Andalusians for dressage?

[Roan]

[QUOTE=Calliope;3591229]
I don’t think that this boy moves too badly.

He also does quite well in competition.

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=xcpq8QoxAxY[/QUOTE]

Could be my eyes but it looks like his front feet are weighted.

As for Andies in general – love them. My trainer has an Andie/TB cross she uses for fox hunting and I absolutely adore the brain on that girl. She’s what convinced me I wanted a baroque-type horse and why I bought a Lipizzan.

Competition-wise they do quite well and I wouldn’t pass one up for a “good moving warmblood”. They are more naturally collected than WBs and do better at the upper levels.

Eileen

[Calliope]

I’m not up on all the FEI rules, but I didn’t think that weighted shoes were acceptable?

Only bringing it up as this horse had just arrived back in Europe from the 2008 olympics; he stopped in at the Belgian nationals to give the locals a ‘thrill’ on his way home. I wouldn’t have thought he would be wearing weighted shoes… but I’ve been wrong before.

[spook1]

Well as much as I would like to say I want to go FEI…the realility of it is I am a ammy and would just like to get as high as I can get in the ring. So I guess I kinda want a horse who could fit both…the show horse and the dreamy horse…:lol:

[Roan]

It’s a buyer’s market. I don’t know how much you have to spend, but if it were me and I had the cash I’d be looking for an Andie that was already competing successfully at the lower levels.

Then you would have your dream horse, a competition horse, and room to do higher levels if you choose.

Eileen

[Roan]

[QUOTE=Calliope;3591282]
I’m not up on all the FEI rules, but I didn’t think that weighted shoes were acceptable?

Only bringing it up as this horse had just arrived back in Europe from the 2008 olympics; he stopped in at the Belgian nationals to give the locals a ‘thrill’ on his way home. I wouldn’t have thought he would be wearing weighted shoes… but I’ve been wrong before.[/QUOTE]

They’re not.

I’m referring to the boots he has on. I saw a flash of “metal” or something from the front boots.

Like I said, it could be my eyes.

Eileen

[horsegalriding]

I have a grey stallion whose temperment is fabulous. He just won the Region 9 USDF second level musical freestyle championship class held in Oklahoma last weekend. At the same show he came in third in the 2nd level test 4 championship class (against warmbloods), so he is a wonderful ambassador for the breed. Because they are so sensitive, you do have to be quiet in the saddle and with your hands, but my guy is completely unflappable. I have never worried about leading any other horse past him while in the cross ties, or having a mare next to him. You can breed him in the a.m. and ride him in the p.m.

[elly]

I do believe, that the video Calliope posted is of Juan Manuel Muñoz Díaz and his Andalusian bred Fuego XII who just recently became Grand Prix Champions at the 2008 Spanish Dressage Championships - Fuego has been successful in Europe.

[FuelsterFarm]

I’ve ridden at least two dozen Andalusians and a few Lusitanos and find the variety in the breeds very interesting. Some that I have ridden have been quiet and nearly too laid-back, some spooky as heck, some so eager to please that they anticipate your every request.

The same can be said for gaits. Many that I have ridden have been the more baroque type (versus the more modern sporty type being produced in the last few years) with lots of knee action, fairly tight backs and lacking freedom in the shoulder. Some of course are the complete opposite.

My preference is actually for crossbreds. I am most fond of WB x’s and have one here at my barn that is a joy to ride.

As far as getting involved in the breed, the politics can be brutal, but the shows can be an absolute blast. The IAHLA National show is a fun venue, as is taking “barbie doll” horses to nearly any show… they garner lots of attention.

At Dressage shows, the judging seems most fair and reasonable, but I have sat ringside watching my students riding their tests more than once, to hear little groups of fellow Dressage riders bashing Andalusians. It can be very disconcerting and discouraging.

[reidsporthorses.nz]

@dressagediosa;3589124

We imported an 8-year-old stallion for my mom this Spring. We chose an Andalusian because of their extremely reliable, laid-back temperment, and their very comfortable gaits (my mom’s got two bionic hips!). She took him to one show at Training Level, scoring a 74%; I’ve shown him at 3rd level with scores to 71%.

He is certainly a different “type” to ride than most of my warmbloods - he’s very short coupled, with quite a bit of curve to his back, and a big, cresty, high-set-on neck. I really liked the training he had from Europe, though some of the others we sat on were very much man’s horses, big and strong. I’ve found the greatest difficulty to be in the elasticity of the back - he’s got very fancy legs, and quite a bit of ability to engage the hindquarters and bear weight, but he can sometimes get “stuck” on his hind legs and not swing through. I also struggle a bit with the carriage, though I think that’s more the somewhere-between-3rd-and-PSG thing and not a breed trait, and with the ability to get bigger, longer steps instead of quicker, gaity-er steps, similar to any other breeds with a lot of knee action (Fresians, hackneys, arabs, etc).

When my mom is in town I only get to ride him about once every two weeks, so his progress up the levels takes a backseat to his real job - taking care of and teaching her. His greatest asset is that she feels 100% safe on him, all the time, but he is also sensitive to her balance and seat aids without being over-reactive, and is teaching her the fine art of being a quiet rider, a director instead of a manufacturer.

I’ve found the judging of him to be generally quite fair, although one judge penalized him rather severely for not having the poll at the highest point; with his thick, cresty neck, the poll can be the highest vertebrae point without being the highest fleshy point, which I’m not sure this judge realized. That was a very big ah-ha for me; every now and then I feel like I’m riding him a little deep, when in reality he’s in very good carriage. They consistantly encourage me to find bigger, longer steps, and to encourage him to move forward, not fast. He is unusual in that he has quite a nice straight-front-legged extended trot; many of the horses with a lot of knee action struggle with that.

He is certainly distinctive. He’s a bit like riding a Barbie horse, hair everywhere. They tend to be EXTREMLY easy keepers, the epitome of “air fern,” so I’ve had to take care in devising his feed and supplement regimine. He’s doing great on Purina’s Wellsolve WC, and a great supplement from Uckele Nutrition called Glycosemic-EQ, for insulin resistant horses. The shape and breadth of his back makes him a tricky saddle fit, but we ride in a wonderful cob saddle from Advanced Saddle Fit’s Detente line. They are traditionally kept intact, and while I do not take chances with him (he is kept in a paddock away from other horses, always led with a chain over the nose, we don’t let other horses pass him while he is on cross ties), he is not remotely studdy, and is a joy to handle and deal with every day.

Domestically, it’s hard to find ones with training, and because of their novelty, they tend to be quite expensive. I know my mom’s not planning on selling hers anytime soon!

Sheesh, sorry for the novel!

this has been my expierence as well… EXCEPT for the easy keeper- my guy is a worrier and walks his fence so he gets a TON to eat, but most are air ferns

i ride an imported PRE (basically pure spanish andalusian) stallion
we competed this year at PSG in open shows very fairly, including success against the big moving WBs… even at regional champs.

most of the PREs overseas are kept as stallions and generally have great manners- but they are raised and handedled quite strictly.

getting him to really swing through and use his back is another challenge- it doesnt happen easily and is relected in his scores in the medium/extended trot… they can fake collection quite easily, which is smooth and fun if you arent expierenced enough to recognise that the back isnt moving.
The canter is naturally more compact and sitting than most WB’s- lots of fun, but again getting the elasticity and use of the back is the trade off.

Import can be difficult because of piro. And a well trained horse will be expensive wether it is domestic or imported. There are quite a few nice younger/green to mid level horses in the US.

[reidsporthorses.nz]

pics of the one i ride
http://community.webshots.com/album/557074659IcRgwj

[andylover]

Andalusians for dressage

finally decided to post my opinions on the andalusian for dressage. albeit i am biased as i have raised two now. crossed with an appendix mare. I have a coming four year old that is just going to excel in the arena. He is big and powerful with big open shoulders and is a beautiful mover. on you tube there is a stallion rociero who is completely amazing to watch. they are great minded, willing partners and extremely devoted. it is true some are hotter than others and since mine have some t-bred in there bloodlines, they will tend to be hotter. they are extremely intelligent, learn something once and then it is in their brains for many years to come. i have asked my youngster to perform a part of their training that had not been done in a couple of years, and they always go right to it… minds like elephants. i think the breed itself is gaining more popularity in the US especially since Evento did so well at the Olmypics and now Rociero. that is just to mention a couple. but since there are limited numbers of purebred and crosses in the US, (but gaining in numbers), we will start to see more and more in the dressage arena.

[FriesianX]

Luckily, there is getting to be less and less of the uneducated opinion that only WBs can do dressage - the Andies, Lusitanos, Lippizans, and Freisians are really breaking through the barriers. You can be a serious competitor AND compete on a horse who is fun and beautiful and loves people. I have seen some Andies that ARE world class competitors - and others who are really more regional quality, but are fun horses and doing as well or better than the average WB.

With the Andies (and Lusis) - look for one that has the ability to reach from his shoulder and has a swingy back. Look carefully at the canter - some of them have the “bull fight” canter which won’t be of any help in the show ring. But - some of them are nice movers, and with most of the Baroque horses, once they get the basics, the collected work comes easy to them. And most of the Baroque breeds seem much more people oriented than the traditional sport horses - I’m not sure WHY, but it does make them much more fun to own!

[andylover]

andalusian bashing

fueslter farm, did you hear why those observers were bashing the andalusian? having come from a dressage area before, have seen people bash anything that does not fit the “norm” of what is shown in the arena and am wondering if that is what is going on with the andalusian?

[dudders]

OK, I’ll play too.

I have a 5-year old 3/4 Andi, 1/4 Arab. I bought him as a 2-year old, after having had mostly Arabians.

A few general notes from this adult ammie’s experience with this one horse (so fwiw):

-SMART. He was a great baby to start. I was really careful to take things one step at a time, but he’s picked it all up super fast, leading to next point …

-BALANCED. The most naturally balanced horse I’ve ever ridden. Do not underestimate this–combined with athleticism, it also means he’s incredibly efficient at being evasive before you ever realize what’s happened/going on!

-SMOOTH. He is wonderfully smooth. Can sit that trot bareback all day and adore the canter. Other posters have been very accurate in saying that they’ll rock back on the hindquarters easily–the real challenge (for me) is getting a free-swinging forward movement without locking up the base of the neck or leaning. As noted above, it’s surprisingly hard to tell when he’s TRULY through and when he’s not–because it’s all very subtle. He never falls apart.

-MANAGEMENT. Easy, easy keeper. I did let him get too fat last year, so had to switch barns so he could have what he needs–a big paddock with a friend and enough grass stubble to nibble and absolutely nothing else. He gets 1/2 measuring cup of TC Lite and 1 oz Quiessence, once daily, and 1 flake straight grass hay twice a day. That’s IT. He gets worked for an hour or so at moderate intensity at least four times a week. And he’s still legitimately fat.

-TEMPERAMENT. Hmm. Some of this might be the 1/4 arab (although not my experiecne with the full arabs I had) and/or just his age. He is not a forgiving horse. You need to watch him. He will take advantage of any opportunity on the ground and undersaddle. He will balk badly. He will convince himself that he’s afraid then get wrapped up in it and BELIEVE it. I guess the best words are determined and … macho, I guess. He and I have an understanding and it works. But I would not trust him with a handler or rider who isn’t 100% confident. He is VERY much oriented toward people, and me specifically (yeah yeah, classical conditionng, I know, but it’s still nice to have one that nickers and trots up to the fence–or squeals and gallops up if I’ve been gone for a couple days!).

Keeping all of this in mind, I LOVE him. He makes me work for it, but he is a challenge and a joy.

One bit of advice, find a trainer who understands this sort of horse and the natural abilities and challenges that come with this conformation.

So there you go.

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2239178940084267436YEKewN?vhost=pets

[twofatponies]

From an ammy perspective, and just one experience, but maybe relevant to the OP:

I have ridden one Andy, a stallion who is trained to some advanced dressage level I don’t ride. I just had a lesson on him, for kicks, to feel a different kind of horse.

My impressions were:

Really, really mellow personality - no “hotness” or spookiness. Really, really comfortable - you could read a book and drink a glass of wine while sitting that trot and canter.

I also noticed that his big powerful neck and compact build meant that he could very easily do a sort of false collection, while being absolutely locked up in the neck. Despite his being able to do half passes and pirouettes (I can never spell that!), I didn’t feel like he was really using himself fully in the simple work I was doing, but it was much harder to notice than it would be on, say, the warmbloods I usually ride in lessons.

His reaction to my mistakes tended to be to balk, rather than spaz, too - a sloppy half-halt or wrong leg cue would shut him down in an instant. If he wanted to be resistant to something, it came in the form of standing still and refusing to move.

In all of these things he reminded me a lot of several Morgans I’ve ridden. They share some of that body structure and temperament.

[MistyBlue]

Reidsporthorses…he’s a nice horse! :yes: I had just opened your photo link and was looking through them when my husband walked up behind me, then jabbed his finger at the computer screen and fairly shouted my ear off with, “That! That’s what I want! Right there! Is she for sale???” :lol: (every good looking horse to my husband is a mare for some reason)

[MistyBlue]

Well it wouldn’t have to be a for fun only horse. many do very well at dressage shows.

Agree with that slc. :yes: I don’t compete in dressage and am a rank greenie in it. However, in my rank greenie-ness I personally prefer the look of the movement of many of the Andies and Lusis rather than the WBs.
Andies and Lusis also do a pretty decent job in the jumper ring…my preferred discipline. Since I’m 100% comfortable with my abilities and also have little interest in advancing to the top levels of anything…my preferred use for a personal horse would be to hunter pace for fun, jump around at home or local smaller rated shows if I felt like it, maybe trailer over to chase some cows for fun, take a few dressage lessons here and there for fun…a little of everything I find fun…I like certain baroque horses for that.

[FriesianX]

[QUOTE=FuelsterFarm;3592766]

At Dressage shows, the judging seems most fair and reasonable, but I have sat ringside watching my students riding their tests more than once, to hear little groups of fellow Dressage riders bashing Andalusians. It can be very disconcerting and discouraging.[/QUOTE]

Ahhhhh, every show has the “rail birds” - don’t let them get you down. I’ve seen some pretty FUNNY stuff come out of them. Here are a few examples.

One show - 4 rail birds in matching polos (emblazoned with the name of a BNT’s barn). “Ooooh, look at her, nice horse, must be imported.” “Lovely, wouldn’t it be fun to have her in our barn.” Pause - announcer announces the lovely horse’s name, rider name, and registry - turns out she is a Hackney/Tbred cross. They roll their eyes and all of a sudden, the comments change, “Oh, look how out behind she is”, “Oh dear, I had her mistaken for another horse”. And they walk away.

Another show - rail birds again, this time putting down a horse in a 2nd level class (he’s a pinto, must not be any good). Then he wins all his classes over the weekend at 2nd level with a 5% to 10% (not points, %) lead over the Warmbloods and other horses.

Don’t pay attention to rail birds, unless they have credentials, they just represent caustic humor :lol: I’m willing to bet there are just as many watching the Andies and saying how nice it is to see such lovely horses!

[andylover]

andys for dressage

dudders you are so right in your assessment and i tell you my coming four year old could be a clone of yours :lol:.

[Seekorion6811]

Andalusians in dressage

You just have to find the right Andalusian for dressage–one that moves more “out” than “up.” If price is an issue (and for must of us…isn’t it always), I would look for an Andie cross. I’ve seen some really cool Aztecas (And/QH crosses), as well as some other crosses. The IALHA registers crosses and has classes at their shows and awards for them too.

I have a 4-year-old Andalusian/Holsteiner cross who is a very nice mover. I agree with the other posts that Andies are different. Mine is not laid back, but she’s not “hot” in the normal sense of the word. She doesn’t like to make mistakes, and she gets bored easily. She does spook, but she doesn’t really get nervous.

The biggest obstacle to her dressage training has been dealing with the neck. Like most baroque horses, she has a thick, cresty neck, and she will use it against me if I let her. Getting her to stretch correctly over her topline has taken a bit longer than with warmbloods I’ve trained, but she learns fast and always tries. Overall, she’s a really cool mare, and I’m excited about her dressage career.

Good luck finding your dream horse.