Sorry, I bought once from a breeder and had more trouble than it was worth. The dog came with parvo, although he was supposedly vaccinated by the breeder; she would also move puppies from one litter to another… which came to light when one of my guy’s litter did not get sick… he had been nursing with another litter… hum… She got to pay the vet for me! she did not like it but tough… I was not going to return my dog to her either.
That was the only illness that dog ever had though and he died 12 years to the day we brought him home. And I had picked one puppy, but when we got there, she has sold my puppy!! I did not make a fuss because my friend who knew her was with me but I would have never gone back. And that soured me with breeders!
It took forever to get his papers and to this day, I wonder if they really were his because of all the switching she was doing!
[QUOTE=threedogpack;6162618]
This was not based on one example. This is based on 13 years of training other people to train their dogs. Today was a study in why I will buy a purpose bred dog.[/QUOTE]
This reflects the feelings of the dog trainers I know. One breeds her own corgis to provide new competition partners. The other is an active foster (of many different breeds) but has purebreds for her owner partners. Same thing with the agility trainers I see at trials.
In my area, what you find in the shelter system is overwhelming imported from outside of the area and consists of hounds/hound mixes and pitbull types/pit mixes. These dogs aren’t suited for everyone. As a veterinarian, I have seen so many clients struggling to train dogs they’ve adopted who were severely undersocialized during their early weeks. I can usually see a difference at the 12 week puppy check between the dogs who have come from a reputable breeder versus other sources. My dog trainer friend sees the same thing, just so many people who are starting with extra challenges because they’re working with dogs who missed out on some critical education and socialization.
We love Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. They are good watch dogs, never run away from home, tolerate small animals climbing all over them, and generally just fit well in our lifestyle. We get our Chessies from a wonderful breeder who agrees to re-home any dog she sells who doesn’t work out. When we need a dog, we call the breeder. The next time she has a dog returned, or a dog is done with his or her show career, she decides if the dog will be a good match for us.
This is a winning combination for all of us. We get a dog who is well bred, and whose parents are certified to have good hips and eyes. The dogs get a suitable family. My 88 year old father has a Chessie from this breeder. We have 2. My older daughter has 1. All are lovely dogs.
We have had other breeds of dogs, but never anything as well suited to us as the Chessies. Chessies are strong willed and not for most people. For us, they are the best dogs.
If you want a purebred dog, think about alternatives to buying a puppy. If you work with a breed rescue or reputable breeder, you can have a nice purebred, and still feel like you have helped a dog who was in a bad situation.
How funny, I feel polar opposite. My experience with certain breeds in my line of work that are purpose bred, and are HIGHLY flighty, nervous, snappy, and unpredictable around strangers/vets or otherwise is precisely why I’ll never buy a dog. We see MANY quality dogs that I couldn’t and wouldn’t trust with a 10 foot pole, not just backyard breeder products. I like my genetic variety. Its interesting how people interpret certain situations!
We have two purpose-bred goldens from a reputable breeder.
Dog number 1: we asked for a family dog that would be a really good hunter. That is what we got.
Dog number 2: we asked for a family dog that would be a really good pet. That is what we got.
The dogs are closely related (one is a “nephew”) but very different. The hunting dog is a high energy, very driven dog to hunt and retrieve. The pet golden loves to retrieve but he is not over the top about it. Take him for a walk in the field and he’s happy but not in the highly driven hunting mode.
I would say that at least this breeder is very good at selecting out her puppies. And since we have little kids, temperament was not optional - which is why we bought our dogs instead of adopting. I wish people (not necessarily those here) wouldn’t try to lay a guilt trip on people who buy puppies from reputable breeders who have great dogs.
[QUOTE=irkenequine;6163245]
Its interesting how people interpret certain situations![/QUOTE]
there was no interpreting for me, it has been personal experience.
there was no interpreting for me, it has been personal experience.
Well mine as well, and I could not disagree with you more, I was just trying to say it in a non-aggressive way haha. It is interesting how personal experiences are interpreted and impact our overall impression of situations.
[QUOTE=threedogpack;6162857]
8 weeks.[/QUOTE]
Wow. Any breeder that would sell ANY animal that young is a puppymill. That is unacceptable for so many reasons. Gee. I wonder why the puppy had temperament problems? Just when the puppy needs to be with mom and siblings to learn socialization, it’s taken away from mom. And, there’s no way the puppy has a full set of shots, so it’s being stressed and not protected by shots yet.
Why is every one so bent on getting a dog from a Shelter?
I don’t wanna feed a troll. So I’ll just say wouldn’t it be nice if shelters functioned like lost and founds and not like trash compactors? Until you’ve become involved personally, you don’t get the critical situation shelters are in. As much as I admire breeds, love identifying them, talking about them, I think breeds have an absolute purpose in our world, abcdefg, I could never willingly pay someone to put more animals on this earth with one hand and euthanize perfectly lovely pets with the other. Me, personally. I don’t have an opinion on anyone else. But I certainly can’t do it.
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;6163438]
Wow. Any breeder that would sell ANY animal that young is a puppymill. That is unacceptable for so many reasons. Gee. I wonder why the puppy had temperament problems? Just when the puppy needs to be with mom and siblings to learn socialization, it’s taken away from mom. And, there’s no way the puppy has a full set of shots, so it’s being stressed and not protected by shots yet.[/QUOTE]
Seriously? I mean, really, do you have any experience or is this just your own thoughts?
I can tell you about my dog’s litter – by 8 weeks the puppies have been eating solid food for 3+ weeks and the mom won’t stay with them for long and doesn’t let them nurse anymore. And 7 eight week old puppies turn into a lot of scrappy fights…I’m not sure that is the type of socialization you want your puppy to learn!
I am sure this differs for many breeds but it’s very common for puppies to go home at 8 weeks. Some breeders keep them for a few weeks longer but they are not with their mommies anymore! Many breeders keep them longer to start them on house training and crate training.
[QUOTE=mrendrison;6163474]
Why is every one so bent on getting a dog from a Shelter?[/QUOTE]
Why the hell not?!? My current dog and my last one (lost to cancer at the age of 11) both came from shelters. Both had been living in a shelter for over three months each. No one wanted them as they were losing their minds and you would too living like that for that long. Both turned out to be the sweetest, most well behaved dogs you could ask for. Both are/were perfect family dogs. Now my father bought a lab from a reputable breeder for big bucks and he was a nightmare - he ended up giving him to dog trainer who he knows well. My father was all about buying purebreds but guess what - he’s looking at shelter dogs instead now after seeing my dogs and my sister’s dog - also a rescue. Don’t breed and buy while shelter animals die is how the saying goes.
For me I will NEVER buy from a breeder. NEVER.
[QUOTE=S1969;6163497]
Seriously? I mean, really, do you have any experience or is this just your own thoughts?
I can tell you about my dog’s litter – by 8 weeks the puppies have been eating solid food for 3+ weeks and the mom won’t stay with them for long and doesn’t let them nurse anymore. And 7 eight week old puppies turn into a lot of scrappy fights…I’m not sure that is the type of socialization you want your puppy to learn!
I am sure this differs for many breeds but it’s very common for puppies to go home at 8 weeks. Some breeders keep them for a few weeks longer but they are not with their mommies anymore! Many breeders keep them longer to start them on house training and crate training.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. I got my last two Dobes from the same breeder…I think they were about 9 1/2 weeks old. Reason for this is their ears were cropped and she always makes sure they are fulled healed before going to their news homes where they can start taping them. She wants to be SURE the ears are healed and not leave it up to anyone else.
The pups have been “weaned” from mom since they were about 5 weeks and not nursing anymore.
I wonder, with the trainers like the OP, if some of the reason might be that you’re not seeing a lot of the good dogs. I mean, I look at my 4 dogs…all 4 are rescues, and 3 have been easy to work with and I have been able to train them myself. The 4th is a neurotic uncontrollable mess. Guess which one went to the trainer? 
I know a lot of other people who also are able to train a dog with a basically good temperament but get assistance with the really difficult ones. As a trainer, you’ll be seeing a biased sample.
On top of that, it seems like most people I meet who buy from breeders also take every dog they own to training classes. Just my own experience. I don’t really know why that is, maybe just expectation or something. So you get the good and the bad there. Of course that may not be universally true–my sample is biased too.
I see nothing wrong with either getting a dog from a good breeder or getting a dog as a rescue. Whatever the dog owner is most comfortable with should be done without judgment (unless they’re just picking a random dog from a puppy mill, that’s just unethical ;)). If I really used my dogs for something I’d go with a breeder too. But really, there are tons of lovely dogs with good temperaments in shelters. I’ve volunteered in a few different ones over the years and seen more good dogs there than bad.
[QUOTE=mrendrison;6163474]
Why is every one so bent on getting a dog from a Shelter?[/QUOTE]
That is spam, not a troll.
Reported.
It is a good question and I will tell you one story.
Our city animal control shelter leases a wing to the local animal humane group I helped there for years.
We worked hard, had several days a week TV slots in the news and placed dogs thru that, had all kinds of programs at Petsmart and “Walk in the Park adopt a dog day”, etc.
We still have 30 to 100 dogs coming in A DAY, have only room for them for three days and they are euthanized if the humane group doesn’t pull them for an extra week of time to get them adopted.
Yes, some up to 80 unwanted dogs A DAY are killed, practically every DAY.:eek:
Now, they had a hurricane in New Orleans, one local private rescue lady, that has a grooming shop and dog training and daycare and boarding kennel and also helps with our city shelter went there and brought 200 homeless dogs from the hurricane.
That was big in the news and in two weeks all but six dogs were placed.
People were still calling about the “hurricane rescue” dogs and when told to go to the local shelter, they didn’t want to, they wanted to “rescue a hurricane dog”.:rolleyes:
Yes, it begs the question “why a rescue dog and why, in our situation, a hurricane rescue dog” and no other?
At 8 weeks every litter I’ve raised (and that’s a whole bunch) has been politely told to shove off by a tired mama and is ready to socialize with HUMANS and OTHER animals. And shots can be given outside the setting of the breeder’s immediate control. Not to mention passive immunity is still hanging
around.
The 3 dogs that have been “mine” in adulthood have all been social, outgoing, fit into most any situation dogs. First was a Heeler/JRT mix, second was a nicely bred Basset. Both were gotten as puppies. The dog I adopted a few months ago is a 2-ish Basset/Pitbull?/JRT? mix. She has the best personality traits of the previous 2 dogs and then some. Everyone, everywhere I go wants me to clone her.
My ex-husband had a decently bred Corgi and a well bred Shar Pei. I could blame their behavior on him but there was obviously more to it. My mother has 3 supremely bred show dogs that win everything. They are a vet’s dream and she says never again.
I have fostered 3 dogs of different mixes in the last 6 months (adopted one) and they have ALL come around to be appropriately social in a short time. Totally different personalities so I’ve done different things to work with them. Other than maybe the one who has some separation anxiety with her new owner, there is nothing good bloodlines could have improved in their temperaments.
While there is certainly no rule regarding shelter dog=best dog ever and purebred/breeder dog=biggest mistake ever (or vice versa), I will be getting my next dog from a great breeder (many years from now). This is because I have too many animals that are important, and the puppy needs to know ASAP what is acceptable behaviour and what isn’t.
You just made yourself sound rather… unintelligent. The vast majority of reputable breeders start sending pups home at 8wks. I got 2 of my dogs at 8wks., and one at 12wks. (of course only one of my dogs is from a reputable breeder, but still).
Coincidentally, the one I got at 12wks. that had been with his litter mates that long is what I call “socially inept”… he gets along just fine with other dogs, but has NO idea how to properly correct them.
[QUOTE=Beentheredonethat;6163438]
Wow. Any breeder that would sell ANY animal that young is a puppymill. [/QUOTE]
no, it was not a puppy mill. The mother was an individually owned dog. The client met the mother of her dog.
[QUOTE=LauraKY;6162596]
Seriously? Based on one example? I hope you neuter/spay whatever you get. The rest of us will continue to support rescues. I will never buy another dog. Love my three rescues! Do they have personality quirks? Sure they do. But, I love them all the same. So did my two purpose bred dogs. So what?
And exactly what was the point of your post? To discourage others from adopting pets?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this.
Many “purpose-bred” dogs are bred for one purpose – to make money for their breeders.
