Any news from the USEF Convention?

[freestyle2music]

Yes

[QUOTE=canyonoak;2933526]
I’m bumping this up hoping more people read the interview.[/QUOTE]

OK I’ll join, but I like the idea that (and I stated that already weeks ago) that they have created an escape route. An escape route witch is working very well over here. And imho every system (good or bad) needs an escape route.

Meaning when you think that you and your horse are good enough to start at FEI-level (without having the necessary scores/points) you can ask two O- or I-judges to give the combination the green light.

Theo

[canyonoak]

<<Meaning when you think that you and your horse are good enough to start at FEI-level (without having the necessary scores/points) you can ask two O- or I-judges to give the combination the green light.>>

HOW does one do this?

I know La Withages has gone around and ‘watched’ people and given them qualifying scores for major international competitions…but how does it work just to move up?

IS this done at a show, after regular compeition?

[claire]

@rebecca yount;2932359

I have been communicating with someone who is there and she felt that it was best to refrain from posting a lot of specific information, because everyone’s feelings were pretty raw right then and she thought best not to further inflame the situation.
I was taking her word for it. She is there as a representative from CDS and has been lobbying all week.
Voting has apparently not taken place yet. There is some talk of adding another year to the proposed effective date.

It would be helpful to hear other viewpoints (besides JBF’s) on what information was presented:

-If the open-ended rule proposal was/was not passed

-Was there scoring data presented showing the % of scores in the 50%/40%/30% ranges demonstrating the stated problem?

-Was there discussion of $$$ ways and means of implementing and administrating this sort of score qualification program?

[Janet]

If you look at the rule change proposal, it was modified on Jan 7.

It now reads

DR119 Participation in Dressage Competitions. [Chapter DR. Dressage Division] Add new and renumber remaining:

3. Effective December 1, 2010 (was “2009”), riders competing in Dressage Competitions at Third Level and above must be eligible according to qualification criteria recommended I[/I] by the Federation Dressage Committee (the rest is new) and approved by the USEF Board of Directors.

Is has been “disapproved” by 5 other committees- AFTER the revision.

The BoD has not yet voted on it, as far as I can tell.

[claire]

@Janet;2933707

Is has been “disapproved” by 5 other committees- AFTER the revision.

The BoD has not yet voted on it, as far as I can tell.

Thanks Janet! If you don’t mind, could you explain “disapproved by 5 other committees”? Which committees? The procedure?

[freestyle2music]

[QUOTE=canyonoak;2933611]
<<Meaning when you think that you and your horse are good enough to start at FEI-level (without having the necessary scores/points) you can ask two O- or I-judges to give the combination the green light.>>

HOW does one do this?

I know La Withages has gone around and ‘watched’ people and given them qualifying scores for major international competitions…but how does it work just to move up?

IS this done at a show, after regular compeition?[/QUOTE]

Yes, you can ask the show-organisers, and these tests are taken after a regular competition. The same system is also effective in Germany.

A very good example was when my sister passed the ride on our GP-horse to her daughter Wendy. Wendy didn’t have the necessary points to start at these levels. (because she never competed in dressage, and was mostly jumping). One Olympic judge and an International judge (now Olympic) did test her twice and she was allowed to start at PSG-level.

[Janet]

@claire;2933729

Thanks Janet! If you don’t mind, could you explain “disapproved by 5 other committees”? Which committees? The procedure?

If you read the proposal
http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/275-07.pdf
edited to fix link
You will know as much as I do.

It was disapproved by

Arabian 1: Disapproved-12/18/2007, 2: Disapproved-1/11/2008
Morgan 2: Disapproved-1/10/2008
Friesian 2: Disapproved-1/10/2008
Andalusian/Lusitano 2: Disapproved-1/11/2008
Connemara/Welsh 2: Disapproved-1/11/2008

with the following comments

Friesian: Committee feels that qualification criteria first needs to be established before submitting as a proposed rule change.

Andalusian/Lusitano: Would qualifying criteria established first.

No action yet reported by the BoD

[canyonoak]

<<Yes, you can ask the show-organisers, and these tests are taken after a regular competition. The same system is also effective in Germany.

A very good example was when my sister passed the ride on our GP-horse to her daughter Wendy. Wendy didn’t have the necessary points to start at these levels. (because she never competed in dressage, and was mostly jumping). One Olympic judge and an International judge (now Olympic) did test her twice and she was allowed to start at PSG-level.>>

HA HA, I can just see trying to find a typical show in the US where there just happen to be an O and I judge willing to hang around (and miss their plane) AFTER a show in order to watch and score a rider.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

And as for the proposal-- thank heavens the committees so far are all in the 3% of us who are still not in favor of or ‘understanding’ a proposal that gives an unelected committe the right to decide criteria.

not really laughing,

[Janet]

How did five committeees ‘disapprove’ the proposal 275-07 ?

I do not understand the question. Every committee gets a chance to vote on every rule change proposal.

Then the BOD votes on the rule change proposal.

The BoD is not bound by any of the committee votes, but takes them into consideration.

In particular, (as I understand it) any rule change proposal which has a “disapproved” vote gets reviewed individually by BoD, while proposals which only have “approved” votes may get lumped together and voted on as a group.

[canyonoak]

http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/519-07.pdf

takes me to the “dual agent/horse sales” proposal which 9is getting lots of play on the hunter/jumper forum…

[freestyle2music]

@canyonoak;2933762

HA HA, I can just see trying to find a typical show in the US where there just happen to be an O and I judge willing to hang around (and miss their plane) AFTER a show in order to watch and score a rider.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

Maybe our judges do that because they love the sport. :yes:

They must love the sport because they don’t get any money to judge !. And mostly they also combine this with teaching/lecturing the lower level judges.

Theo

[Janet]

@canyonoak;2933775

http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/519-07.pdf

takes me to the “dual agent/horse sales” proposal which 9is getting lots of play on the hunter/jumper forum…

Sorry, that is another one I am tracking and I put in the wrong link.

Should be
http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/275-07.pdf

[Janet]

@freestyle2music;2933782

They must love the sport because they don’t get any money to judge !.

I can assure you that, in the US, judges DO get paid.

[slc2]

question for theo

“you can ask two O- or I-judges to give the combination the green light”

what does this service cost? how is the permission recorded? does the two o or one i judge send in something, or does the rider…?

[claire]

@Janet;2933771

Every committee gets a chance to vote on every rule change proposal.

Then the BOD votes on the rule change proposal.

The BoD is not bound by any of the committee votes, but takes them into consideration.

In particular, (as I understand it) any rule change proposal which has a “disapproved” vote gets reviewed individually by BoD, while proposals which only have “approved” votes may get lumped together and voted on as a group.

http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/275-07.pdf

Thanks Janet!

That is at least hopeful:
that with 5 disapprovals Rule Change #275-07 will be reviewed individually by the BoD.

[Dressage4Fun]

You know, it seems that we have spoken, were heard, and ignored. Sad that our orginization that supports and promotes the sport that we love chooses to ignore us. We do not elect them, we do pay them in a round about way, we are stuck with the decisions that they make. Do we have any recourse? In a way we do, but we sacrifice what we love to do, we can not show, not pay our dues, not support them, who do we hurt? Ourselves. They do not care. As a BOD they have proven that! If we need a system, why not present a few options and let the members vote? OH I FORGOT, they would forget to listen. We have a few options, we can not rejoin, thereby keeping or money and doing more clinics, lessons, ect… We can rejoin and ride our as# off and work up thier system and make it work. We renew our membership,stay home do more clinics and lessons, and send more letters and keep the word out that the BOD has no cares of the members voice! All viable options. Which will YOU choose?

[freestyle2music]

[QUOTE=slc2;2933788]
“you can ask two O- or I-judges to give the combination the green light”

what does this service cost? how is the permission recorded? does the two o or one i judge send in something, or does the rider…?[/QUOTE]

This cost nothing, like it cost nothing if you ask the judge to make a videotape of your ride, with extensive (vocal) comments on the tape. These kind of tapes (i have many of them, and have posted some of these footage on my website) are later used for educational purposes.

Next to this; almost all judges stay for some hours after the competition, and are open for discussions and comments to the trainers and riders.

To answer you last question these scoresheets are delivered to the show organisers (and the rider get’s a copy). The show-organisers send these scoresheet to the KNHS.

Also I want to point out that the KNHS has a good database for keeping track of the scores and scoring-points of every horse and rider. However the descission for competing at a certain level is up to the riders, this is because of the fact that when a rider get’s his score to move up to the next level on saturday, he is allowed to do this on the next (sun)day. But starting to high or to low will be penalised. So you don’t have to wait for the “green light” of the KNHS.

Please take in consideration that the communication and descission lines are much shorter and easier over here and the judges are part of the TEAM.

Scores and even rides are published life on the internet. (at this moment I am watching the Friesian Stallion Keuring)

Could this be a start for the US ?

[slc2]

If we have to have something because Europe has it, and we only adopt one part of it, we are not copying Europe very well :lol:.

If a person could get an evaluation from an I or O judge, that would still be a problem in the USA. Most of the shows in the USA do not have judges of those levels.

I think it would be good to have something like that though. IT would help people who have less money if they did not have to go to so many shows.

[ride-n-tx]

Do they really know what they are doing?

So, some people want to make things better for us. However we don’t really know what they are planning. No one in charge wants to tell us and they won’t listen to our opinions. Wow, i feel like i am in high school again! :no:

I feel that this proposal is not very well thought out. No one knows what the criteria will be, and opposition/constructive criticism is not being taken into account at all. To me it feels like this whole thing is being very rushed. What is the big hurry!!!

Man, i love this sport, but this whole charade does not give me much confidence in the system or the people running it. All i can think about is the additional $$$$$ this is going to cost us.

[Sonesta]

Theo, this is just another area where Europe and the U.S. differ greatly. Here ALL judges are PAID to judge. And the country is ENORMOUS. The vast majority of shows do NOT have Olympic or International judges. And the judges have planes to catch. I assure you they do NOT hang around after the show to chat, nor have I EVER heard of a judge here being willing to videotape a ride with audible critique. Just not done.