Another Cold USDF Finals!

[Velvet]

But that would work both ways. If they are held on the west coast, then those from the east have to deal with the Rockies, etc.

Okay, different tack. It’s been suggested only those with a ton of money play/participate. If that’s the case, there’s no way anyone can go to the nationals EVER, unless they have a ton of money and play in the big leagues. So, if this is truly that elitist, then why not have it in FL in the winter, when all the big guns are in town and there are some awesome facilities?

Velvetwhoisgivinguponasolution

[Cowgirl]

[QUOTE=Cowgirl;8929733]
Why is this show even an issue? The people who go from my state are only the wealthiest, not the best, competitors. This is a show for those who can afford a $6-7,000 horse show! It is not a competition of the best of the best.

A double stall will cost you about $800, plus the mat rental ($200) plus the shavings (small bags at $10 per bag–last year people bought 20 bags)($200), plus the show fees (600?) plus the hotel (at least $150 per night for 4-5 nights), plus the shipping ($3,000+) plus meals ($200 minimum) plus trainers costs and expenses (if you bring one and most did), plus gas or car rental (?) plus if you want to buy a table or seats for the dinner. Some people pay more (I heard that a few people flew their horses in for the competition and some flew in family members and/or themselves). Who can afford this? It was a crazy idea in the first place![/QUOTE]

And to add to my own post, the only way to make this competition a true “best of the best” head to head competition is to SUBSIDIZE the expenses for those who are not wealthy. By wealthy, I mean say make over $500k per year. Have USDF pay for the transportation and hotel for people. Otherwise, it is just a party for the elite and a very very few who struggled and sacrificed (or who were lucky with a Go Fund Me page), or are local, to get there.

[Velvet]

Okay, another thought. Let’s leave the location in KY for now. We know it’s an expensive hike across the country for a lot of people. Let me go back to having the championships go from July to June for qualifying. If the “season/year” ran from that date to June then you could have the championships in August or September and people would know if they qualified, probably well before June for most people–some would even qualify the fall before and have the entire winter, spring and summer to plan for the trip and money it will cost. Would that help at all?

[cnm161]

I’m in TX. I will not be hauling horses cross-country in August. That’s asking a lot for the poor guys.

If the qualifying season for the national finals is still contingent on Regional Championships, whole lotta nope me in from Region 9. There’s a reason we don’t schedule many shows in June/July/August. That reason is 100+F and high humidity.

[Velvet]

I think we can definitively say not everyone will ever be happy with the Finals.

[Mardi]

@Velvet;8929065

. Many west coast people go to FL for the winter to be a part of the winter CDI circuit.

Who are the many people from the West Coast who travel to compete in Wellington ? I can think of a few who have gone in the past two years: Steffen, Charlotte Jorst, Christine Traurig, Guenter Seidel and Jan Ebeling.

Who have I missed ?

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=Velvet;8929919]
I think we can definitively say not everyone will ever be happy with the Finals.[/QUOTE]

I think over time, people will get used to having the finals in Kentucky. It will become a nice tradition and something very special to look forward to.

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=Mardi;8930473]
Who are the many people from the West Coast who travel to compete in Wellington ? I can think of a few who have gone in the past two years: Steffen, Charlotte Jorst, Christine Traurig, Guenter Seidel and Jan Ebeling.

Who have I missed ?[/QUOTE]

Oh, maybe a few others, but the point is - most of them are not at all interested in the Dressage Finals - these are the elite riders who are pushing for international competition. Most are either very wealthy themselves, or have very wealthy sponsors that make this possible. They are a very small % of our riders.

I think there are a few solutions:
(1) rotate Finals West, Central, East. There are facilities (Omaha is not one of them) that will work. This was what USDF originally promised to membership when they created the competition.
(2) Get rid of finals and instead use the same judges for all Regionals, then declare the “national” champion based on scores at Regionals (or just skip a national champion and stick with the USDF HOTY program).
(3)Pay all travel costs (including flying horses) for those who are over a major pass or more then 15 hours away - only for the top 2 at each level in each region.
(4) Run two shows each year - East and West - with the same judges.

[atlatl]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8930790]
…
I think there are a few solutions:
(1) rotate Finals West, Central, East. There are facilities (Omaha is not one of them) that will work. This was what USDF originally promised to membership when they created the competition.
(2) Get rid of finals and instead use the same judges for all Regionals, then declare the “national” champion based on scores at Regionals (or just skip a national champion and stick with the USDF HOTY program).
(3)Pay all travel costs (including flying horses) for those who are over a major pass or more then 15 hours away - only for the top 2 at each level in each region.
(4) Run two shows each year - East and West - with the same judges.[/QUOTE]

I vote for 2 and then 4.

I believe that the method outlined in 2 is how breed inspections work.

Seriously, not just California, but other western states have extremely competitive horses and riders. Just take a look and compare year end awards for USDF, CDS, All-breeds to the winners in KY.

If you want to just pay your money and call it a “national” championship when the best horses aren’t there, go ahead.

[Velvet]

So, if the finals are moved to accommodate members, when will one be held in Alaska in November? I’d love to go watch the one that would have to be held in Hawaii. :lol:

[lorilu]

I certainly hope some of you with ideas come to the convention. This issue comes up every year. They searched for a “west” venue. Timing is difficult for a number of reasons. Please believe folks ARE working on this, but there appear to be no good solutions.
And about having the convention with the finals… who is going to spend time at the convention then compete? Who will leave their horses away from home for that length of time? MANY of the convention attendees compete. Remember year end awards are also given out at the Awards Gala.

[lorilu]

ANother complication is that many large venues are in use at this time of the year with other national level competitions.

[Cowgirl]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8930790]
Oh, maybe a few others, but the point is - most of them are not at all interested in the Dressage Finals - these are the elite riders who are pushing for international competition. Most are either very wealthy themselves, or have very wealthy sponsors that make this possible. They are a very small % of our riders.

I think there are a few solutions:
(1) rotate Finals West, Central, East. There are facilities (Omaha is not one of them) that will work. This was what USDF originally promised to membership when they created the competition.
(2) Get rid of finals and instead use the same judges for all Regionals, then declare the “national” champion based on scores at Regionals (or just skip a national champion and stick with the USDF HOTY program).
(3)Pay all travel costs (including flying horses) for those who are over a major pass or more then 15 hours away - only for the top 2 at each level in each region.
(4) Run two shows each year - East and West - with the same judges.[/QUOTE]

These are good ideas, but I have to ask again: WHY DO IT AT ALL? It just contributes to the whole elitist impression of dressage–to create a show that only a few people can participate in and that doesn’t really reflect the quality of riding in this country because the best can’t all participate. Why not just admit that this country is too large to run a finals like that and, instead, beef up the regionals and make them more fair (I love the suggestion of the same judges panel at all the regionals–I also think the facility standards need to be the same).

[Silverbridge]

[QUOTE=Cowgirl;8932005]
These are good ideas, but I have to ask again: WHY DO IT AT ALL? It just contributes to the whole elitist impression of dressage–to create a show that only a few people can participate in and that doesn’t really reflect the quality of riding in this country because the best can’t all participate. [/QUOTE]

It no more creates that impression than the Scottsdale Arabian show creates an impression of elitist Arabian owners or the Morgan Grand National creates an impression of elitists having Morgans or the AQHA Congress suggest elitists have quarter horses.

Nobody thinks that about any of those events. They’re just big championship horse shows held every year in the same place, and some people go and some don’t. That’s life with horses. That’s how shows are. Some horse people care about championships and budget for them and make it happen. Others have other goals, and don’t bother.

“Why even have it”?

Because it’s a helluva lot of fun. There are nearly 400 pairs there. In no dictionary does FOUR HUNDRED equal “a few”. A few is defined as three or four.

And the people who’re there showing this week are not all rich, by any stretch. That’s just a ridiculous impression to draw. And plenty of them competing over there are among the best horse and rider pairs in their regions. Others qualified and took the place of higher-scored riders who didn’t go. Now they have a chance to score higher at a bigger show. That’s horses. Some of the best from every region are wealthy. Others aren’t. That’s horses.

It’s a fun thing to go do, and to experience.

[MysticOakRanch]

[QUOTE=Velvet;8931424]
So, if the finals are moved to accommodate members, when will one be held in Alaska in November? I’d love to go watch the one that would have to be held in Hawaii.[/QUOTE]

Velvet, I try not to get personal, but you know that is a ridiculous statement. It is not about moving it to every State, it is about rotating it to improve access to ALL MEMBERS. KY is not accessible to all members. There are plenty of big facilities that can host such a show, but USDF has no interest in moving the show. AK members can more easily attend if it is in California or Arizona or even Oklahoma then when it is in KY.

I need a rolling eyes, pinned ears icon.

[Velvet]

[QUOTE=MysticOakRanch;8932230]
Velvet, I try not to get personal, but you know that is a ridiculous statement. It is not about moving it to every State, it is about rotating it to improve access to ALL MEMBERS. KY is not accessible to all members. There are plenty of big facilities that can host such a show, but USDF has no interest in moving the show. AK members can more easily attend if it is in California or Arizona or even Oklahoma then when it is in KY.

I need a rolling eyes, pinned ears icon.[/QUOTE]

It was reductio ad absurdum. I’m not sure how you missed that. Here, I’ll add :lol: – which I had considered adding, but figured everyone would get it even without the emoticon.

[NJRider]

I am curious, wouldn’t it make a difference if all the Championship classes were held indoors? I have never been to Finals nor to the KHP. What is the reason some CH classes are outside? Maybe have fewer open show classes or only hold these outdoors? Does the KHP not have more than one indoor show arena?

[Silverbridge]

KHP has only one indoor show arena, the Alltech which is fully enclosed with stadium seating. It has many additional arenas. There is another covered arena which in 2015 was designated for warm ups. I imagine if it really poured, that one could be used to hold classes in.

Don’t most large show venues have one indoor stadium with several outdoor rings? In the west they do. Scottsdale’s Westworld is this way. So is the LAEC in Burbank. So is the Del Mar fairgrounds.

Typically the FEI classes and the Freestyles are held inside at all these venues. Sometimes lower level champs classes are assigned indoors too. It just depends on numbers of entries, rotation of judges, sound systems, and a lot of other factors.

[mjhco]

Fort Worth has multiple indoor arenas
Tulsa has multiple indoor arenas (hosts Arabian Horse Nationals with 2000 horses)
Oklahoma City has multiple indoor arenas
Denver (National Western Complex) has multiple indoor arenas.
Lincoln Nebraska Facility has multiple indoor arenas.

[dressagegirl123]

Actually, I called the organizer to ask whether my championship (both FEI) classes would be indoors. She said that the musical rides had to be inside, and there are a lot of them. And that they try to rotate the other championships so lots of people get a chance to ride inside. I think the GP would always be inside (she didn’t say that). There are so many championship classes, that they can’t all be inside.
One of my classes would be tomorrow morning, starting at 8. Outside, and it will be 30 degrees.