Thank you Training Cupid! I think your advice is sound. I will try starting by getting him to lead when I go with my friend. I think trailering him off property sounds interesting!
You’re right, GraceLike Rain. When I think back on the times he had an explosive spook, he was “jiggy with head high” before hand. I tend to go out with an idea that the ride will go “this way” and then it doesn’t and I"m surprised! He is a good guy. I am going to have the Vet out. I have been trying to switch up his diet as well to deal with the fecal water syndrome. I have a grazing muzzle and got it out today so he can have turn out (and not eat grass because of his tummy issues). Thank you for listening!
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Identifying the slow creep from totally calm to exploding can be so easy to miss until you start learning how to listen. I had a mare where I felt so similarly. I watched a ton of Warwick Schiller and found that I could read her eyes, her ears, her muscle tension, etc. and catch her at the first or second “rabbit” to help her deescalate before things went awry. A lot of well intentioned old school types can unintentionally put way more intention on a horse “he’s trying to get out of work” “he needs to learn a lesson” “make him work hard enough he won’t try that again”. Horses really do want to be relaxed, happy, and connected. When it isn’t happening I don’t think that slowing down to explore pain and stress triggers will ever harm a partnership.
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Don’t you love Warwick? When I first got this horse, it was Jan. 2020, right b before the pandemic became a pandemic. My horse became my refuge from what was going on in the world. He has humbled me so much. I come from a very disciplined horsemanship background-dressage, 3-day eventing, etc. Now I’m “older” (heading towards 70) and just wanted a calm and easy going trail horse. I thought a quarter horse and a western saddle were going to be my “smooth ride” into retirement-no more “outside rein, inside leg”. Well, Buddy the quarter horse wasn’t a push button horse, and he wasn’t retired! I have little to no idea what previous owners did with this horse. And as we horse owners know, there’s really no guarantee that the horse you rode before purchase is going to be the same when you get him home. He was a handful from the get-go out on the trail, and so hyper I wondered if he had been “spurred” a lot to have this walk-jog he would always do. I have to look back at all our little successes. Now he walks “normal” (unless upset). Now he moves easily off my leg instead of jumping out from under me. I have subscribed to Warwick in the past and followed his ground work exercises with this horse and it has helped a lot. I just felt so dejected and rejected by my horse when he did the surprise big spook the other day. I thought we were over that, but as you say-there were clues earlier in the ride. If I’m honest, I can see the pieces now, but thinking, “we’re over that” and I could push him on despite his tension. I’m so lucky I didn’t fall off this time. I caught the saddle horn and my balance in time. And another plus-in the past, he’d buck me off once I lost my balance. He didn’t this time. He stopped, head up, eyes wild, ears back, obviously scared, but he stopped and I righted myself. I didn’t fall, he didn’t buck. I guess I have to take that as a win. I’m not giving up on him, despite people telling me to sell him. Maybe I need to get back to Warwick and review some more videos! It’s been like a Zen class, owning “Buddy.” If I could figure out how to do a heart emoji, I’d place one here!
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When you start to feel him tense up, long before you lose him, get back to calm. If he’s calm in the arena, but starts to tense up 50 feet or 5 minutes outside of it, get back to 40 feet. When he’s regained calm, ease back out. But over time, and probably not as long as you think, I think you’ll be able to extend the calm. Get safely back there before he panics. Once you’ve lost the connection and he starts to panic, nothing good will happen.
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When I got my green QH/Arab I was determined to make him a solo trail horse. I hand walked him on the trail for HOURS. Like pack snacks and walk him until he’s bored. He spooked and spun a lot at first, but with me on the ground he eventually learned he couldn’t get away from the scary thing and he eventually stopped spooking. Then I started riding out but would hop off and lead him if he started getting antsy, get back on once he chilled. After a few months of this, he became reliable, and within a couple of years he became rock solid.
My horse is now late 20s and very rarely spooks at anything, but pigs send him through the roof every time. If I’m going by a property with pigs, I just hop off and walk him past it. This way he trust that I will take control in truly scary situations. He is much more relaxed being led past the pig farm than being ridden past.
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Lots of great suggestions here. If you do want to try a calming supplement, first assess his magnesium intake. If it’s even just “normal,” try a mag based supp first. But if there’s no deficiency, it won’t do anything.
Non mag based supplements that I like are SynChill - recommended above - and SamrtTranquility. The SynChill just helps to take the edge off. I only use it pre-ride, not daily, one scoop. And you can use two scoops daily if you want. The ST is valerian based, so not legal. But I use it on my gelding in the winter when his radar to outside noises is super sensitive. Works really great. As my vet says, there’s a reason why valerian is not legal for showing. 
The more I read the more I think ulcers. I can’t remember, OP, if you said ulcers have been addressed? I’d buy this fella a few tubes of Ulcergard or start him on Nexium and see if that helps alleviate some of this. I never realized how reactive they can become due to gastric ulcers until my guy had them. He was a completely different horse. Spooking, spinning, bolting, even some bucking (highly out of character) and once or twice getting so upset he almost reared (which he’s never done in his 15 years of life). He’d literally shake from anxiety and fear over the slightest things. It was awful to see him like that.
I started treating him with full tubes of Ulcergard (1 per day in the AM before his breakfast) and within two days he was already showing improvement. I did a full month of treatment (which was expensive, but I was determined to rid him of the ulcers). He’s back to being a steady, chill dude now. So much happier.
I’d seriously look into it if you haven’t already.
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There is SO much about teeth that can cause pain and tension in their bodies. Just like us. If their angles are off, the incissors aren’t level, if they sharp points or hooks or ramps. Or God forbid you’ve got a bad tooth. They can have TMJ pain or other head pain for a multitude of reasons. Maybe the bridle or buckles are sitting on those bones. Is the crown pinching their ears?
The universe decided I should learn a lot about teeth 25 yrs ago when I bought a mare who I thought was just grumpy because her shoulders and nose were rubbed down hard from an ill fitting blanket and halter. I know I’d be bitchy too. But as time went on she didn’t improve. I went from vet to vet trying to figure it out and was mostly dismissed. I was told, “she’s a mare, probably just arthritis”, etc. Finally had what was easily my third vet look at her and she asked if a GOOD dentist had been in her mouth.
I found Dr. Tom Allen and he gets in there with a speculum and headlamp and don’t ya know. We had a fractured molar that had been in there so long it had calcified under the gum line. Wasn’t easy coming out but do you know once that tooth was out she was a completely different horse. It was really shocking how sweet she became!
Do you know that your vet uses a speculum and head lamp and has had advanced training in dentistry? Another story real quick. I bought a mustang coming up on two years ago and the seller provided a VET report that he’d had dentistry and they found NO issues. I have this horse home and in a month he’s holding his mouth open and I haul him to my vet dental specialist. All they do are teeth. We open that mouth and right away can see a BIG problem . A molar turned sideways with food packed and once cleaned out smelled awful. Seller said a speculum was used. How could that be missed? I don’t know. What I do know is a really good dentist is important.
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This isn’t out of nowhere. He’s trying to communicate to you that something is upsetting him (could be physical/environmental/metal), and continuing to upset him for 30-40 mins…that’s your warning. Im not shocked that results in a big spook.
Look up Warwick Schiller Trigger Stacking (sorry I stopped reading if anyone else hit this).
It look like others are chiming in on figuring out what the root cause the behavior may be stemming from; all good things to consider.
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Here’s a question @Mustang_Levi - has your horse had a good dentist in his mouth since you’ve had him? Speculum, head lamp and full exam?
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Some really good suggestions here.
OP
-
You may want to consider saddle fit.
An ill fitting saddle can make the most sweet tempered non reactive horse go into a violent bucking fit. -
There are times when a horse has a condition that has more than one cause, say Ulcers.
Well, ulcers can be caused by poor diet, stressors like too much stall time, not enough turn out, or turn out with horses he doesn’t get along with, pain in hocks, stifles, back or neck from improper, incorrect trimming shoeing.
A horse may have kissing spines, but also have NPA which exacerbates the problem and creates other problems as well .
IMO
Have vet out to take blood work to identify if your horse has any mineral and vitamin imbalances magnesium, selenium, vit E for example.
Have the vet scope for both types of Ulcers. Giving the horse the wrong ulcer meds will make the ulcer worse .
Have the vet take radiographs of the all hooves .
And possibly the spine , hocks and stifles. And neck.
At 12 years your horse might have some arthritic changes, or scar tissue from old injuries that you don’t know about.
Lastly. Spend some time observing your horse.
For instance
When you are grooming his back and girth area. Does he pin his ears back, grind his teeth , kick out, or swish his tail?
If not, does he react when you put his saddle on and tighten the girth?
Does he react when you mount?
Does he start out quietly when asked to walk or is he immediately tense, jiggy, doesn’t want to walk?
Really take your time with this. If your horse starts out tense , he isn’t suddenly isn’t going to calm down.
Hope this helps
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Really good question. How early does it start?
Hi
I would absolutely get Vitamin E/ Selenium levels checked. If one or both are low, it is at least part of the issue.
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deleted.
Nope. Are you?
Have been reading along, and I also wondered why you’ve responded as though you’re the OP?
It did seem weird.
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I’ve used both SynChill and Gentle from Platinum Performance. The Gentle has had amazing results with my internalizing worrier.
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For those that have mentioned horses having tension in their jaws, not sure if you’ve been following the thread an the Posture Prep, but I use it gently on my horses’ cheek muscles and they LOVE it.
As someone who has a lot of tension in my jaw, I can understand why it feels good.
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