Ahhhh, Scrappy T could have won it but for...

Hi All,
I’ll be honest - this is the first time I’ve seen the racing board get testy and I’m a bit disappointed. This board has always been a safe haven away from some of the other boards. But, even though people have gotten testy, no one has gotten overtly nasty and I thank you all for that. We’re all allowed to get testy from time to time

The racing rules are the rules and they are enforced nationally in 99% of all cases. Scrappy T did not interfere with any other horse but Afleet Alex, and hence his second place finish stands. This is how it is done in this sport.

If Ramon had purposefully tried to ‘take out’ AA, that would be a different story. It is not for the stewards to punish the horse’s owners (in this case Scrappy T) for an act of unpredicted horse drifting. The stewards in this sport do not punish the owners for random acts of horses (and we all know that horses sometimes do some interesting things…) UNLESS the jockey purposely did something horrible. I do not believe for ONE MINUTE that this is the case here. (I mean, this is not the 1980 Preakness where there was a real question of whether Angel Cordero on Codex purposefully took Genuine Risk and Jacinto Vasquez wide on the final turn and possibly slashed GR in the face…when I interviewed Jacinto for the book about Genuine Risk a few years ago the whole incident still angered him).

No matter what your thoughts are on what happened, please understand these are the rules of this sport. You may not like these rules, but this system has been tested over and over again and it works in this sport. I can not begin to imagine the mess that would ensue if every steward at every track tried to enforce an unrealistic placing of a horse that interfered with one other horse but no others to ‘punish’ the jockey. The lawsuits from the owners would be immediate and swift. Jockeys can be disciplined for rough or careless riding, but that should not affect the owners and the legitimate placement of the horse in regard to horses it DID NOT interfere with.

As it was, Ramon looked back twice as the interference was happening. He looked over his right shoulder and his left shoulder. He probably did this to see if the oncoming horse and jockey were okay and to see which way he should try to direct his horse at that point so as to not cause further problems. NO jockey ever wants to be the cause of another horse and rider coming down - they are part of a brotherhood. Jockeys may not always like one another, but they are not going to risk severely hurting another horse or jockey OR their own horse.

Once he was away from AA, it seemed Ramon backed off and just let Scrappy T gallop to the finish without overly pushing Scrappy. I feel for him because I’m sure he is upset by what happened, and I’m also sure he was disappointed that he could not deliver a win for the owners.

Having galloped a few horses that have drifted suddenly, and earned some real estate when they drifted, sometimes racehorses drift. It is a fact (it’s also why I breed and own now rather than gallop ). And it is a helpless feeling when it is happening to you. Everyone likes to think that jockeys have each horse under complete control at all times, but sometimes a horse just does SOMETHING. They prop, they runaway, and yes, they sometimes drift. You just can’t always keep them in ‘their’ lane. And, although Scrappy may have displayed some fussy running behavior in the past, that behavior was not in ANY way like what happened today, and to infer that he should have been schooled better is a bit ridiculous. The trainer is a fine horseman, and he has have worked and trained Scrappy in a meticulous way. Today was indeed a full scale drift but I don’t see that behavior in his past charts (please correct me if he has ever done a drift like this before).

As far as the controversy about Ramon hitting the horse left handed, I’m not going to comment directly because I don’t know how Scrappy T likes to be ridden. Some horses can not be hit on one side or the other due to their own idiosyncrasies.

No matter what, I’m glad that this incident did not end in tragedy. It could have be a horrible, horrible wreck. I respect both Jeremy Rose (isn’t he the cutest thing?) and yes, Ramon, for the way the situation turned out.

But, most of all, CONGRATULATIONS EMILY and all the connections of Scrappy T. I know this must be bittersweet for all of you, but your hard work and love of Scrappy is an inspiration. You have sacrificed countless hours, moved between Maryland, Delaware, and New York, and stayed hopeful and positive through the whole experience. You have been so hopeful, and you love Scrappy with a passion so fierce that I know at times it has brought tears to your eyes. Please remember, your boy ran second in the Preakness! What a ride it has been for you!

And, please, folks, realize that Emily is one of us and is probably having a night filled of thoughts of what might have been, and feeling a bit sad that the race went the way it did. BE KIND and understand no one in Scrappy T’s camp wanted this to happen. EVERYONE wanted a clean race.

Emily, to slightly misquote another Emily (Bronte in this case), no coward soul is yours. Hold your head high and continue to enjoy the ride Scrappy is giving you.

Hallie McEvoy
Racing Dreams, LLC

I never took anything away from Afleet Alex and Jeremy Rose. As I said, I think they both did one hell of a job. My point was that Scrappy T deserves more recognition then just the horse that clipped AA. Scrappy ran a great race against some good horses.

I mentioned the photo of Ramon looking through his legs to illustrate that even with the incident that Scrappy T still placed second by a comfortable margin.

Here are some links to view more photos.

SI Photos

Washington Post

Talk about what ifs

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7955463/

Proud Scrappy T supporter,

Charlie Mann
www.cmannphoto.com

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by CuriosoJorge:

I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that safety was a major concern for the stewards. Precisely because a horse or a human, or both, could have been killed because of Scrappy T’s actions, I think a stronger message would have been appropriate. I am clearly in the minority. If this were a MSW and an inexperienced horse, I would not be so quick to judge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A Jockey can be warned, fined, suspended or outright banned for dangerous riding.
But a horse can NOT be disqualified for actions that didn’t affect the result.

If you know of a precedent where what you’re saying has happened, or a rule that allows the stewards to do what you suggest, then let us know, but I can’t remember ever seeing it happen anywhere, not just stateside.

.

Windsor – Yep! That is the statue I “rode”! So it is Secretariat…I feel better now! I thought maybe I’d been mistaken all these years! L I felt very cool getting to sit on it. So that one isn’t there anymore? How sad! He was fun to sit on…good size for me!

Scrappy T didn’t interfere with Giacomo in any way at all, nor did the interference that happened improve his position in respect to Giacomo. He and Afleex Alex were lengths in front at the time. It would make no sense to disqualify him. He was going to finish second anyway, and the only horse that he interfered with beat him.

The jock had NO WAY to magically know the horse was going to react like that when he hit him left handed, and no control over it when the horse overreacted.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by mcm7780:
like Jeapordy, it’s always been popular but it became a lot more popular once Ken Jennings started winning soooo much more than most winners! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

After seeing the inspired win by Alfeet Alex today, my advice to Ken Jennings would be to jog five miles every day before the Tournament of Champions begins.

I am well aware that Scrappy T did not interfere with Giacomo. However, the horse and the jockey should be held accountable for his behavior. Whether you believe that the jockey could control what happened or not, that is the jockey’s job! This is not the first time the horse has done this, so apparently the connections need to be sent a message that the horse needs reschooling. This is why I believe the horse should have been disqualified.

Well said Hallie!

Congrats to Emily and the rest of the Scrappy T team for accomplishing what many other just dream of…of just haveing a horse good enought to run in one of the Triple Crown races!

Racing dumbASP here… can someone tell me how fast AA was going when that stumble occured?

There will still be a Triple Crown… it existed long before the Visa Bonus and will exist long after. There just won’t be a $5 million bonus for a horse that wins all three races. The prestige will still be there and no one can take that away.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Albion – Rememeber, some of us here were born after Secretariat won. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Um, I was born in 1983 - several years after Secretariat won the Triple Crown. All of my friends I was talking about were born after Secretariat, or right around then - and were in diapers when he DID win.

The old winners are big sports names in their own right, even among the public that isn’t into racing or horses - just like I’m familiar with some famous names from other sports that I don’t follow or watch. It’s ALWAYS been a big, big deal - Visa sponsorship or no.

I won the trifecta!! Been betting here and there for decades and never won so much. Put Scrappy in there because of this board, so ‘thank you’ to the Scrappy supporters! And congrats!

I nearly had a heart attack on that last turn. Wow, Alex really won my heart, what a horse. Looked to me that it wasn’t really the whip with Scrappy, but that he was looking at the infield and spooked/bolted. Well, anyway, what a race!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by mcm7780:
I was mistaken and thought that Visa had always sponsered the Triple Crown…guess that shows you what marketing can do! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Visa started the bonus of $5M first in 1996 and announced in March 2005 that this would be the last year of their bonus offer. (Visa of course did the offering via an insurance policy) During that time six horses won the Ky Derby and Preakness. Visa will remain in horse racing by being a major sponsor of the Kentucky Derby in 2006.

It was a brilliant marketing move for them which yielded great press and didn’t cost them much for the efforts. I hope some other financial firm can step up and offer the same incentive.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by mcm7780:
I have a picture of me on the statue of Secretariat at the Kentucky Horse Park and no one knew who the horse was even after I tried to explain! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh, unless you just did the climbing in late 2004 you must be talking about the original “Big Red” - Man O’War The large Hazeltine sculpted statue has been there since 1977 above his relocated grave.

Secretariat only received a bronze - as depicted with Ron Turcotte up - at the Horse Park in November 2004.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that safety was a major concern for the stewards. Precisely because a horse or a human, or both, could have been killed because of Scrappy T’s actions, I think a stronger message would have been appropriate. I am clearly in the minority. If this were a MSW and an inexperienced horse, I would not be so quick to judge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes, safety is the steward’s concern, but their discretion can only be excersized within the rules of the racetrack. Scrappy’s mess was not a break of any rules. It was not intentional on the jockey’s part to send the horse flying SIDEWAYS. Again, I maintain that if the stewards stepped in it would be ruling about the training of a horse’s readiness, not in their scope.

While I think Alex was the clear winner, run in or not, Scrappy did run a darn good race hiself. The people who work with him should be proud, he put in a great effort.

I was like whoa!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by The Fjord Jockey:
CJ= I am curious as to how someone can form so strong an opinion without actually knowing what they are talking about (as it’s clear that you do not). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Opinions are like assholes; everyone has one. It’s really no skin off my nose if you don’t care for mine, but you should be careful telling people that they don’t know what they’re talking about.

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by MyArgie:
since when is it the steward’s job to send messages about a horse’s experience or need of “reschooling”? Messages on drugs, and jockey behavior yes, but on a HORSE, no way… The trainer and owner will have plenty message knowing that in that event someone could have been killed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that safety was a major concern for the stewards. Precisely because a horse or a human, or both, could have been killed because of Scrappy T’s actions, I think a stronger message would have been appropriate. I am clearly in the minority. If this were a MSW and an inexperienced horse, I would not be so quick to judge.

Alex was making an amazing move around the turn and I agree, would definitely have blown by Scrappy – and even as it was, he still won going away, after basically being on his knees. No way was Scrappy winning this one, regardless.

LoriO – I the Triple Crown has been around for a long time…: ) Did it still get as much attention before Visa offered the prize? I mean, I know the races themselves have always been huge, but did the media pick it up more when the $$$ was offered? (Nice aside, my old TB was related to a bunch of horses that raced in these three races…some of them won 2 of the 3! Made me feel like I had a cool horse!)

I am at work. Who did win?

<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by mcm7780:
Did it still get as much attention before Visa offered the prize? I mean, I know the races themselves have always been huge, but did the media pick it up more when the $$$ was offered? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh lord, yes. There hasn’t been a Triple Crown winner since Visa started their sponsorship. The 70s were the heyday of the TC races, more winners in that decade than any other, if memory serves. I’m sure if Visa doesn’t renew the contract, someone else will step up to it. It’s incredible exposure for the company. Even so, I do appreciate that they have been willing to support racing as they have during their contract period. I don’t even mind (so much) that they have commercials every five minutes during the telecast. If anyone watched ESPN’s special before the race, they’d have heard that network’s regret that THEY weren’t showing the races. All that Visa money buying airtime…