have more assignments, but even 10 more dates a year will make a return on investment sometime in 2030s lol. I do it because I love the sport.
I was fortunate in that I received both a grant from NEDA and TDF to defray about 25% of it.

[CHT]

I agree that Canada and the US need to look at making it more cost effective for new judges to come up the ranks. The type of riders (In my area) that have the horses to get the scores at the levels required to get their S judges card, don’t have the motivation to put the time, effort and $$ into becoming a judge of that level. I am not sure if something changed to make it harder, or if it is just that coaches/trainers have to work that much harder to keep their business going, and so don’t have the same ability to pursue judging.

I also think associations should be more on top of tracking/encouraging officials when it looks like there will be a shortage (thinking more for Stewards/TD’s), but it might motivate someone to pursue getting carded if they know there is upcoming demand.