The Comfyfit harness is available in leather, so I would assume you can buy just the bridle in leather as well.
I also know the Comfyfit harness is available with a leather lining, so I would assume the bridle would have this, too…
Call Janie at Chimacum. She is great to work with and can answer any questions.
Bridle & bit photos
So here we have side & front views of a rather disgruntled pony modeling his clearly-too-big-now-that-I-take-a-close-look-at-it bridle when he would rather be eating supper, plus an indication that the bit really is too big - possibly by a full inch.
My White Trash Bit Sizer (patent pending) / railroad spike has been marked just outside his lip when the head of the spike is just outside the opposite lip.
Looks to me like I’ve got a 5" bit in a 4" mouth - does it look that way to you? That’s clearly contributing to the bridle-sizing issue, so I’m thinking I need to get him a bit that fits (and a caveson), and then see about making the bridle fit.
Do driving cavesons fit like riding cavesons, or are they different?
Looking at the front view, I’m thinking that when I had the overcheck on, it was holding the bit in place so it didn’t flop out to the sides like that.
Thanks once again for all the input and support, guys!
No opinions on the photos? <she asked wistfully>
In my opinion, the bit fits perfectly fine in his mouth. You cannot see any of the actual bit bar outside of his mouth, only the snaffle ring, which is what you want. It’s when the bit bar sticks out of the mouth that you know the bit is too big.
But the cheek pieces on the bridle sit out too far from his face. They should be against the sides of the face, not have a gap. Plus the pony has no “wrinkles” in the corners of his mouth, that I can tell on the pictures.
I think you need a smaller bridle, not a smaller bit. Or at least punch holes in the bridle to make it smaller.
With my 36" mini, I got the smallest bridle I could find, and it was still too big, so I punched extra holes. I’ve got a big “tail” of strap that flails away from the keeper near the buckles on the cheek pieces, but at least the bridle does fit her, and she has wrinkles.
From the little I’ve learned about cavessons on driving bridles, you do want one to be a totally separate piece from the bridle if you’re using a snaffle. So definitely add a cavesson if you want one. I bought a harness for a mini that didn’t have a cavesson, and I prefer to use one, so I bought this for it:
It was perfect for my needs.
As I understand it, with the mechanics of cavessons with a snaffle bit - a separate cavesson will simply act to assist in keeping the mouth closed (and aesthetically give the appearance of a “finished” bridle). The English/Dressage person in me can’t live without one purely based on looks.
Some driving bridles have a the noseband actually built on to the whole bridle, not as an adjustable piece. I think if I remember correctly this was not considered good with a snaffle because since the noseband is literally connected to the same piece you attach the bit to, when you use the reins, the nose band is additional pressure onto the bit everytime you pull the reins.
However, then I was also told that for a leverage bit, or something like a glory bit, you would want the noseband actually attached directly to the driving bridle, because it helps (slightly) keep the bit stay in proper parallel to the horse’s mouth when you use the reins, and assists in providing proper leverage (almost like using a bit keeper on a full cheek riding bit, as I understand it).
I think I said that right? Maybe someone can correct me. I learned this a little over a year ago. I just remember the clinician saying that for a snaffle, you do want a separate cavesson.
That being said, 3 of my 4 harnesses all have separate cavessons. The 4th one, for my horse, has an attached noseband that is part of the bridle, and I use a French Link Snaffle with him, and certainly have never noticed any type of problem that could be associated with unwanted pressure on the bit.
How can the bit not be too big if it’s the same size that my horses use, and their mouths are wider than the pony’s?
I think the reason it doesn’t stick out on either side of his lips is that it’s jointed, so the joint is hanging down. If the cheek pieces were shorter, the bit would be sticking out the sides of his mouth.
Let’s see if I can horsie stick-art what I think the bit looks like in his mouth 
…o…o
…/
Not terribly good, but does it make sense?
(And thanks for the caveson link!)
Ok, I’ll say it. Bit looks too big and it looks like it is hanging too low in his mouth.
Not a fan of snaffles in driving, btw, and neither are most of the trainers I work with here who are far more knowledgable about such things than I.
Yup. Toooooo bigggggg.
Yah know, I thought I’d go out and check all the old pony driving bridles and harness (stuff we never use anymore) hanging on the wall and see if I have something that you might try for fitting. <My goodness, but there was a lot hanging there - including all the Thoroughbred harness from years ago. Full collars and hames, lovely saddles, some really nice stuff, all gathering dust. Forgot how much we’ve accumulated over the last 40 years…>
Anyway, if you can measure your bridle from the point of the crown (where the blinkers are attached at the poll) to where the bit is attached (the bend in the leather), and then let me know how many inches it is, I will let you know if the 17" pony bridle I have might work better for you. As a loan, just to try out the size.
I also have a 4" mullen mouth pony Buxton bit (like a Liverpool but with a curved bar connecting the shanks) -photo here - bit “D”). It gives enough leverage and enough rein position that you can pick and choose how much, or little, severity you want to prevent the little bugger from buggering off again at his whim. He’d look pretty darn fancy in that thing. I can loan that to you, too - just to try out. From one foxhunter to another. 
And now for something completely different.
It is hard to tell exactly how the session went, but from your description it was a lot of turn, stop, turn, stop, stand. That is important, but even in the early stages, it has to be balanced with real GO. I’ve found that if a mental and physical release of a trot that the horse would consider forward (as opposed to what most people on their feet think is forward) is given, they will mind much better and start to consider their work enjoyable play. Consider that if, in a car you stand too long on the brakes and steering, they start to wear out and work less efficiently. Sort of the same thing happens with horses.
Horses have a need for movement. If we are confident enough to actively allow and even ask for what they would consider real movement and then intersperse it (smoothly) with stop, turn, GO, stand, turn, stop, things go fine. If we keep ratcheting them down with no release, they get torqued off and take things into their own hands.
And don’t be a cookie hoarder, girl. Life is uncertain, give the cookies when they do good or very good work. Don’t wait for perfect. The pursuit of perfect is the enemy of the very good.
Blah blah blah. Sorry. Good luck.
Ah! I understand. I didn’t consider how far down in the mouth that the joint was sitting.
I rechecked the pictures and I definitely do not see wrinkles on the corners of the cheek, so you need some adjustment there -and probably a smaller bridle.
[QUOTE=Risk-Averse Rider;6334769]
How can the bit not be too big if it’s the same size that my horses use, and their mouths are wider than the pony’s?
I think the reason it doesn’t stick out on either side of his lips is that it’s jointed, so the joint is hanging down. If the cheek pieces were shorter, the bit would be sticking out the sides of his mouth.
Let’s see if I can horsie stick-art what I think the bit looks like in his mouth
…o…o
…/
Not terribly good, but does it make sense?
(And thanks for the caveson link!)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Camstock;6335459]
And now for something completely different.
It is hard to tell exactly how the session went, but from your description it was a lot of turn, stop, turn, stop, stand. That is important, but even in the early stages, it has to be balanced with real GO. I’ve found that if a mental and physical release of a trot that the horse would consider forward (as opposed to what most people on their feet think is forward) is given, they will mind much better and start to consider their work enjoyable play. Consider that if, in a car you stand too long on the brakes and steering, they start to wear out and work less efficiently. Sort of the same thing happens with horses.
Horses have a need for movement. If we are confident enough to actively allow and even ask for what they would consider real movement and then intersperse it (smoothly) with stop, turn, GO, stand, turn, stop, things go fine. If we keep ratcheting them down with no release, they get torqued off and take things into their own hands.
And don’t be a cookie hoarder, girl. Life is uncertain, give the cookies when they do good or very good work. Don’t wait for perfect. The pursuit of perfect is the enemy of the very good.
Blah blah blah. Sorry. Good luck.[/QUOTE]
Good point. I don’t trust him enough yet to let him trot while being ground-driven, so we were just walking. Lots of changes of direction & speed - we were definitely worshiping at Our Lady of Perpetual Transitions, with no opportunity for any enthusiastic "Hallelujah!"s
I hoard treats with him because he’s so fruit-battin’ nippy. He gets lots & lots of "GOOD BOY!"s while he’s working, but no treats. Treats are for when he’s done. And he picks them up off the ground; he doesn’t get to snag them out of my hand.
We generally do pretty short sessions (10-15 minutes) - this one dragged on because I had to make him behave after he was a snot.
But good things to think about - how can I vary what we’re doing so he’s not so restricted, and how can I reward him without risking losing a finger!
Thanks.:yes:
[QUOTE=gothedistance;6335377]
Anyway, if you can measure your bridle from the point of the crown (where the blinkers are attached at the poll) to where the bit is attached (the bend in the leather), and then let me know how many inches it is, I will let you know if the 17" pony bridle I have might work better for you. As a loan, just to try out the size.
I also have a 4" mullen mouth pony Buxton bit (like a Liverpool but with a curved bar connecting the shanks) -photo here - bit “D”). It gives enough leverage and enough rein position that you can pick and choose how much, or little, severity you want to prevent the little bugger from buggering off again at his whim. He’d look pretty darn fancy in that thing. I can loan that to you, too - just to try out. From one foxhunter to another. :D[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the loan offers - my bridle measures 17" from the middle of the crown down to where the bit attaches.
I just tried to see if I could possibly shorten it one more hole (Driving Clinic Guy punched extra holes in it), but the reinforcing layer of leather on the cheek piece goes down too far. 17" is as short as it’s going to get.
When I look at the photo of the bridle on him, even with the cheek pieces hanging out to the side, the bend in the leather is only an inch - possibly 2, but really more like 1 - above the corner of his mouth. So even with a bit that fits, that bridle will not fit 
<timeout while RAR heads out to the barn with a tape measure>
From the corner of his mouth to the center of his crown is 18" - 18.5" (he was wiggling, and was a little hard to guess exactly where the middle of his Don King forelock was)
sigh
Interesting-looking bit. What does the bar at the bottom do? Is that called a “slobber bar”?
Interesting-looking bit. What does the bar at the bottom do? Is that called a “slobber bar”?
No, it’s to prevent a rein from getting caught under the shank. These bits are usually found on a pair, but there is no problem with using one for a single as well.
I’ll have to ask a friend of mine is she still has her Section A Welsh Mountain pony’s driving bridle. He’s now ancient and no longer driving, but I don’t think she ever sold his harness…
Does he have a riding bridle? Is there any reason, apart from no blinkers that you can’t use it? I’ve always been taught to start them off without blinkers - add later if you want, but they need to see and know what’s behind them, so if by some chance they loose the blinker in the future they don’t panic and bolt.
I worked with some friends who were starting a very strong, very inclined to take off pony. They used a mullen mouth snaffle - pony less inclined to put its head in the air or get hit in the roof of its mouth with the joint - and they attached the reins to the turrets then threaded them through the bit rings and through the tugs - a bit like running reins for ridden horses. The pony went from tanking off to halting very nicely thank you very much! One session was all it took.
You could also “double lunge” your pony before actually driving him - then you can get him trotting - and once he has had a little excercise, move from double lunging to driving without having to change and gear.
I have two ponies in harness at the moment. The little tiny one needs to be hitched and asked to trot for about 5 minutes. Then he has the manners of an anget and will stop and stand beautifully. Otherwise he’s very towey. The other one just prefers stop all the way - ridden or in harness, halt is his favourite pace.
phoebetrainer
All I’m doing with him at this point is ground-driving him (if you can call it that). I’m thinking I should just plain longe him first, then try ground-driving. Interesting that you mentioned putting him in sort of upside-down draw reins. I had been thinking about doing something like that, because when I long-line my big boys, that really gives me a lot more braking power.
Thanks for the suggestion!
He does not have a riding bridle.
gothedistance
Ah. That makes sense.
I measured Mr. Pony last night - 36" from mouth corner to mouth corner, ~ 17" where the caveson would be, and ~ 11" for the browband. That part of my existing bridle seems to fit, it’s just the length that’s off
RAR, Many of the online mini tack stores also sell Shetland/small pony sizes. Ozark Minitack is a good one and sells individual harness parts as well as full harnesses.
Ron’s Harness sells mini A & B, Shetland, and small pony. Their tack is not pretty, but pretty well made, well-padded and inexpensive. (Their online pricing calculator doesn’t always work right, so I’d call to ask for the price for the size you need.)
I have borrowed a bridle that I think will work - or at least, it will tell me more about what I need 
It’s from Chimacum tack, and it belongs to a mini. I also have his 4" bit (single-jointed half cheek) to try, which should give me some idea of whether or not that’s the right size.
I measured the bridle, and it seems to be in the right size range.
Stay tuned!
So much for THAT theory!
The bridle I borrowed is too small.
So if I’ve had the Papa Bear bridle and the Baby Bear bridle, the next one should be JUST RIGHT, right?
The 4" bit fit him, at least. Too bad I could only manage to get the bridle over 1 ear :lol:
And the caveson - fuhgeddaboudit. The crown strap was probably 5" - 6" too short.
But at least I have more data, now. And I can say, “the bridle with these measurements was too big, and the bridle with these measurements was too small”.
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