Always get stuff in writing no matter who it is

[QUOTE=scstables2;8753454]
Time to create new laws…[/QUOTE]

So you believe that if you know of an animal belonging to somebody else that is not being managed the way you think it ought to be that you should be able to file a lawsuit?

IANAL, but what possible legal principle would this be based on?
I am under the impression that the basis for a civil suit is to compensate an indvidual for damages. If it is not your property, you have no standing.

3 Likes

I just reread your blog. I feel bad for you now. You are someone that needs love, and has a bit of emotional trauma. I hope you can let go soon and forgive yourself for what has happened.

1 Like

Oh dear god. What a mess. Do not imagine you were tricked, robbed, et al. You sold your horse. Period. Then you apparently did not have funds to meet the resale price.
I bet you were a nightmare with your hokus pokus auto immune munchausen by proxy with this poor mare.

It is past delusional that you think you are “teaching” anyone anything other than to avoid sellers like you like the plague.

No doubt when hubbies construction biz went under, everything was in the business name so you had to liquidate? See, my pets are family and that has entailed cobbling extra jobs together to keep them in the family until a better job came through after a company I worked for did a round of layoffs. I still have my horse. I pay for board, vet, etc. no one else.

You sold your horse because your husband could no longer afford her, or, I venture, the astronomical con job the doctors were pulling on you.

And yet somehow she managed to live outside of your care. Stunning.

I feel for the buyer, having their horse stalked by you and others. Forget civil case, you are marching down the criminal path.

Oy vey.

4 Likes

[QUOTE=vxf111;8753465]
Coupled with OP’s difficulty understanding what people say, apparently. This thread illustrates that she didn’t fully understand the agreement with the new buyer, what her holistic vet said, what the animal control officer said, or what many of the posts here say.[/QUOTE]

To be fair, she may have understood AC’s advice. I imagine “Get a lawyer and sue” may have been the easiest way of getting her to back off them.

OP, animal abuse/neglect are not private-lawsuit issues. They’re not things one private citizen sues another over.
This is when the government steps in, via its proxies, like AC. If AC had reason to believe abuse/neglect was occurring, the action was theirs to take.

Instead, you claim they told you that the animal was being abused in their opinion, but… you needed to privately sue its owner? In all honesty that pretty much translates to “Go fly a kite, lady, we have work to do.”

You sold your horse. The new owner said they’d follow your vet’s advice, but may have reconsidered once they discussed with their vet and decided yours was a kook (whatever the mare’s diagnosis supposedly is, a vet who’s just overall anti-vax is not gonna be seen as anything but that); there’s nothing wrong with that. An owner has the right to choose a vet whose opinion they trust.
Horse went up for sale, and you were offered dibs. You couldn’t afford the price, someone else did, end of story - even if you had a written contract with ROFR, it would’ve gone the same way. You did get ROFR! You couldn’t afford the horse; having the ROFR on paper wouldn’t have changed that.

6 Likes

[QUOTE=vxf111;8749181]
The internet is forever, and this kind of helps piece things together a bit…

http://ewarmbloods1.yuku.com/topic/2528/How-long-normally-does-it-take-to-sell-a-hanoverian-mare[/QUOTE]

So according to holistic vet, the mare can only be “nosode immunized.”

Nosodes.
Homeopathic vaccines:

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/homeopathic-vaccines/

This is even better. And it’s from a pro-nosode page!

Nosodes are specialized homeopathic remedies that are prepared by taking actual diseased matter from a sick animal such as diseased tissue or nasal discharge. The preparation of a nosode involves a lengthy process of succussion and dilution of the original material using traditional homeopathic protocols until virtually no molecules of the crude substance remain, rendering the nosode safe for use. This process, called potentization, inactivates the original disease substance and converts the material into a bioenergetic remedy which interacts with the body’s energy field. The final product is a potent remedy that is an energetic blueprint of the actual disease.

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/nosodes-can-they-replace-vaccines/

1 Like

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;8753489]
So you believe that if you know of an animal belonging to somebody else that is not being managed the way you think it ought to be that you should be able to file a lawsuit?

IANAL, but what possible legal principle would this be based on?
I am under the impression that the basis for a civil suit is to compensate an indvidual for damages. If it is not your property, you have no standing.[/QUOTE]

BUT on the plus side, if that got up (not that it ever would) I can just picture a disgruntled ex-owner suing someone for denying veterinary care, refusing to vaccinate and using homeopathic remedies.
The OP would not be so thrilled with the idea then.

1 Like

Op, you can put Rights of First Refusal; Which vets to use; etc into a Contract but chances are it wouldn’t stand up in court because the horse is no longer yours… You sold it, so the new owner now gets to over ride,if you will, those “old clauses” and set their own! Once you no longer own the property you no longer get to “dictate” how it’s taken care of as “it’s no longer yours”! Seriously, stop driving by and driving yourself crazy. All this will get you is a restraining order or worse.

1 Like

[QUOTE=Coanteen;8753705]
To be fair, she may have understood AC’s advice. I imagine “Get a lawyer and sue” may have been the easiest way of getting her to back off them.

OP, animal abuse/neglect are not private-lawsuit issues. They’re not things one private citizen sues another over.
This is when the government steps in, via its proxies, like AC. If AC had reason to believe abuse/neglect was occurring, the action was theirs to take.

Instead, you claim they told you that the animal was being abused in their opinion, but… you needed to privately sue its owner? In all honesty that pretty much translates to “Go fly a kite, lady, we have work to do.”

You sold your horse. The new owner said they’d follow your vet’s advice, but may have reconsidered once they discussed with their vet and decided yours was a kook (whatever the mare’s diagnosis supposedly is, a vet who’s just overall anti-vax is not gonna be seen as anything but that); there’s nothing wrong with that. An owner has the right to choose a vet whose opinion they trust.
Horse went up for sale, and you were offered dibs. You couldn’t afford the price, someone else did, end of story - even if you had a written contract with ROFR, it would’ve gone the same way. You did get ROFR! You couldn’t afford the horse; having the ROFR on paper wouldn’t have changed that.[/QUOTE]

Well said.

Once sold, the new owners were perfectly within their rights to obtain a 2nd veterinary opinion and follow it as they saw fit. The end.

When you sell your horse you no longer have full control of it, no matter what type of contract you may use. Another option could have been a lease, in which you would still retain ownership, control, (and responsibility for expenses.) But it’s water under the bridge now.

Let it go.

3 Likes

This bears repeating over and over

I’m confused as to how you think a written contract would have helped you seeing as you were offered the mare back; you could not afford the purchase price.

5 Likes

[QUOTE=scstables2;8753453]

I do not understand why humans always fill in the blanks with assumptions. It just causes problems…[/QUOTE]

The blanks filled in during the discussion in this thread were filled in from reading things you, the original poster, posted other places. No one just made up stuff. They read your writings.

I do hope you are able to move on and let this mare enjoy her new life with her new owner.

6 Likes

A written agreement would have specified the money to be returned in the situation if the horse did not work out for her. So thus, since there was not one, room for her to choose any buyer by jacking up the price so high that I could not afford the price… people do these things you know :frowning:

[QUOTE=trubandloki;8753809]
The blanks filled in during the discussion in this thread were filled in from reading things you, the original poster, posted other places. No one just made up stuff. They read your writings.

I do hope you are able to move on and let this mare enjoy her new life with her new owner.[/QUOTE]

I am not speaking of the other threads. There were assumptions made that I have not spoke of in other threads else where.

[QUOTE=S1969;8753726]
Well said.

Once sold, the new owners were perfectly within their rights to obtain a 2nd veterinary opinion and follow it as they saw fit. The end.

When you sell your horse you no longer have full control of it, no matter what type of contract you may use. Another option could have been a lease, in which you would still retain ownership, control, (and responsibility for expenses.) But it’s water under the bridge now.

Let it go.[/QUOTE]

My grief is not water under the bridge. And neither are people’s cold hearted reactions.

Everything is energy. And what gets put out bad, will come back…

LOL just wait and see what karma brings to the manipulators and liars…

When a bird is alive, it eats ants.
When the bird is dead, ants eats the bird.
Time and circumstances can change at any time.
Dont devalue or hurt anyone in life.
You may be powerful today. But remember.
Time is more powerful than you!
One tree makes a million match sticks…
Only one match stick needed to burn a million trees…

[QUOTE=eclipse;8753723]
Op, you can put Rights of First Refusal; Which vets to use; etc into a Contract but chances are it wouldn’t stand up in court because the horse is no longer yours… You sold it, so the new owner now gets to over ride,if you will, those “old clauses” and set their own! Once you no longer own the property you no longer get to “dictate” how it’s taken care of as “it’s no longer yours”! Seriously, stop driving by and driving yourself crazy. All this will get you is a restraining order or worse.[/QUOTE]

I am not the one that is “driving by” Do you understand I know the animal control officer??? Again, one misunderstood what I wrote. There are friends of mine who know I have been TOOK, they are animal lovers and they understand what is going on with this MARE. Most of you have NO idea of what is going on here. Stop pretending to be psychic…

[QUOTE=scstables2;8754228]
My grief is not water under the bridge. And neither are people’s cold hearted reactions.

Everything is energy. And what gets put out bad, will come back…

LOL just wait and see what karma brings to the manipulators and liars…

When a bird is alive, it eats ants.
When the bird is dead, ants eats the bird.
Time and circumstances can change at any time.
Dont devalue or hurt anyone in life.
You may be powerful today. But remember.
Time is more powerful than you!
One tree makes a million match sticks…
Only one match stick needed to burn a million trees…[/QUOTE]

did you want this thread to be some sort of therapy?

Also, regarding “jacking up the price”- its typical that you pay what the new owners want, not what they paid to buy the horse from YOU. Sour grapes because you got left out, seems to me?

[QUOTE=eclipse;8753723]
Op, you can put Rights of First Refusal; Which vets to use; etc into a Contract but chances are it wouldn’t stand up in court because the horse is no longer yours… You sold it, so the new owner now gets to over ride,if you will, those “old clauses” and set their own! Once you no longer own the property you no longer get to “dictate” how it’s taken care of as “it’s no longer yours”! Seriously, stop driving by and driving yourself crazy. All this will get you is a restraining order or worse.[/QUOTE]

I am not the one that is “driving by” Do you understand I know the animal control officer??? Again, one misunderstood what I wrote. There are friends of mine who know I have been TOOK, they are animal lovers and they understand what is going on with this MARE.

Most of you have NO idea of what is going on here. Stop pretending to be psychic…

[QUOTE=scstables2;8754228]
My grief is not water under the bridge. And neither are people’s cold hearted reactions.

Everything is energy. And what gets put out bad, will come back…

LOL just wait and see what karma brings to the manipulators and liars…

When a bird is alive, it eats ants.
When the bird is dead, ants eats the bird.
Time and circumstances can change at any time.
Dont devalue or hurt anyone in life.
You may be powerful today. But remember.
Time is more powerful than you!
One tree makes a million match sticks…
Only one match stick needed to burn a million trees…[/QUOTE]

OP: You sold a horse legally to people who didn’t happen to share your belief-system “medicine.” The horse has gone on to owners who are better equipped than you were to take proper care of her. As far as the horse is concerned, an upgrade.

The only “problem” here is your mental attachment to events in the past, which given the amount of mental energy you’ve devoted to this thread, is eating away at your life. End it. Move on, to something NOW and positive which IS under your control. Since you’re into karma and all that jazz, the Buddha said that life happens, but “suffering” is a choice we make. Quit suffering for something that actually had a POSITIVE outcome and move on with your life!

2 Likes

[QUOTE=scstables2;8754219]
A written agreement would have specified the money to be returned in the situation if the horse did not work out for her. So thus, since there was not one, room for her to choose any buyer by jacking up the price so high that I could not afford the price… people do these things you know :([/QUOTE]

How much did this buyer pay you for your horse- you have not yet answered that question- 5 K is not a huge amount.

4 Likes

FROR doesn’t = buy back horse for what you sold it for.

It just means they offer the horse for what they think it is worth. You said earlier that you didn’t sell her for 5k. That fact isn’t important.

The only lesson learned here is … don’t sell if you want to make decisions in the horse’s care. The moment you sold her… is the moment that you gave up control no matter what really happened.

Heart horse (or horse of a lifetime/soul mate/…/…) = don’t sell

7 Likes

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8754293]
OP: You sold a horse legally to people who didn’t happen to share your belief-system “medicine.” The horse has gone on to owners who are better equipped than you were to take proper care of her. As far as the horse is concerned, an upgrade.

The only “problem” here is your mental attachment to events in the past, which given the amount of mental energy you’ve devoted to this thread, is eating away at your life. End it. Move on, to something NOW and positive which IS under your control. Since you’re into karma and all that jazz, the Buddha said that life happens, but “suffering” is a choice we make. Quit suffering for something that actually had a POSITIVE outcome and move on with your life![/QUOTE]

Ummm. How do you know for sure this is a positive outcome? No one knows this for sure…

The back stabbing that has been done to me will have a price to pay as in karma. The best thing is one does not need to do anything as it happens all on it’s own.