Okay - forget the term “burden of proof.” Just saying: If a person makes an extraordinary claim, it’s up to them to prove it, not to the doubter to disprove it.
It’s like Bertrand Russell’s “teapot.”
Abstract:
Abstract "The hypothesis to detect a sequence of events by analyzing the EEG activity of two human partners spatially separated and connected only mentally, was explored sending to a member of the couple a sequence of silence-signal events and analyzing the EEG activity of the second member of the couple. By using a special classification algorithm and five couples of participants characterized by a long friendship and a capacity in maintaining a focused mental concentration, we observed an overall percentage of correct coincidences of 78%, ranging from one-hundred percent for the first two segments, to approximately forty-three percent of the last two. The percentages of coincidences of the first five segments of the protocol were above eighty percent.
Furthermore a robust statistically significant correlation was observed in the alpha band in twelve out fifteen pairs of recordings.
The observed results seem supporting the possibility to connect two brains at distance excluding conventional means, paving the way to devise a sort of mental telecommunication at distance." Emphasis added by me. Science in scientific language.
[QUOTE=Sandy M;8398910]
Okay - forget the term “burden of proof.” Just saying: If a person makes an extraordinary claim, it’s up to them to prove it, not to the doubter to disprove it.
It’s like Bertrand Russell’s “teapot.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot[/QUOTE]
Or they could conduct experiments in line with accepted scientific standards. Which is what scientists do. Science may not always seek to prove. It may seek to test. You are lumbering science with a single task, which in fact is not the reality of how science and scientists work and conduct experiments.
[QUOTE=Sandy M;8398906]
They don’t need $1 million? Then why do they charge for their services? They don’t want to be validated? Think how many more people would want their services. There is no proof it works, only ancedotes, influenced by cold (and sometimes hot) reading. I know lie detectors are NOT accurate, but if they were, I’d sure like to hook up an AC - any AC - to one and ask them if they don’t want/need $1 million. Heck, if they’re into helping people, think of all the people/horses they could help with $1 million. Just weasling out of being asked to truly PROVE their ability.[/QUOTE]
I have never heard of this prize, so it’s possible that it’s just not well known?
No, they don’t (necessarily) want to be validated.
They already know they are getting factual info. Many ACs are very aware of the dismissive nature, so many are very quiet about the gift. (Not all, just some).
You are placing your own expectations of what they should do. I don’t know why they don’t… maybe you could actually talk to someone and ask them! what a concept LOL
[QUOTE=Sandy M;8398910]
Okay - forget the term “burden of proof.” Just saying: If a person makes an extraordinary claim, it’s up to them to prove it, not to the doubter to disprove it.
It’s like Bertrand Russell’s “teapot.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot[/QUOTE]
Extraordinary claim? how so?
Haven’t any of you had “gut feelings”? a weird vibe about someone that you can’t explain? this is nothing more than an expansion of those ideas. It’s just getting a feeling from another spirit.
that is all this is, not some weird woo woo stuff.
SendenHorse, no sense trying to open a closed mind.
The tangible is not always seen, heard, or felt. Yet it can be experienced. 
A court room and a laboratory have a lot in common. In both places facts are averred and then tested. We can argue about semantics but the reality is that there is little difference between the two.
Cloaking AC and other perceived methods of non-physical communication in the raiment of “science” and using the terminology of “science” does not make it “science.”
And worse, it does nothing for the horse, that allegedly is the Object of the Exercise.
Again, there has yet to be any proof that there is a “there” there. All there has been are links to places that have proved nothing and long diatribes on how those who reject the content of those links have “closed minds.” That’s just a combination of table pounding and ad hominem.
The hard fact is that AC beyond the normal interaction of horse and handler has been postulated but never, as in NEVER, proven.
G.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;8398988]
A court room and a laboratory have a lot in common. In both places facts are averred and then tested. We can argue about semantics but the reality is that there is little difference between the two.
Cloaking AC and other perceived methods of non-physical communication in the raiment of “science” and using the terminology of “science” does not make it “science.”
And worse, it does nothing for the horse, that allegedly is the Object of the Exercise.
Again, there has yet to be any proof that there is a “there” there. All there has been are links to places that have proved nothing and long diatribes on how those who reject the content of those links have “closed minds.” That’s just a combination of table pounding and ad hominem.
The hard fact is that AC beyond the normal interaction of horse and handler has been postulated but never, as in NEVER, proven.G.[/QUOTE]
Proven how? you really think NIH will spend money on this? When labs are being shut down left and right?
Curing disease takes precendence over proving if horses talk to us! LOL
People can hardly take stem cells in the US ethically, how on earth will this ever be tested?
Another way around this–
You would need a weathy donor or foundation, but anytime the system goes private I worry about bias in setting up trials and trying to prove or disprove these things.
I’ve done my own trials and proven to myself this is true. I suggeted here that those who are skeptacle interact with several ACs and see for yourself, worst thing is you are out some money and time, but think of it like gambling, or being in a show-- little return fincially for the experiences!
Nature is very hard to test, even in a controlled lab, with controlled situations.
I’m not making this “science”, you are. I’m ok not proving everything. that is why I don’t measure as carefully when I cook at home as when I’m in the lab doing experiments.
Sometimes it is fun for me to expand in a new way, not always have to be so left brained…
Left and right brains can coexsist, there is a place for both in the AC experiences, just make sure you give the creative side a chance to work. that is were the real transformation happens.
And no, I mean no, AC or human intuitive would EVER suggest this as stand alone medical advice, no way. None that I know anyway…
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8399030]
Proven how? you really think NIH will spend money on this? When labs are being shut down left and right?
Curing disease takes precendence over proving if horses talk to us! LOL
People can hardly take stem cells in the US ethically, how on earth will this ever be tested?
Another way around this–
You would need a weathy donor or foundation, but anytime the system goes private I worry about bias in setting up trials and trying to prove or disprove these things.
I’ve done my own trials and proven to myself this is true. I suggeted here that those who are skeptacle interact with several ACs and see for yourself, worst thing is you are out some money and time, but think of it like gambling, or being in a show-- little return fincially for the experiences!
Nature is very hard to test, even in a controlled lab, with controlled situations.
I’m not making this “science”, you are. I’m ok not proving everything. that is why I don’t measure as carefully when I cook at home as when I’m in the lab doing experiments.
Sometimes it is fun for me to expand in a new way, not always have to be so left brained…
Left and right brains can coexsist, there is a place for both in the AC experiences, just make sure you give the creative side a chance to work. that is were the real transformation happens.
And no, I mean no, AC or human intuitive would EVER suggest this as stand alone medical advice, no way. None that I know anyway…[/QUOTE]
You claim to be a scientist. If you are one then you know precisely how to set up an experiment that can confirm that AC has a basis in fact. You claim it’s real; it’s up to you to establish the point.
G.
[QUOTE=Kwill;8398820]
We are back to, who cares if it is real, people like it. Fair enough.[/QUOTE]
So perhaps the take-home message from this thread IS . . . drum roll . . . any time you get sick of your job, retire, get fired, or fail to get promoted, what the hey, stay home and pop up a web site somewhere billing yourself as an AC. You say they are booked solid all day long at $20-$50 an hour? Shoot, that’s some pretty good bank, done steadily, and beats the poop out of working in Wal-Mart or the Post Awful.
All you need is a phone, an ad, some “empathy” and a really, REALLY good line of bovine entire-male effluent. :winkgrin:
I think we should all start TOMORROW! Highly edifying this thread . . . this is how we learn what’s really “out there.”
[QUOTE=Guilherme;8398988]
A court room and a laboratory have a lot in common. In both places facts are averred and then tested. We can argue about semantics but the reality is that there is little difference between the two.
Cloaking AC and other perceived methods of non-physical communication in the raiment of “science” and using the terminology of “science” does not make it “science.”
And worse, it does nothing for the horse, that allegedly is the Object of the Exercise.
Again, there has yet to be any proof that there is a “there” there. All there has been are links to places that have proved nothing and long diatribes on how those who reject the content of those links have “closed minds.” That’s just a combination of table pounding and ad hominem.
The hard fact is that AC beyond the normal interaction of horse and handler has been postulated but never, as in NEVER, proven.
G.[/QUOTE]
Which doesn’t prevent a barn owner in my local area from billing herself as a “mystic” and a “horse whisperer” among other “impressive” credentials.
What is most scary to me is that as professionals in the equine industry, we are increasingly going to not only encounter these irrational, magical-thinking beliefs, we’re going to have to find a way to get through to these people that the ONLY way to success in horsemanship is by the traditional route–there is no form of “magic” invented yet that can give someone mastery over a horse, or command the powers of nature for healing.
I couldn’t care less if people entertain themselves with junk like this, in the way they might get a palm reading at a county fair. But when they really BELIEVE it and you can’t talk them out of the idea that their horse expressed some desire or opinion, I can frankly see this becoming a tremendous problem in the industry if it’s more than a passing fad.
Perhaps it will take countries like China, Malaysia, South Korea, and India rolling over our face economically to convince us to take “science” seriously!
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8398595]
The very fact that a thread on this subject can actually provide an ARGUMENT for 13 pages is proof of how anti-science, indeed anti-REALITY even so-called “educated” people in the USA have become. This does not bode well. I’d hate to be the DVM who gets fired by a horse owner because her AC said he doesn’t like treatment or would rather eat carrots out of a red bucket.
Now excuse me; I have a telepathic lunch date on Atlantis. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
That is sadly true. I had the same issue with the “homeopathy does too work, I have proof” thread a while back; the language of science is co-opted on a superficial but vigorous level by folks who really just don’t get it.
There is literally over $2 million in price money for anyone that can prove any of a number of paranormal abilities, including telepathy. Here’s a list; none of these have been claimed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal
I love the people here with their “I have evidence, I have proof. Oh, a million bucks? Nah, not interested at all…”
[QUOTE=Coanteen;8399125]
That is sadly true. I had the same issue with the “homeopathy does too work, I have proof” thread a while back; the language of science is co-opted on a superficial but vigorous level by folks who really just don’t get it.
There is literally over $2 million in price money for anyone that can prove any of a number of paranormal abilities, including telepathy. Here’s a list; none of these have been claimed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal
I love the people here with their “I have evidence, I have proof. Oh, a million bucks? Nah, not interested at all…”[/QUOTE]
“There is one born every minute”.
[QUOTE=Bluey;8399127]
“There is one born every minute”.[/QUOTE]
“And two to take him.” 
And in response to Coanteen’s post above, the co-opting of “scientific” language by various snake oilers seems to have “moments” in history. The 1870’s through 1900 was a big one–“horse whisperers” and “tamers” and “spiritualists” and “mediums” were very thick on the ground, and both the chiropractic and homeopathic belief systems came into being at that time. TONS of otherwise intelligent people really believed in seances and talking to the dead, which is at LEAST as believable as homeopathy and equine chiro.
Wonder if there isn’t a propensity for this stuff when the pace of technology and cultural change is moving a little fast for some people? In that 19th century time frame, we were in the act of heavily industrializing, becoming a world power, and scientifically debunking hundreds or thousands of years’ worth of “settled” belief about the nature of the universe, the uniqueness of man, the role of animals with us as Pinnacle Predator, and via the railroad and telegraph what had seemed an infinite world suddenly became a much smaller place. At the same time the U.S. was being inundated with what today we’d call “multi-culturalism.” :winkgrin: Historically important authority figures like monarchies and clergymen were losing power as military and economic authority arose to take their place. People felt very insecure . . .
I can definitely see a parallel with the world on today’s TV screen daily.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;8399068]
You claim to be a scientist. If you are one then you know precisely how to set up an experiment that can confirm that AC has a basis in fact. You claim it’s real; it’s up to you to establish the point.
G.[/QUOTE]
No, I don’t know how to set up this experiment. I know how to set up and test hypothesis, yes, but AC work is not what my work is about.
Why don’t you run non-biased experiments to prove it doesn’t work? Why is it all on me? I don’t care if it gets proven in that sense, it’s proven itself to be real to me. You seem to care, so be my guest!
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8399098]
So perhaps the take-home message from this thread IS . . . drum roll . . . any time you get sick of your job, retire, get fired, or fail to get promoted, what the hey, stay home and pop up a web site somewhere billing yourself as an AC. You say they are booked solid all day long at $20-$50 an hour? Shoot, that’s some pretty good bank, done steadily, and beats the poop out of working in Wal-Mart or the Post Awful.
All you need is a phone, an ad, some “empathy” and a really, REALLY good line of bovine entire-male effluent. :winkgrin:
I think we should all start TOMORROW! Highly edifying this thread . . . this is how we learn what’s really “out there.”[/QUOTE]
It’s so nice of you to make a mockery of this, but I didn’t expect anything better from you.
Well, some might be this stupid to fall for an online scheme. A fool and his money are soon parted!
This is just like any other field- reputation is everything. Those who are not reliable will surely fail, and quickly.
[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8399128]
“And two to take him.”
And in response to Coanteen’s post above, the co-opting of “scientific” language by various snake oilers seems to have “moments” in history. The 1870’s through 1900 was a big one–“horse whisperers” and “tamers” and “spiritualists” and “mediums” were very thick on the ground, and both the chiropractic and homeopathic belief systems came into being at that time. TONS of otherwise intelligent people really believed in seances and talking to the dead, which is at LEAST as believable as homeopathy and equine chiro.
Wonder if there isn’t a propensity for this stuff when the pace of technology and cultural change is moving a little fast for some people? In that 19th century time frame, we were in the act of heavily industrializing, becoming a world power, and scientifically debunking hundreds or thousands of years’ worth of “settled” belief about the nature of the universe, the uniqueness of man, the role of animals with us as Pinnacle Predator, and via the railroad and telegraph what had seemed an infinite world suddenly became a much smaller place. At the same time the U.S. was being inundated with what today we’d call “multi-culturalism.” :winkgrin: Historically important authority figures like monarchies and clergymen were losing power as military and economic authority arose to take their place. People felt very insecure . . .
I can definitely see a parallel with the world on today’s TV screen daily.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what your point is here?
I have talked to dead spirits myself, so what?
That is nothing new. Nothing being told here isn’t anything earth shattering. It’s just how it always was, but now we just have some people using the internet as a tool to advertise their business. You may just be finding out about this and it’s news to you.
[QUOTE=Guilherme;8399068]
You claim to be a scientist. If you are one then you know precisely how to set up an experiment that can confirm that AC has a basis in fact. You claim it’s real; it’s up to you to establish the point.
G.[/QUOTE]
Since you seem to care so much about this testing, why not set up a study yourself?
I know, I know, the burden of proof is somehow on me to come up with something. But that would require me caring enough about this to bother.
[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8399315]
Since you seem to care so much about this testing, why not set up a study yourself?
I know, I know, the burden of proof is somehow on me to come up with something. But that would require me caring enough about this to bother.[/QUOTE]
Kind of hard to ask anyone to prove what is not there?
Makes more sense for those that think there is something to prove it is there.
If they really believe it is, they ought to be able to prove it, if it really is there.
If not, well, it is not there.
This has been an interesting thread. It seems to be stuck in a back-and-forth, right/wrong mode. So I will add my .02 cents and see where it goes. This is something that happened to me about 10 years ago, and it is documented.
My husband and I went through a very bad time when we were trying to have children. We had a failed IVF (embryos were good, my personal health was not). There were embryos left over from the procedure, which were frozen in case we wanted to try again.
I then found out I had cancer. After being treated for cancer, I’d had enough of all things medical and we decided to donate the embryos to the program so that another couple might have success.
So, we got all that in motion and were waiting for some final paperwork. It was taking a long time-we called and were assured that “the lab is just being slow. No worries.” Some time after that, it was a Monday evening and I was resting. I had a terrible wave of sadness come over me, literally out of the blue. I knew that my embryos were gone; I was (literally) crying and couldn’t shake the feeling that something had happened to them. I knew.
Tuesday I sent an email to the doctor. “Hey Dr. X, I know this may seem strange, but I had this terrible feeling yesterday that something is wrong. Just let me know all is well, btw we are still waiting on that paperwork.” *paraphrased
He called me Wednesday. He said (and I will never forget his words) “I destroyed your embryos on Monday and I got your email Tuesday.”
Turns out that the IVF program was being discontinued, and the lab and the hospital we were going to had parted ways (no one bothered to inform us of that fact). We didn’t receive our paperwork because it was returned to sender due to insufficient postage. The doctor found the paperwork stuffed in our file instead of being mailed to us again with proper postage. Dr. was also in a hurry to get out of there and go to another program, and too f*cking lazy to pick up the phone and call me before he did what he did.
Getting back to the original point: I have a copy of my email. I have a response from the doctor, on official letterhead, stating this is what happened. So how did I know they (my embryos) had been destroyed?
I can’t go all the way back through this thread, but one person heard her dying aunt’s response in her head, and another person received images from a few different animals. I think this is possible. I don’t think it’s something that can be done “on demand.” I’ve never had an experience like the one with the IVF since. But I knew, without words.
I’m not sure AC is possible in the way that some claim, as in having conversations and getting responses to specific questions. But I do think it’s possible to receive images and impressions from animals. Carry on.
