Andrew Kocher - electrical spurs?

[SlamDunk]

@MrsFitzDarcy&Feliks

What kind of horses needs a shock to go forward? If you can’t a horse to go, maybe you should ride a thoroughbred. Holy moly, I only used the smallest of spurs on my TBs. I’d be in the next county with roweled spurs, never mind a shock treatment.

It’s not that they need a shock to go forward, more like the need to be afraid enough to never stop no matter what he throws at them in front of a 1.50m jump (or if he makes them jump a derby the day after they win a multi round GP)

[Anne]

@skydy

If you look at the photos on the French news site you can see the wires inside his wrist and down his breeches as well. https://grandprix.info/fr/41179/Andrew_Kocher_soupconne_davoir_utilise_des_eperons_electriques_en_concours

Which would be why I said “at first”.

[Texarkana]

@Peggy

According to a story I heard maybe 15 years ago, that has happened, though not to AK. It happened at a show in Europe. Guy was on course, apparently it shorted, and he ran screaming out of the ring and into the woods and frantically pulled his pants down to remove the wires.

I’ve heard similar anecdotes happening to jockeys trying to hide machines (electric shockers to make the horses run faster). The story goes unlucky fellows would try to hide it in their breeches, and would be running awfully funny back to the jock’s room. :lol:

[omare]

“It’s not that they need a shock to go forward, more like the need to be afraid enough to never stop no matter what he throws at them in front of a 1.50m jump (or if he makes them jump a derby the day after they win a multi round GP)”

This is the point.

[alicen]

From the patent page: " In the training of horses and in the competitive riding of horses, such as in rodeos, for example, it frequently is necessary to force a horse to react in a predetermined manner. To accomplish this objective, it is quite common for the rider to wear a spur on each foot and to apply the spurs to the flanks or shoulders of the horse. Many of the spurs currently in use have sharpened tips or rowels which, applied to the horse, produce the desired reaction, but frequently break or wound the horses skin. Such wounds not only can be painful to the horse but also risk infection. In addition, such wounds, when healed, frequently present an unsightly appearance.

An object of this invention is to provide a spur construction which is capable of producing a desired reaction of a horse, but which overcomes the disadvantages of conventional spurs."

Ah ha! Apparently this device would remove the problem of being eliminated by bloodied flanks caused by spurs.

[skydy]

@omare

“It’s not that they need a shock to go forward, more like the need to be afraid enough to never stop no matter what he throws at them in front of a 1.50m jump (or if he makes them jump a derby the day after they win a multi round GP)”

This is the point.

That ride was a disgusting example of complete lack of human feeling for a horse, one that had just given its all the day before at that. I can’t watch it again.

Yes, he certainly isn’t the first rider to use horses with complete self centeredness and no regard for the horse. Unless he is involved in killing them for the insurance money a la Barney Ward, it’s likely that USEF will let him slide with a suspension, if that.

I’d love to be wrong though…:yes:

[AffirmedHope]

@skydy

That ride was a disgusting example of complete lack of human feeling for a horse, one that had just given its all the day before at that. I can’t watch it again.

Yes, he certainly isn’t the first rider to use horses with complete self centeredness and no regard for the horse. Unless he is involved in killing them for the insurance money a la Barney Ward, it’s likely that USEF will let him slide with a suspension, if that.

I’d love to be wrong though…:yes:

Unless the FEI bans him, then USEF has to I believe.

Has the FEI ever handed down a lifetime ban?

[Mara]

@Equibrit

Been around way longer than that; http://afflictor.com/2011/07/24/old-…ly-eagle-1900/

Aaaand an American was responsible.

Apparently one can also avail oneself of electrified GIRTHS:mad:

[skydy]

@AffirmedHope

Unless the FEI bans him, then USEF has to I believe.

Has the FEI ever handed down a lifetime ban?

Not yet. This is the most severe penalty so far, and the horse died. https://inside.fei.org/system/files/…0_Redacted.pdf

[skydy]

Here’s the short version; https://inside.fei.org/content/fei-tribunal-hands-down-record-sanction-horse-abuse-case

[caffeinated]

@omare

“It’s not that they need a shock to go forward, more like the need to be afraid enough to never stop no matter what he throws at them in front of a 1.50m jump (or if he makes them jump a derby the day after they win a multi round GP)”

This is the point.

Back in the spruce thread I remember encouraging amazement that horses continue to try to jump for riders like this, when all I had to do was sit crooked or drop the reins and they’d say “nope” to me.

I guess that answers that question

[Midge]

@Bobby7

I think the major problem with cracking down on things like this is that you’d probably be very surprised what goes on behind closed doors. A lot of the big trainers actually have you sign a contract you won’t disclose their training methods. This might surprise people but shocking horses is nothing new and there’s many other methods. I would suspect most people would be smarter and not use it in the ring though!

Like who?

[Heinz_57]

Wish I didn’t know this was a thing, but I saw the video of the barrel racer zapping the crud out of her horse with some electronic device under the saddle and taking out pipe panels in a warm-up area a while back. Some of the people nearby almost dragged her off that horse. Until then I has no idea such things existed.

Some people are lazy and cruel and completely devoid of horsemanship. They deserve a swift kick in the ass.

[Annie_Burton]

@Bethe Mounce

There’s a jockey or two who also has carried an electric device and got caught w/ consequences. I thought, at a quick glance, it was the handle of his whip, but no whip in his hand in the pics. Should there be sufficient pictures and proof to prove he is carrying a shocker, (called a jigger on the track), lifetime ban works for me. Not his first rodeo with abuse; FEI has said nothing about Spruce Meadows.

A jockey or two? It’s commonly used and commonly known. But people keep going unpunished for it. Here is the most famous, most “respected” Hall-of-Fame jockey in our country, Gary Stevens, and super-trainer D Wayne Lucas, caught at a dinner party when they blatantly boast about using electric shock devices, with their listeners laughing along: https://youtu.be/tNhoYxYr070

If this is not evidence (to those who know their voices well), then what is. If Kocher is not suspended asap (everyone is now watching VERY closely to see what the FEI will do with him), then nothing will ever change.

It’s another change moment, triggered by multiplying evidence. And the organizations we are part of and pay memberships to must show that they can act in the interest of our non-voting partners: our dear horses. Kick out the bad apples. Set examples.

[Xctrygirl]

Ahhh the barrel racer with the electric saddle pad. The crowd reactions are the best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edHjeGzc2Ao

Em

[JenEM]

@Mara

Apparently one can also avail oneself of electrified GIRTHS:mad:

I “get” the electrified spur/whip thing, however abhorrent and abusive I might find it. But what is the point of an electrified GIRTH?

[TheMoo]

@AffirmedHope

Unless the FEI bans him, then USEF has to I believe.

Has the FEI ever handed down a lifetime ban?

If I’m not mistaken, I think the FEI leveled a lifetime ban for a sheik in endurance.

[NaturallyHappy]

@Heinz 57

Wish I didn’t know this was a thing, but I saw the video of the barrel racer zapping the crud out of her horse with some electronic device under the saddle and taking out pipe panels in a warm-up area a while back. Some of the people nearby almost dragged her off that horse. Until then I has no idea such things existed.

Some people are lazy and cruel and completely devoid of horsemanship. They deserve a swift kick in the ass.

These people should have to touch an electric fence w both hands while standing in water.

[alibi_18]

@JenEM

I “get” the electrified spur/whip thing, however abhorrent and abusive I might find it. But what is the point of an electrified GIRTH?

Legs at the girth I suppose.

I guess it’s not the whole thing which is electrified, but some spots along the side.

Less obvious than the spurs.

[skydy]

@TheMoo

If I’m not mistaken, I think the FEI leveled a lifetime ban for a sheik in endurance.

See post #51