I will vote Gwendolyn Gregorio HANDS DOWN for dilute colored Warmbloods. I know many think that we should be added with all the other WB’s but it has taken careful breeding to get to where we are now. Most breeders (Hilltop/ISF…) don’t have a dilute in their herd.
Popcorn? Yes, I had to put it out there
I will say in general:
Iron Spring
Hilltop
Judy Yancy
Flax Lion Stud
I am sure there are more but those are off the top of my head
DY - If you remove “most” from the article’s title you’ll probably be on firmer ground. Looks like you might want to delete “10” also as you’re over that number already!
Glenwood made a HUGE impact on sporthorse/WB breeding in this country back when no one knew what a WB was.
If there was a sporthorse hall of fame, Judy Ehlers would be in it.
Yep, Judy & Volker/Glenwood are on my list.
I don’t think that your list should include the one hit wonders.
If you are referring to Alla Czar and Popeye K - it is my understanding that those stallions are/were not only very successful in the show ring, but they are/were incredibly popular with breeders and produced a LOT of foals for the hunter ring - and also helped fuel the current rage for hunters with chrome. So they probably significantly impacted hunter breeding in that regard - yes?
I’d look at the IJF for breeders with performance jumpers.
Bannockburn Farms is pretty much responsible for the BWP in NA, and they have supported the IJF from the getgo.
You are right, Bannockburn probably should be on the list.
like the list…but would add Diana Dodge at Nokomis Farm too. Produced many nice hunters from her program but has also given back so much to the sport as well…
I actually had her on an initial list - she was another one that got accidentally dropped when I did the cut and paste. But could you elaborate on how she has given back to the sport? You can PM me if you wish.
I will vote Gwendolyn Gregorio HANDS DOWN
Love the palominos, but Gwen is not in NA, and I am not sure I could agree that her dilute breeding program has significantly impacted the sport horse industry here.
Where is Suzanne Quarles of Some Day Soon Farm on this list?..Look at Liz Hall of Silverwood Farm who influenced the industry by changing the “color” of sporthorses in the US.
You are probably right about Suzanne Quarles. And yes, I meant to put Liz on the list, too. She certainly influenced WB breeding with her pinto stallions - they have been wildly popular with breeders through the years.
It is tough because many of us will look to the discipline and breed of our choice, but to make this “fair” you need to get facts to back up your choices, not those suggested on this board.
Yes, it is turning out to be a huge undertaking and there is no way to please everyone. I will have to work with my editor to see if we can take a different approach. We may have to go back and break it down by discipline - i.e., separate lists per discipline, but there are some folks who have influenced multiple disciplines through the years, so that path could be pretty difficult, too.
Regarding “facts to back up my choices” - that is easier said than done since our NGB’s have done such a poor job of keeping stats through the years. :mad:
[QUOTE=LavenderFarm;5059624]
DY - If you remove “most” from the article’s title you’ll probably be on firmer ground. Looks like you might want to delete “10” also as you’re over that number already![/QUOTE]
We will probably end up with something like those who have PROFOUNDLY INFLUENCED sport horse breeding in the U.S.
And yes, it is going to be quite impossible to whittle it down to just 10. :eek:
I think I would add Charlot Farms if you are going to include Canadian breeders. 
Sorry but ‘sired a lot of sport horse foals’ really should not be a consideration.
But it’s your list so do as you please but I’m sure I’ll be entertained by the results. Somehow, I thought performance results should be a criteria.
In a later post you mention Alla Czar and Popeye K. Alla Czar has a proven record of siring performers. At this point Popeye K’s produce are mostly in the feed and lead division although there are a few showing in the performance divisions. With his breeding I have no doubt that he will eventually become a successful sire of sport horses but he isn’t there yet.
The chrome thing has been around for a long time. The two horses you mentioned did not start the craze.
I’m sorry but if you are clueless about Good Twist, Gem Twist and other descendants of the Bonne Nuit line you need to get someone else to do the jumper list.
Please take a look at the American breeders on the jumper list. People like Tatra and Newsprint have been producing winning young jumpers probably since the inception of the program.
Just because you don’t know a breeder or they don’t post on this forum it’s certainly possible that they produce superior results. Broaden your horizens.
[QUOTE=PineTreeFarm;5059657]
Sorry but ‘sired a lot of sport horse foals’ really should not be a consideration.
But it’s your list so do as you please but I’m sure I’ll be entertained by the results. Somehow, I thought performance results should be a criteria.
In a later post you mention Alla Czar and Popeye K. Alla Czar has a proven record of siring performers. At this point Popeye K’s produce are mostly in the feed and lead division although there are a few showing in the performance divisions. With his breeding I have no doubt that he will eventually become a successful sire of sport horses but he isn’t there yet.
The chrome thing has been around for a long time. The two horses you mentioned did not start the craze.
I’m sorry but if you are clueless about Good Twist, Gem Twist and other descendants of the Bonne Nuit line you need to get someone else to do the jumper list.
Please take a look at the American breeders on the jumper list. People like Tatra and Newsprint have been producing winning young jumpers probably since the inception of the program.
Just because you don’t know a breeder or they don’t post on this forum it’s certainly possible that they produce superior results. Broaden your horizens.[/QUOTE]
One thing is for sure - we can certainly depend on you to be catty and snotty, can’t we?
Well, tough. It’s my sandbox, so if you can’t be nice and helpful , then just stay out.
And producing winning young jumpers since the beginning of time isn’t enough - has their program PROFOUNDLY IMPACTED OR INFLUENCED the sport horse breeding industry in the U.S.?
Since when were hunters considered sport horses??? I always thought the sport horses were part of the Olympic disciplines.
and other descendants of the Bonne Nuit line
Well, in that case, DY could just list Liz Whitney Tippett and all bases would be covered. :lol:
Or back in the dark ages, Eleanor Sears.
You are also going to have to take thoroughbreds into account.
Pine Tree, you make some good suggestion for the list but why so snarky all the time? Your good ideas get lost in delivery when you do that.
I suppose I just look at it and want for anyone that makes the list, for you to be able to say they’ve done this to help breeders…pay it forward, if you will. Separate the wheat from the chafe <smile>. The ones that rise above and not only produce top prospects, but also help educate others on how to do the same, how to present, how to select, how to succeed!
I tend to agree with Kathy. And with that in mind, I’ll ditto Patchwork’s suggestion of Suzanne Quarles, Some Day Soon Farm. When I first started breeding 15 years ago she graciously put up with my myriad of newbie questions. I am sure that she has influenced many over many years, with a generosity second to none. I am also sure that there are many, many others like her, representing other breeds and disciplines. Those that very quickly come to mind are Barb Schmidt, owner of Fabuleux, Judy Yancey who not only sells semen but tries to educate, Hilltop, Iron Springs, Hassler Dressage for all the obvious reasons. I hesitate to even write this, as I know I am missing so many. To me the best of the sport horse breeding industry is its channel of cooperation, sharing of knowledge and giving of support, breeder to breeder all across the country.
Ahhh…but there in lies the rub. They are two STALLIONS that have had a huge impact. But I thought you were looking for breeders? <evil grin>. Devil’s Advocate here. But, I think that “is” one of the pitfalls of what you’re attempting to do.
You are probably right about Suzanne Quarles. And yes, I meant to put Liz on the list, too. She certainly influenced WB breeding with her pinto stallions - they have been wildly popular with breeders through the years.
Agree on both of those names. They aren’t just about breeding but on changing and moving things “forward” (depending on your definition of "forward :o)
Yes, it is turning out to be a huge undertaking and there is no way to please everyone. I will have to work with my editor to see if we can take a different approach. We may have to go back and break it down by discipline - i.e., separate lists per discipline, but there are some folks who have influenced multiple disciplines through the years, so that path could be pretty difficult, too.
I’m not sure if you need to break it down by discipline, necessarily. I think if you look at those breeders that “have” made a huge impact, they’re recognized by all disciplines. Ask! Go to the other BB’s and ask who do you think of when asked for a top breeder in this country and HOW they have helped the industry as a whole? Glenwood Farms/Judy and Volker Ehlers are easy! They not only brought in some top horses, but they also attempted repeatedly to hold sporthorse auctions. Liz Hall had a tough row to hoe educating people that a good horse is any color and dealing with the prejudices that not only riders and breeders had about colors, but registries, as well. Hilltop has ALWAYS been at the forefront of trying to educate as well as producing top horses. The same with the Hasslers.
Regarding “facts to back up my choices” - that is easier said than done since our NGB’s have done such a poor job of keeping stats through the years. :mad:
Yeah…but that’s not necessarily the end all be all simply because of the dynamics of our riding population. Many horses that have top potential will end up in amateur hands that have no intention of ever showing up the levels. Is it because the horses weren’t top quality? Nope. Heck even getting some breeders to present foals for registration can be a struggle - less so now than it was 10 years ago, but still an issue. And you also have the problem of riders changing names and not bothering with listing the parentage of many horses, so there are certainly horses out there competing that their breeders don’t get any credit for. Ask me how I know that <rolling eyes>.
And many of the horses that end up at the top, at least until relatively recently may have been owned by top farms, but were they bred by them? And how have those horses helped the industry of sporthorse breeding as a whole? I guess I’m more looking for the altruistic nature of things and less on those with bank accounts to support beautiful ads <smile>. Some of the smaller breeders have done HUGE amounts for the industry, as well.
just an idea…
Contact the US registeries and ask for their input. They have the statistics and can provide objective input.
KWPN-NA
ISR/Oldenburg
Oldenburg Horse Breeders Society
SWANA
and more.
Meanwhile, I vote for Tish Quirk, DG Bar, Hilltop, and Hassler Dressage
By Dr Peter Birdsall
article from the book The Leading Competition Sires of Great Britain and Ireland 1996-1997
Published by Otterswick Marketing.
The Performance Horse Registry (PHR) has announced the high score winners for the 1995 show season in jumping, combined training, dressage and hunter competitions.
This is the first year the recently organised Performance Horse Registry has made the awards. To be eligible for the awards program the horses must be at least one-half Thoroughbred and must be recorded in the Registry. Awards were given at both national and regional levels of competition.An overview of the horses receiving awards has provided some interesting date. It is the goal of the PHR, an organisation operated under the auspices of The Jocky Club, to make bloodline and performance information available to the performance horse industry, much like the information that is available on a large scale to those involved in Thoroughbred racing.
To examine the data derived from the 1995 show season, the award-winning horses were grouped by each of the four disciplines in which they competed. Their pedigrees were then evaluated to find which stallion lines were most prominent.The Thoroughbred stallion Nasrullah was found to be the most common ancestor in all the horses receiving awards. In fact, Nasrullah was the most common ancestor in pedigrees of horses competing in each of the four disciplines. The leading sire lines for each discipline are listed below in their order of frequency.
Hunters:
Nasrullah,
Man o’ War,
Princequillo,
Native Dancer.
Jumpers:
Nasrullah,
Precipitation,
Princequillo,
Man o’ War.
Dressage:
Nasrullah,
Native Dancer,
Princequillo,
Man o’ WarEventing:
Nasrullah,
Man o’ War,
Princequillo.
When all four disciplines are grouped together, the frequency of occurrence of the leading sire lines is as follows: Nasrullah, Man o’ War, Princequillo, Native Dancer.
The order and distribution of these sire lines is probably not surprising for anyone familiar with sport horse bloodlines. In fact, the distribution is similar to that which was shown in the publication “The Bloodlines of Hunters and Jumpers in North America”. This publication was based on the bloodlines of AHSA champion hunters and jumpers over more than a decade and it is notable that the distribution of the sire lines in the pedigrees of leading sport horses is almost identical even today.
Although not present in high numbers of occurrences, a number of sires well known in sport horse pedigrees were found in the pedigrees of these award-winning sport horses. These lines include the stallions Bonne Nuit, Mystic II and Independence. Bonne Nuit’s current descendants include the wonderful American-bred jumper Gem Twist. Secretariat, whose pedigree combines the Nasrullah and Princequillo bloodlines, was also found in a number of the pedigrees of the winners.
The demographics of the horses receiving awards from the Performance Horse Registry are of interest. As one would expect, a large number of the Thoroughbreds competing in sport horse disciplines were available for the show ring because of a mediocre or poor performance record on the race track. Many trained and were raced lightly, usually for one year, with very minimal winnings. Many of these horses were well enough bred to be full or half siblings to major stakes winners or stakes placed horses.
One hunter sold for $220,000 as a weanling, again for $215,000 as a yearling, but after a lack-lustre racing career, finally found his niche in the show ring.
A number of the horses successful in sport horse competition were not from high priced Thoroughbred stock. Siblings of a number of the successful show horses were sold at Thoroughbred auctions as yearlings for prices from $1,500 to $3,000. Other award winners were definitely bred for the show ring. They exhibit popular Thoroughbred show families on both sides of their pedigrees and a number of their sisters and brothers were, or still are, competing in sport horse events.
Two show horses receiving awards were sired by the Thoroughbred stallion Texas Fuel whose ancestral background includes many proven jumping lines including, Nasrullah, Mahmoud, and Roman. These PHR award winners were Timeless, who was 4th in the AHSA Green Conformation Hunter division for 1996 and the hunter Texas Tea. Texas Fuel is also the sire of the International Hunter Futurity, multiple winner Ace in the Hole as well as the IHF winners Deep Rock and Just in Texas.
Another interesting observation was that three of the hunters who received 1995 PHR awards were out of daughters of the Thoroughbred stallion Y-Busher. This stallion, from the two jumping lines Man o’ War and Bimelech, only sired 48 foals in his career.
In half-bred pedigrees, the most successful cross from the data available was that of warmblood stallions crossed with Thoroughbred mares. Sport horse stallions such as Abdullah, Banjo and Torrero, all from well established warmblood lines, were successful in siring award winners. It is not to imply from this data that the warmblood stallions crossed on Thoroughbred mares is the most successful cross for producing sport horses. Certainly Thoroughbred stallions bred to warmblood mares has been proven undoubtedly to be equally successful.
The year 1983 produced more PHR award winners of 1995, than any other foaling year. These show horses were 12 years old in 1995.
Many of the award winners for 1995 were from dams that were foaled in the 1960’s and the early to mid 1970’s. In some cases it may seem that the sire lines we are highlighting are from an earlier era, but when we consider the age of these dams, the sire line contribution can be quite current. This is unlike the racing industry where sires and dams may be proven at a younger age and are offspring of more current bloodlines. For a sport horse to reach the higher levels of competition, it will take many more years than the racing Thoroughbred who may be proven on the race track in his second or third year of life.
In the Regular Conformation Hunter the AHSA champion Idle Hour received PHR awards as did Viscount, the AHSA Reserve Champion Amateur-Owner Hunter 18 through 35 year old.
Fine Tuned, winner of the Automation Perpetual Trophy in the 1995 AHSA awards for Amateur-Owner Hunter over 35 years old was also an award winner. Fine Tuned was out of a daughter of Y-Busher, the stallion previously mentioned as the broodmare sire of three award winners for 1995. High Profile, the 3rd place horse in this AHSA division was also an award winner.The most prominent combined training horse was Bruce Davidson’s Hey Day, a Gold Medal winner at the Pan American Games. Hey Day is a son of the sport horse sire Babamist. Babamist is by Mystic II a French bred stallion who descends from Man o’ War through Relic. Relic is a stallion who appears in sport horse pedigrees in many countries throughout the world. Mystic II was an outstanding sire of steeplechasers in North America. His get include Soothsayer, Champion Steeplechaser of 1972, Life’s Illusion, Champion Steeplechase Horse of 1975 and China Run, a stakes winning steeplechaser. All three of these offspring set course records on the track. Mystic II also sired the outstanding jumper Springer formerly ridden in the 1970’s by Barney Ward and Ian Millar.
National jumpers receiving PHR awards for 1995 included the French-bred Rhum IV ridden to the 4th place standing in the AHSA Open Jumper division by Michael Matz and the jumper Paul Harvey who placed third in the year end standings for the AHSA Amateur Open Jumper Division.
In this, the first year of Performance Horse Registry awards, some limited information about performances and pedigrees of the horses competing can be gathered. As more horses are entered into the Registry and the Performance Horse Registry programs are expanded, much more detailed and useful data will be available to breeders, trainers, owners and riders of sport horses in North America. Presently, this type of important information has not been retrievable in an accurate, unbiased form. This significant material is necessary for the successful breeding and selection of sport horses.
Bruce Davidson and Mary Hazzard have probably bred more internationally successful horses than everyone else here combined…
What about Warioto Farm in Tennessee that stood a number of stallions and produced alot of hunters for many years? I know the chestnut Thoroughbred stallion that showed and bred for years stood there – mind is blank (how unusual, LOL!). What about Hamilton Farm – they were certainly influential in their heyday?
Good Luck!
PennyG
[QUOTE=not again;5060122]
Bruce Davidson and Mary Hazzard have probably bred more internationally successful horses than everyone else here combined…[/QUOTE]
I agree.
[QUOTE=TKR;5060124]
What about Warioto Farm in Tennessee that stood a number of stallions and produced alot of hunters for many years? I know the chestnut Thoroughbred stallion that showed and bred for years stood there – mind is blank (how unusual, LOL!). What about Hamilton Farm – they were certainly influential in their heyday?
Good Luck!
PennyG[/QUOTE]
Viscount but they didn’t own or breed him.
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