Selection trials - I don’t think we should have them for any of the disciplines. Too hard on the horses.
And, just as I thought. LOTS of complaining, but no indications as to what could be done better/different.
I remember the Bert days, both his complete rule and as things started to change. I was on his last European tour in 1978. There were still a couple of team horses, Frenchie being one, that he had autonomy over, but all the rest of the horses/riders that went were doing there own thing. Bert was great at pairing horses and riders, but several riders have told me that he wasn’t great at giving suggestions on where to make better cuts in jumpoffs, or how to ride a particular line. That was not his strength. So even Bert had his shortcomings.
We have had some good performances in the last two Olympiads, but have never regained our consistency of the 80s. Maybe we never will. But no one person is going to change those results. It will take a sea change of how we approach our horse sports in this country. And how we handle ridiculous rules set by the FEI like the hypersensitivity debacle.
[QUOTE=Pat Ness;6482384]
Selection trials - I don’t think we should have them for any of the disciplines. Too hard on the horses.[/QUOTE]
And how would you select a team?
They used to observe competitions throughout the year, specified GPs that the riders would be going to anyway. That way, the horses weren’t overjumped in a short period, and the selectors could watch how a horse was progressing, either towards a peak, or on the downhill slide.
One reason they went to the trials as they are is that there were complaints that our horses never jumped as many rounds in a week as they would need to at the Olympics, and so weren’t fit enough. Now the complaint is that they jumped too much. Do you see the difficulties here???
I doubt we will, there are just too many deep countries in this sport. The fact that Germany and France didn’t make it to day 2 and Belgium was seeded #1 … and didn’t make it to day 2 tells you that many country are in the hunt and it can just come down to who was “on” this week, even if you do have your dream team on the field.
I guess the only thing I might have done differently is have Beezie ride Simon. He’s a been there, done that horse, and we seemed to be shy of those.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6482417]
I guess the only thing I might have done differently is have Beezie ride Simon. He’s a been there, done that horse, and we seemed to be shy of those.[/QUOTE]
I could be wrong… but I’m about 90% sure that’s who she crashed during the Olympic trials… 
She may have crashed in January, but by Spruce they were a much, much better combination.
[QUOTE=lauriep;6482398]
And how would you select a team?
They used to observe competitions throughout the year, specified GPs that the riders would be going to anyway. That way, the horses weren’t overjumped in a short period, and the selectors could watch how a horse was progressing, either towards a peak, or on the downhill slide.
One reason they went to the trials as they are is that there were complaints that our horses never jumped as many rounds in a week as they would need to at the Olympics, and so weren’t fit enough. Now the complaint is that they jumped too much. Do you see the difficulties here???[/QUOTE]
Laurie - I think the"old way" of selecting that you describe sounds better. I was still in the UK when that was being done, but the way you describe it - a year long process - is preferable, IMHO, than what transpired this spring. The USA horses are fit - no question about that - but they did not have the edge of brilliance that I have seen previously, e.g. Antares at Devon.
The GB horses had a spring and energy about them from the moment they entered the ring. Does anyone know what their selection schedule looked like, and run-up to Greenwich?
[QUOTE=DMK;6482405]
I doubt we will, there are just too many deep countries in this sport. The fact that Germany and France didn’t make it to day 2 and Belgium was seeded #1 … and didn’t make it to day 2 tells you that many country are in the hunt and it can just come down to who was “on” this week, even if you do have your dream team on the field.[/QUOTE]
And I can’t bring myself to feel bad about that, or view it as a negative thing. Reading these threads (especially the eventing focused ones), you’d think that many American are simply of the view that US riders should be standing on the podium every single time. And that any thing less is a travesty. I have no problem with striving for excellence, but I think its rather boring if a few countries always win it all. Having MANY countries with depth is a good thing, it is good for the sport and it makes for more exciting competition. It also puts pressure on our riders to get better!
(note - I’m not suggesting DMK disagrees with the above, her quote was just the jumping off point for my comments!)
[QUOTE=DMK;6482152]
It’s worth remembering that if Ridland = Better Days, then we should win the gold and then at least bronze in the next three consecutive Olympics. Everyone here who thinks that is going to happen, raise your hand. I’d say GM has done just fine by this country in the medals department.
I’m looking forward to what Ridland is going to do, but whether Laurie is taking this personally or not, I’m not sure where she’s wrong…
But if we were backseat driving, I always would have put Laura and Cedric on the team, probably with Reed as an alternate. I think one olympic veteran horse/rider pair would have been a good thing, but there’s no arguing that Cedric didn’t put his best jump forward in the trials, and along with Margie didn’t make the trip to Spruce Meadows. Of course he’s promptly back to form now that he’s back in Europe, so who knows what he might have done in London? It wasn’t a far drive from their home base, for sure![/QUOTE]
I personally don’t think Cedric would’ve been a good choice. He’s proven that he’s not the consistent horse that he was back in 2008. He’s been struggling on American soil AND in Europe for the last year or so. Laura was very lucky that he peaked in Hong Kong. Look at his performance at the WEG in 2010. No one knows if different horses would’ve done better and there’s no way we’re going to know.
[QUOTE=Pat Ness;6482384]
Selection trials - I don’t think we should have them for any of the disciplines. Too hard on the horses.[/QUOTE]
I totally agree 100%!!! It’s proven time and time again that the selection trails are too hard on the horses (with the exception of Athens and Hong Kong).
I think that we should use the computer listings to choose the team. We used it for the Pan Ams last year, saved our horses and got the Team Gold, Individual Gold and Silver! We didn’t have to jump the pants off the horses and they we’re fresh for the games.
Do any of the European counties do selection trials and observation events? Or are we the only ones who over jump our horses for pick the team?
[QUOTE=Secret Dove;6482498]
I totally agree 100%!!! It’s proven time and time again that the selection trails are too hard on the horses (with the exception of Athens and Hong Kong).
I think that we should use the computer listings to choose the team. We used it for the Pan Ams last year, saved our horses and got the Team Gold, Individual Gold and Silver! We didn’t have to jump the pants off the horses and they we’re fresh for the games.
Do any of the European counties do selection trials and observation events? Or are we the only ones who over jump our horses for pick the team?[/QUOTE]
I am also curious to know how the European countries go about selecting their teams.
Can’t speak for the British but the Dutch team seems to be entirely at Rob Ehrens’ discretion. He rotated virtually all his contenders through the early Super League events, and picked the ones he thought were peaking at the right time with the soundest horses. His final choices were made known on virtually the last day for Olympic nomination. He would have had a horribly tough choice between Jur Vrieling and Jeroen Dubbeldam but the latter wisely withdrew his sensitive mare, thinking it was too early in her career for the challenge. And you gotta love the Brits after having sold so many good horses in December 2011. Having cake, eating same.
[QUOTE=Rel6;6481974]
I hate speculation like that, because the bottom line is you cannot know. If Margie had made the team she could have fallen off at the first water jump. And then I’m sure there would be someone out there saying, “well it is unlikely that it would have happened to Reed/Mario/Charlie/Laura.”
I mean if Beezie had not of made the team, its not like anyone would have sat there and said “oh good thing, she clearly would have gotten disqualified on the first course.” You just can’t know.
Besides while Reed definitely could have had a stronger showing, she was the drop score in both rounds. Meaning our sixth place finish was on the score of two Olympic veterans and a horse and rider pairing who have been considered somewhat unbeatable in the past few months. So in order for Margie to have made a contribution, she would have had to not just have fewer penalties than Reed, but fewer than Beezie and McLain and Rich. And I’m not sure if that would have happened. Just my .02, for however little its worth :)[/QUOTE]
This.
Also, the day most of these negative posters ride at the Olympics or coach an Olympic team is the day you can critique so hard. I’m 99.9% positive it is not as easy as it looks.
I haven’t seen as much of the coverage as I wanted (clueless cable company who insisted they didn’t have NBC sports channel). However, this is the team I would picked, if it had been mine to choose. During the rounds I saw, the commentator mentioned the Europeans not knowing this team because we hadn’t had them doing the Super League (I know we fell off the list). At the time, I thought it was a disadvantage for our riders and worried that hasn’t given them all the tools for the job. George Morris has been quoted in COTH for years emphasizing the need for us to compete and do well in Super League (before we weren’t on the list). And he’s complained about some top riders not supporting this goal. And economics keeps lots of riders home taking students to to shows. I’m proud of our 2012 team and look forward to cheering Rich and McLain on in the individual (and sad that Beezie and Reed aren’t in that hunt this time)
Of course nobody knows, that’s why it’s backseat driving. 
But even with a up and down year last year he still finished ranked #28 (Flexible finished 25th) so his bad years aren’t bad. But the beauty of that 20-20 hindsight is he seems to have jumped back (snort) into good form since Aachen.
But I will freely admit if somebody made me She Who Is In Charge of Everything, Cedric would be on the team just because I like him. I wouldn’t give you peons a reason. 
We didn’t until Debbie Dolan sued the USET because she had a better record and was left off the team, even though leaving her off the team was the right decision. Back then we had a lot of depth and experience and Debbie was not a seasoned veteran. But she sued nonethe less.
So we went to a 100% objective selection. It was a disaster. Now the pendulum has swung back to discretion based on results in trials which show everyone head to head.
If you do not remember the “made the team by virtue of their rankings with no subjectivity involved at all” should not wish for that day again. IIRC, McLain had trouble with a water jump and was eliminated in one class. So he did not make the team, even though he and Sapphire were our best pair.
We didn’t get an invitation to Aachen this year because of being dropped from the Super League. Did any of our riders show there, because most of the Olympic competition did? All of the Europeans continued to show right up to the day the Olympics started, IIRC.
I remember those days and maybe worse for the people but better for the horses. I too would like to know how most of the other nations select their teams.
Edited to add: I believe a real competition is better for both the horse and rider - probably more the rider which makes it better for the horse.
Maybe he had comments on how good our turnout was with conservative attire, no flyaway hair, clean boots, and wonderfully thin riders?
