Is it true that the woman in the video is their “head trainer”? The way she handled the pony was like she was barely out of beginner rank.
[QUOTE=Gloria;8120471]
Is it true that the woman in the video is their “head trainer”? The way she handled the pony was like she was barely out of beginner rank.[/QUOTE]
Yes. 100% true.
I also just learned moments ago that the trainer/farm plans to bring students and horses to Brownland Farm’s Spring II show this weekend in Franklin, TN despite the ongoing investigation.
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8120292]
[…] because I’m not sure who on earth would continue patronizing a business with such horrible allegations against them. Reporters have been out in front of the place all week. I would want zero part of that.[/QUOTE]
Well, because allegations are allegations and reporters are merely reporting that a story exists, not acting as judge/jury/executioner.
If you go look on the thread in Menagerie about the vet that killed the cat, you’ll see allegations are continuing against the clinic AFTER it fired the vet, and another clinic–not even related to the situation except that it shares a similar name–is ALSO being attacked online. If everyone jumped ship based on allegations alone, two businesses would be ruined unfairly, based only on mob mentality/knee-jerk reactions from people not taking time to find out the facts of the situation.
So, not commenting on this barn/situation in particular, but I personally would not jump ship from a barn that I were otherwise happy with just because some allegations blew up, or even because reporters were at the door.
The mob mentality that happens behind these things very often does. not. get. it. right. I would want to make sure I understood the allegations, the situation, the explanations of people involved… that I had weighed everything up against my personal experience/assessment of characters involved… and THEN I would make my decision about staying or going.
IIRC, you had some experience with this barn before and your opinion wasn’t positive even before this happened, right? So it’s natural that this is confirmation of what you already believed/seems very clear-cut for you.
But for the boarders who are there, it’s probably not that clear. They may be trying to figure out if the situation really is horrible or if it’s a mob attack to an incident blown out of proportion. If this is the first (or one of the first) barns they have been to, they may not know how to judge the situation completely, and they may be relying much more heavily on reassurances from the barn owner/trainer than someone with more experience would.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the barn sees some high turnover in the near future, but I don’t find it shocking that there isn’t a mass exodus at this point.
Halt Near X, you are very right and are much more levelheaded about this as an outside observer.
However, I see a good pony that I formerly knew being lashed out upon in an inappropriate manner for no good reason.
So um yeah, no matter how you spin this, it’s going to look pretty clear cut from my POV. I find it disappointing when others who also know the pony don’t feel the same way.
[QUOTE=Texarkana;8120292]
I would like to know what Daniela and the trainer are telling their current clients, because I’m not sure who on earth would continue patronizing a business with such horrible allegations against them. Reporters have been out in front of the place all week. I would want zero part of that.
But at the same time, I know that Daniela makes a point to keep her clients dumb and in the dark when it comes to horses. As much as Daniela tries to make the place appear like a top show barn, it is a beginner lesson barn that caters to newbie kids with upper middle class parents. It is rare for students to advance very far beyond the beginner ranks. If they do, it is unlikely they stay very long. Usually by that point they either realize the shortcomings of the barn or butt heads with Daniela, as she is an extraordinarily difficult person to get along with.
Thanks to all this, I just saw that they have qualified a pony for Pony Finals. In years past, I have never once known them to attend anything more than schooling shows. I guess that has changed since they hired Miss “Whips Ponies In The Face.” Although it looks like the pony qualified by winning Reserve Champion out of a division with 4 entries. It was a 50/50 shot.[/QUOTE]
I rode here as recently as 5 months ago. I can vouch for everything thus far said about Cowboy. Honestly, in my ten years of riding (mostly in NC, just recently relocated to TN) I have seen very few that are as much as a saint and a packer as he is.
About 5 months ago, when I also left, their newest head trainer also left. She knows her stuff, and I left with her. Very great, patient trainer who decided to open her barn in the area due to how things were run at CRA. As a result of her leaving, Kim Smith - the lady abusing Cowboy in the video - was made the head trainer. From there, things went downhill. Many, many clients have left CRA after Kim became head trainer citing that she made children cry in lessons from yelling at them so much or for her treatment of the horses, and followed my trainer (the one previously head trainer at CRA) to our new barn. I can tell many a story that these clients have told about ponies with bloody noses from being beaten by Kim or from horses that had obviously been abused by her and tensed up and began to spin around to go back to the barn just at the sound of Kim’s voice. HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE and Daniela knows about it and LETS IT HAPPEN. People are trying to say she was unaware of it but I know for a fact THIS IS NOT TRUE.
As far the kid qualifying for pony finals goes, she was training with my trainer (one who left CRA 5 months ago) and no doubt that is why she is doing well at shows…credit DOES NOT and SHOULD NOT go to Kim. Kid is a good rider to her credit, though, but has stayed at CRA throughout the constant trainer-to-trainer-to-trainer cycle that has plagued the place. She is showing this weekend at a show with another barn, according to her most recent Instagram picture, so it appears that Kim did not go to the show - with her at least.
I am happy to provide anyone with anymore info or details – just didn’t want to make this post any longer so I will stop here
I have seen this type before. They have no skill, so they get poor results, even from very good horses. When they get poor results they resort to violence because they haven’t the foggiest idea how to get good results. They are aggressive with animals and people because they are too lazy, too stupid and too self-absorbed to learn how to do it properly.
Some of these types are drawn to horses because it makes them feel powerful to abuse a being larger than they are who won’t fight back. They are bullies and cowards.
It is blatantly obvious that this self-proclaimed “trainer”, Kim, has no knowledge, skill or talent with horses or clients.
I find it ironic that the owner supports the trainer, but calls the girls who taped the abuse criminals. What kind of twisted logic is that? If the owner supports the actions of this trainer then she should be proud to have the video posted. Her statements prove to me that she is fully aware that the actions of this trainer are abusive. She’s just mad that the dirty little secret is out and it’s out in a BIG WAY! What is it they say about Karma? Karma’s a what? :eek:
I truly hope this ends both of their careers with horses.
I also suspect many of these types are actually scared of horses.
[QUOTE=RhythmNCruise;8118453]
I’d like to get a longe whip after that hussy and beat her like a pinata. [/QUOTE]
This had me spitting out my coffee! Can I use this?
If actual adult professionals saw abuse and did nothing, they are just as guilty as that monster. If a kid could figure out how to secretly tape it, they could have.
[QUOTE=Albertabound;8120688]
I find it ironic that the owner supports the trainer, but calls the girls who taped the abuse criminals. What kind of twisted logic is that? If the owner supports the actions of this trainer then she should be proud to have the video posted. Her statements prove to me that she is fully aware that the actions of this trainer are abusive. She’s just mad that the dirty little secret is out and it’s out in a BIG WAY! What is it they say about Karma? Karma’s a what? :eek:
I truly hope this ends both of their careers with horses.[/QUOTE]
I’m trying not to inflect too much of my personal opinion on the situation… especially since I’m basing it on past experience with one party. But, the barn needs that trainer or else they would have no one to give lessons. It’s not like the barn owner can give lessons herself-- I’ve seen her try before. And if they have no lessons, they have no income.
At the time I left, the barn owner was trying to eliminate boarding to the public and make boarding for lesson customers only. Her reasoning was that she was having so much trouble with the experienced “real” horse people complaining about the care. In her mind, we were the problem.
I believe Kim Smith is the 5th “head trainer” at the facility in 5 years. And it looks as if she has been able to accomplish what the barn owner has been desiring all along- ribbons at rated shows, sponsorships, etc. I’m not surprised the barn owner is clinging to her for dear life. As I said in an earlier post, priorities have always been out of whack there. Everything is about money and appearances.
I’ve talked to several friends and acquaintances who have directly spoken to the barn owner and/or current students this week. I keep hearing again and again that the barn owner doesn’t see what’s the big deal about this video and thinks it is being blown out of proportion. It seems she thinks her jealous enemies are acting “criminally” to try to ruin her and her fabulous trainer. That right there gives you a pretty good idea about her character.
The horses go with out water , shavings and no food in the pasture filled with mud minimal hay given and nonstop lessons 20+ a week drilling them with lead change after lead change!! Any normal person that’s been around horses can see so much wrong but Unfortunately the people that are there now are newbies and don’t quite understand what’s right and what’s wrong.
The ones that understand what’s right and wrong leave shortly after getting there and they’re threatened by the owner if they say anything that she will file a lawsuit against them.
Daniela is a bully and she doesn’t know what she’s doing when it comes to horse care or the best interest of any horse.
I do not believe Kim’s bio for one minute and I wish someone would contact the people she’s trying to say she trained with to let them know how she’s dragging their good names down with her.
Daniella has already lied about SmartPak and don’t believe CWD would sponsor a barn like this or that no one in the barn could afford even a used saddle from them. The rep keeps defending her which makes me wonder if the rumors are true that the rep is getting an apartment rent free from Daniela.
The rumors that she’s not allowed in Palm Beach I wish that was in writing somewhere, something apparently happened in a similar way. Very rough treatment of a horse or pony and was told to leave and don’t come back!!
[QUOTE=BlessYourHeart;8120904]
The horses go with out water , shavings and no food in the pasture filled with mud minimal hay given and nonstop lessons 20+ a week drilling them with lead change after lead change!! Any normal person that’s been around horses can see so much wrong but Unfortunately the people that are there now are newbies and don’t quite understand what’s right and what’s wrong.
The ones that understand what’s right and wrong leave shortly after getting there and they’re threatened by the owner if they say anything that she will file a lawsuit against them.
Daniela is a bully and she doesn’t know what she’s doing when it comes to horse care or the best interest of any horse.
I do not believe Kim’s bio for one minute and I wish someone would contact the people she’s trying to say she trained with to let them know how she’s dragging their good names down with her.
Daniella has already lied about SmartPak and don’t believe CWD would sponsor a barn like this or that no one in the barn could afford even a used saddle from them. The rep keeps defending her which makes me wonder if the rumors are true that the rep is getting an apartment rent free from Daniela.
The rumors that she’s not allowed in Palm Beach I wish that was in writing somewhere, something apparently happened in a similar way. Very rough treatment of a horse or pony and was told to leave and don’t come back!![/QUOTE]
How sad, what money can buy… and what it can’t.
Daniela should wise up [but apparently she knows everything?] and realize that what’s hurting her business is not the people who are bringing light to this horrible event, but the person who did it in the first place… and now her with her denial.
I have not been able to find any USEF results for the ‘trainer’… she says she rode most recently with Todd Minisink in Florida in the Jumpers and notes ‘Championships’… but I can not find anything like that.
Currently people are afraid of Daniela and Kim Smith. They are afraid to come forward or say anything more that they have witnessed.
Daniella has made it clear and has sent out texts to many people at the barn that as soon as she’s cleared of these charges she’s going to start filing lawsuits on anyone that comes forward.
Which kills me why would any of these people want to stay in such a negative place and think it’s normal.
She claims in person if you talk to her she was a “TRAINER” for these people at their private barns. Her bio says differently which is very odd to me.
[QUOTE=BlessYourHeart;8120918]
Currently people are afraid of Daniela and Kim Smith. They are afraid to come forward or say anything more that they have witnessed.
Daniella has made it clear and has sent out texts to many people at the barn that as soon as she’s cleared of these charges she’s going to start filing lawsuits on anyone that comes forward.
Which kills me why would any of these people want to stay in such a negative place and think it’s normal.[/QUOTE]
My guess is that if everyone gets together and speaks out together, Daniela won’t be able to afford a lawsuit. I don’t see how she could afford to, as it would take a small fortune just to clear her name.
Sounds like the two of them are made for one another.
A bizarre trainer with an anger management problem and a controlling owner with delusions of grandeur.
Why is it always that the weirdos decide to sue everyone for whistleblowing? Winning a lawsuit doesn’t bring back your reputation in the horse world.
It’s like a real life Black Beauty story over there, sounds horrific.
What I saw in the video does not, IMO, constitute “abuse” or “cruelty.” It does constitute seriously deficient training skill. I have no opinion on teaching skill regarding humans.
The BO reflects a common attitude in organizations today that when they are caught in an act of stupidity you “circle the wagons.” The idea that the “criminal” is the person with the camera is hardly unique. And it’s common elsewhere. When a major political candidate was recently asked about the vast amount of wealth that has flowed from questionable sources into an entity with her name on it she ignored questions of responsibility and said it was a “political attack.” A major auto maker ignored a clear problem for years and blamed everything but the source of the problem.
Contrast these actions to the recent decision of two ice cream makers to pull their ENTIRE product line to address an issue. It shows what can be done but so often is not.
For those interested in the reasoning process in decision making Google the “Dunning–Kruger effect.” It’s an interesting explanation of some rather spectacular failures of leadership or decision making.
G.
Whipping a horse in the face isn’t cruelty? Whipping a horse repeatedly when you aren’t getting a result, especially a packer pony as has been described here, is pretty abusive. Sorry, can’t agree.
In response to Texarkana asking “who on earth would continue patronizing a business with such horrible allegations against them” Halt Near X says:
[QUOTE=Halt Near X;8120513]
Well, because allegations are allegations and reporters are merely reporting that a story exists, not acting as judge/jury/executioner.[/QUOTE]
Yes, of course, legally, accusations are just that. That goes for the reporters reporting, but if my children were taking lessons there and/or my horse was boarded there, the 2nd & 3rd videos would have caused me to immediately get them all away from that place. The ignorance and lack of skill, ability, & patience shown by the “head trainer” was showcased beyond a doubt by that 3rd video.
Legally, they’re accusations, but the video shows what actually goes on in that barn. No way should people wait for any legal repercussions before getting their kids and horses out of there.
[QUOTE=BlessYourHeart;8120922]
She claims in person if you talk to her she was a “TRAINER” for these people at their private barns. Her bio says differently which is very odd to me.[/QUOTE]
You know, I’ve run across three people in real life now who have claimed they “trained” or “rode” for various big names. Turns out they mucked stalls and groomed.
Honestly, between those experiences, and being on coth a long time, I have an automatic distrust of pretty much any person who starts throwing around big names. 
