Who else wanted to scream when she said it “basically” is a volunteer position but gets paid $750 a day. Omg I have to work 10 hours of time and a half to get close to that, and I feel lucky to make that. Talk about out of touch
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I’m an outsider, so you are welcome to tell me to mind my own business, but some things stick out when reading COTH
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The cost of showing is ludicrous. It isn’t the cost of an individual class entry but all the additional ones: admin fee, drug testing fee, etc etc. It is a bit like a budget airline charging you to print your own ticket (on your own printer) and then telling you, at the airport, that you can’t have any baggage and charging you for taking your bag on board. Why can’t costs be fully transparent and up front? Then maybe shows could compete on cost.
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Related point: everyone wants the amateur riders money. Why do you have to pay so many membership fees? Isn’t USJA part of USEF? Amateurs are at the bottom of the heap, the prey species on which the professionals feed. This doesn’t strike me as a sound business model.
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There doesn’t seem to be much transparency in the industry. Every judge writes their own squiggle and apparently no one challenges it, committee discussions occur behind closed doors, horses sell with several people taking their cut and no one tells the amateur owner about the chain of rip off tactics, no one wishes to offend anyone. My main love is eventing: the USEA doesn’t publish easily accessible safety data in what is acknowledged to be a high risk sport. Wierd. Sometimes change requires firm, decisive and even unpopular actions but it can’t happen if no one knows what is happening. Ah, of course, that is why…
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From this side of the ocean, I am amazed at the size of purses and awards and goody bags that are expected by participants at American shows. A prize of £1,000 is big money in the UK. Such prizes cost but no one wishes the shows to economize. And no one wants to compete at a show that has less than stellar facilities - at small show prices. On the other hand, you seem to have a lot of shows with less than stellar facilities - at major show prices, judging by the complaints. Lack of consistency is an issue.
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Given the size of the USA, I do find the mileage rule a puzzle. It seems anti-competitive. Surely as diverse a range of show type, size and location as possible would be beneficial? Particularly if encouraging amateur participation is an aim.
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I have held many hats over the years from showing as a junior, competing in college and now as more of an owner than a rider but I hope to be back in the ammy show rings soon. To be fair some of these things may be in place already but I am just out of the loop.
- The mileage rule needs to go. I think most people seem to agree with that. I don’t think that shows should be grandfathered in to their dates every year or get first pick. There needs to be a minimum requirement for these show facilities. If they are not up to pass every year they forfeit their dates.
- Give me more B and C shows. If I’m riding as an Adult Amateur I don’t need AA Premier shows to just get zone points. This goes back to the mileage rule though since even these cannot run on the same weekend as an AA.
- The membership needs to be in charge of who is sitting on the boards. I would love to have an opinion on who is leading USEF/USHJA. People should be limited to how many committees they sit on and a specific percentage needs to be amateurs. The amount of money we are paying these people to run this organization is ridiculous. If they simply took an even small pay cut imagine the things they could invest in with the extra money from membership fees.
- Fees need to be condensed and made more affordable. I spend the majority of my entry fees on stalls and fees instead of my actual class entry. I understand the need for some of these shows to charge more in order for them to have prize money and a specific rating but this goes back to #2, give me smaller shows where I can still earn points but I don’t have to pay an arm and a leg if I’m not interested in the prize money.
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Those are for travel days only. I don’t know how much she travels on USHJA business or what the annual total ends up being.
I know it’s popular to expect someone leading an organization like this to volunteer or work for peanuts, but that’s how you end up with the only people able to serve as independently wealthy or people who use the role to seek alternate means of funding and enrichment from it.
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I think absence makes the heart grow fonder and it’s easy to forget how much more insular it was then.
Also, no one considered the fees reasonable then either. 
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According to the organization’s 990 from the year ending 11/30/2019, Mary received $69,750 in reportable compensation from the organization. Not as much as those who receive compensation from USEF, but nothing to sneeze at either for a “volunteer” position, which is in addition to her income from her training business of course.
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That is pretty good pay for a volunteer job.
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A show manager chimes in on the mileage rule. He speaks in favor of it, which may not be obvious from the title.
Thought I’d add it here since the mileage rule has come up repeatedly on this thread. Not sure if it merits its own thread in addition.
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It’s not much compared to Bill Moroney’s half million he gets every year to aggravate his membership, but it’s way more than I ever got for volunteering.
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The introduction by AHSA of the drug rules and drug testing was pretty “earth shattering” at the time. And it took MANY years to get it in place.
Also the lifetime suspensions for the insurance killings were pretty “earth shattering”, as well as the (1975?) introduction of the first version “mileage rule” (which was explicitly stated as a way to “keep the upstart shows out”).
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Discussion Points for An Amateur Bill of Rights.
This is Penelope, I have been reading all your posts and I put this together as a start for the final version of The Bill of Rights that we can write together!
The amateurs are the most wonderful group of people in equestrian sports. I have been humbled by the amazing response to my contributed article in The Chronicle of The Horse. As a first step toward my envisioned amateur “Bill of Rights,” I have catalogued the most posted discussion points and suggestions via social media platforms. As this is a work in progress, I encourage USHJA / USEF members to post your comments, suggestions, and topics / issues you deem to have been omitted. As a life long vested amateur competitor and governance participant, appreciation to all for your support towards this initiative.
The Cost of Shows
• Showing has become too expensive for most amateur competitors. • There are endless fees and little to no opportunities to win back prize money to cover 75% of your entries. • Amateurs would like more payback classes and prize money for modified adults.
• Run all amateur classes on the weekend.
• Add age splits in the jumpers, eliminate jumper nomination fee unless class pays back 75% of fee plus entries through 8th place.
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Eliminate the Mileage Rule
• America was built on a free enterprise and capitalistic system. The best show should be able to succeed without protectionism.
• More promotion of B,C and local shows with different price points from A shows. -
Equal (50%) amateur representation on USHJA BOD and important committees at USHJA.
• Amateurs selected/voted to these groups should represent the diverse socio and economic exhibitor population/constituencies.
• Conduct more USHJA Town Hall meetings on line for members to participate. -
Review, and potentially rewrite amateur rules.
•Rules need to be re-written in order to address current and transient needs of a diverse group of exhibitors. For instance, examine teaching, competition managers, judging, course designing, working student status, longeing (of horses other than your own), and social influencers.
• Eliminate commercial show managers and organizers from holding an Amateur card. -
Transparency.
• USHJA needs more transparency in disseminating information to its membership. For example, better communicating the change from splitting amateur-owner hunter classes from needing 3 to 6 exhibitors. -
Develop innovation.
• Create ways to accept actionable feedback to shape the organization. -
Promote honesty and transparency.
• We need more honesty in professional relationships and bills of sale.
• Create programs that create professionalism and integrity in all business dealings. -
Due Diligence.
• Deploy USHJA compliance officers to visit shows and check for unsafe conditions, rule enforcement and other violations.
• There should be strict inspection standards for footing, warm up rings and longeing areas. -
Respect for the largest segment of USHJA membership (47%)
• Amateur exhibitors should be treated with respect at whatever level they are showing in hunters or jumpers.
• Less “prestigious” divisions should not always be in smaller or less desirable rings. -
Create a system of standardized scoring for judging.
• Make score sheets available to exhibitors as judges’ feedback would educate and make showing an
investment. -
- List item
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Exactly! If this happened I might reconsider my lapsing membership and renew.
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Creation and enforcement of the D&M rules are now a USEF thing. What does the USHJA have to do with that? And by Mary’s post their role in the ongoing mileage rule is to make a recommendation to USEF whether or not to grant an exemption. And then the USEF has to consider the question for itself. Why do we need the USHJA again?
Yes it’s sad that the fees we once complained about now look like peanuts relatively.
Nothing.
I was responding DIRECTLY to a comment about the “old AHSA”. Not about either USHJA or USEF
Right. It was my comment based on Mary Babick saying that we should be so thankful to have the USHJA because times were rough under the AHSA and so the young generation should be reminded by old timers about how awful things were.
I don’t think that creating D&M rules and welfare rules and then actually enforcing them (yes, I remember it was a big scandal on the topic of insurance killing) under the AHSA is the kind of thing we are complaining about today with USEF/USHJA in the context of this thread and Mary Babick’s response to Penelope. Instead, these programs are more robust now.
I think the way to fix the amateur rule honestly is to fix what constitutes a professional. We need to properly certify trainers, I think through several levels.
How many “professionals” (especially the young ones) do not know how to tell an ambitious client that she is not ready to move up? How many professionals have no training in proper horsemanship and it shows in how they manage (drug) horses at the shows. How many professionals don’t know how to set prices and end up skimming or stealing as a result? How many professionals do you know who have clients competing at levels beyond what they themselves have done? Answer: way too many. And the result is depressing participation in the sport.
I honestly think that if we certified professionals and gave them training not just in terms of riding, but also horse management and welfare, basic veterinary and shoeing, client and business management, we would solve a lot of the problems you see at shows and the industry overall.
Two months ago I was at a show and a client had a disastrous round in the 1.20m with the horse sticking off the ground, obviously anxious. The trainer only remarked that he looked a little dull and they would give him some Adequann and Legend that night. AYKM???
Tied to that, I think we should require substantial apprenticeships with master trainers for young professionals. These 23 year olds with their own beautiful setup at the show worry me.
As an amateur, I want the outside body to certify that a prospective trainer has met a minimum of qualifications. I shouldn’t have to go on a message board to figure that out. In countries that have these minimum qualifications for professionals, you see a much more consistent standard of care and training. And that could actually lower costs, I guarantee we would have fewer really bad falls if people were in the right division on the right horse.
Giving tiers would allow young professionals something to work towards and align them with a client base that makes sense for their level of skill.
And finally, and I know this will not be popular, I think all riders (amateurs and juniors alike) should have to pass some kind of test before moving up a level. We have technology, you should be able to submit a short video of yourself jumping the 1.20m at home before you go do it in a pressure filled competition arena. Other countries do this, I don’t see why we couldn’t.
I’m probably over sensitive to this, but honestly, when you see some people moving up the 1.10m and the 1.20m, it can be really scary. Same with the 3’3 in the hunters. Eliminating some of that would also cut down on insurance costs in the long run bc damn those can be some bad falls.
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I guess I am weird because this particular fact does not bother me at all. There are some good trainers who do not compete much for various reasons.
Some people really can teach and train riders well having not competed at that level.
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I may be in the minority, but I’m very leery of having a top or primary thrust be for more money in amateur classes, because I’m pretty sure they’ll achieve that goal by raising class fees and adding more nominating fees.
I’ll actually avoid shows with big prizes for my level because it almost always means higher class fees, office fees and often a nominating fee. I’m realistic about my and my horse’s capabilities. We can certainly place well, but we’re not going out there and winning most of our classes. I show to give myself goals to work towards, for the change of pace and for fun. If higher prize money means I now have to pay $200 or more to enter the classic plus my division fee, I’m just going to skip the classic. I can’t justify paying that much for a single class on the chance I might win some of the fee back.
Give me more B and C shows where I can go for a day or two to show. I don’t need VIP areas, jumbotrons or divisions stretched over three or more days. I just need safe facilities with decent footing and courses.
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I am also not a fan of more prize money for classes. In my experience they’re a reverse Robin Hood - that is, they take money and resources in the form of higher entry fees from the beginners, entry level, and underhorsed, and give it to the people with more experience and more resources and better horses. The people who are winning are rarely people who will decide whether to have lunch or not based on their prize check.
I love a good venue with good accommodations, footing, etc. Forcing the big shows to make my classes even more expensive by adding prize money only pushes those events further from my reach.
Instead I’d look at focusing on how to make my experience fun, educational, and worthwhile, even if, perhaps ESPECIALLY if, I’m in the bottom half of my class. Someone has to be at the bottom and we want those people to be the best they can be and have fun just like the winners.
One thing I really like about dressage is that I always come home with a score sheet to let me know if I was better or worse than last time out, regardless of who else came to show, and even my last place score, if it was a good score, can be used towards benchmark awards like a rider Bronze Medal. There’s a place for me to meet competitive goals and get usable feedback even if I’m not the winner.
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I absolutely love this idea, and saw someone mention that Germany has a similar type system already in place. I agree that there are many potential benefits not just for the trainers, but also the clients, and even the sport as falls and accidents reduce due to better education all around and better matches between horses and riders (as you mentioned). I like your idea of “testing” up the levels. I know eventing has a system somewhat like that in place. From my understanding you have to complete so many events safely at one level before moving up to the next?
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