Know of a couple here, quiet as can be for grooming, feeding, hand walking at home. All three are huge balls of nerves, no confidence when out at shows. Maybe a handling/owner thing but does nothing for their get rich with this breed scheme. Easy on the eyes but wouldn’t have one of theirs if offered free.
[QUOTE=Ladylexie;8585758]
They DID live in Florida and I feel like somebody somewhere would have mentioned muzzles. I feel like this muzzle stuff is nuts. Morgans and other draft breeds are also very easy keepers as well most people probably just wouldn’t turn out in a lush green paddock so that is actually kind of a non issue, but, thanks anyway…[/QUOTE]
“Easy Keeper”? Try “Ticking Time Bomb”. Saddlebreds are often “easy keepers”… after having managed IR horses, I would be very particular choosing a boarding situation that was experienced with it. It’s not just a matter of putting a grazing muzzle on every day or easing them into lush spring grass. There are annual blood tests, supplements, pasture management, dry lot management, hay testing, grass testing… and that’s just the preventative measures.
[QUOTE=SmartAlex;8585960]
“Easy Keeper”? Try “Ticking Time Bomb”. Saddlebreds are often “easy keepers”… after having managed IR horses, I would be very particular choosing a boarding situation that was experienced with it. It’s not just a matter of putting a grazing muzzle on every day or easing them into lush spring grass. There are annual blood tests, supplements, pasture management, dry lot management, hay testing, grass testing… and that’s just the preventative measures.[/QUOTE]
I have had many Saddlebreds and we never had to do this? I guess I got lucky or something and the many other horses at the barns I boarded at and kept in traiing didn’t have these issues either. How common would you say this is. Are you saying that this is a Saddlebred or Gypsy Vanner issue?
It seems to run in families and worsens with age. Of the last dozen or more Saddlebreds we’ve had, 40% have had it. Of those, about half were manageable and half foundered and were not manageable. Several of the head count were sold as youngsters and I don’t know how they turned out so I’m only counting the ones I know had it. If I buy another Saddlebred, I know what to look for, and how to manage it but I will request a blood test for sure.
[QUOTE=SmartAlex;8586005]
It seems to run in families and worsens with age. Of the last dozen or more Saddlebreds we’ve had, 40% have had it. Of those, about half were manageable and half foundered and were not manageable. Several of the head count were sold as youngsters and I don’t know how they turned out so I’m only counting the ones I know had it. If I buy another Saddlebred, I know what to look for, and how to manage it but I will request a blood test for sure.[/QUOTE
Good idea! I guess though this doesn’t relate to Gypsy Vanners though does it? This is different than an easy keeper I’m thinking is that correct?
F
[QUOTE=Ladylexie;8586025]
Good idea! I guess though this doesn’t relate to Gypsy Vanners though does it? This is different than an easy keeper I’m thinking is that correct?
F[/QUOTE]
I wouldn’t bet on it. “Ponies and horse breeds that evolved in relatively harsh environments with only sparse grass, the proverbial “easy keeper,” tend to be more prone to EMS and insulin resistance. This possibly occurred as a survival mechanism, where the animal would lay down fat during plentiful times, such as the spring and summer, and maintain their weight more easily during the harsh, cold seasons. EMS appears to be more common in Welsh, Dartmoor, and Shetland ponies, Morgans, Paso Finos, Saddlebreds, Spanish Mustangs, and Warmbloods; and may also been seen in Quarter Horses and Tennessee Walking Horses, although is rarer in breeds such as the Thoroughbred and Standardbred. Most horses are 5–15 years of age when they develop laminitis that can be attributed to EMS.[1]” Source
And on Draft Breeds:
Certain draft horses are prone to polysaccharide storage myopathy (PSSM) and equine metabolic syndrome (EMS), so supplementation with energy-dense feedstuffs should be employed only when necessary to maintain body weight and fuel work.
Obesity is a concern among draft horses. Overconsumption of high-quality forage or concentrates can lead to laminitis. Veterinarians have documented more devastating outcomes when draft horses are diagnosed with laminitis when compared to light breeds.
This is why I prefer to live in the desert and not where it rains all the time with lush green grass. As much as I love to look at green grassy pastures, alarm bells go off in my head with regard to laminitis, founder, metabolic issues. Two of my three horses are breeds that would be predisposed to such issues. I have their hay tested (actually buy hay from the grower that has already been tested for low NSC), manage them mostly on dry lots, with limited grazing in the summer time.
It is easy to buy into the fantasy…long mane flowing in the wind, shiny horses grazing on knee-deep grass as you lie across their back in a white linen dress and let your hair flow over their bums and watch the clouds float by… that’s what marketing videos are for - to get you to want that. Just be sure that if you live in that type of climate and you’re looking for that type of horse that you know what you are getting yourself into and that you manage it very carefully. Read Katy Watts’s website about best feeding practices for horses prone to metabolic issues. It isn’t very romantic.
Gypsy Vanner = Coloured Cob, right? I rode a few coloured cobs at the local livery stable when we were in Ireland last month. They - at least the ones I saw- had nice temperaments and seemed to be useful horses. They gave hack rides, lessons and foxhunted. Seemed like nice “husband” type horses. Many people had them in their backyards where we were.
We have a 4YO Gypsy Vanner at our barn. Owned by an amateur who is not a very supple, fine rider, does not ride often, and is slightly overweight.
She admittedly purchased him because of the “majikal butterfly farting” factor. :lol:
He came over a year ago completely untrained and mishandled, after being at her house for a time, and previously from the breeder where he had infrequent handling at best.
The owner had gotten injured by him while grooming so she brought him to the barn for ground work and ridden training.
Its been about 14 months now. He has been ridden regularly by my trainer, groundworked to precision, trained for patience and obedience while being groomed, loaded in a trailer and carted to venues all over the place, he even works cattle!
He is very forward, and very sensitive to the aids, but one of the bravest horses in the barn. When all the other horses spook out on trail, he stands steadfastly as if to say, “bring it on”!, even with low flying Customs and Border Patrol helicopters.
His owner is taking more regular lessons on him and is learning how to tone down her aides and become more quiet and balanced in the saddle. It will take time but she is very happy with her horse and of course with our trainer.
[QUOTE=SmartAlex;8586053]
I wouldn’t bet on it. “Ponies and horse breeds that evolved in relatively harsh environments with only sparse grass, the proverbial “easy keeper,” tend to be more prone to EMS and insulin resistance. This possibly occurred as a survival mechanism, where the animal would lay down fat during plentiful times, such as the spring and summer, and maintain their weight more easily during the harsh, cold seasons. EMS appears to be more common in Welsh, Dartmoor, and Shetland ponies, Morgans, Paso Finos, Saddlebreds, Spanish Mustangs, and Warmbloods; and may also been seen in Quarter Horses and Tennessee Walking Horses, although is rarer in breeds such as the Thoroughbred and Standardbred. Most horses are 5–15 years of age when they develop laminitis that can be attributed to EMS.[1]” Source
And on Draft Breeds:
Certain draft horses are prone to polysaccharide storage myopathy (PSSM) and equine metabolic syndrome (EMS), so supplementation with energy-dense feedstuffs should be employed only when necessary to maintain body weight and fuel work.
Obesity is a concern among draft horses. Overconsumption of high-quality forage or concentrates can lead to laminitis. Veterinarians have documented more devastating outcomes when draft horses are diagnosed with laminitis when compared to light breeds.
Source[/QUOTE]
^^^ This is spot on ^^^
I live in FL not far from the Gypsies. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you should. The sweaty beasts with all that hair. If I had one and lived here I would keep the mane pulled and feather trimmed. Even just turning out at night they could still over heat. My (not gyp) mare would sweat like a pig.
Yes, muzzles. FL coastal grass is pretty much crap on the grass scale so not as scary. I wouldn’t want to have to deal with one when VA spring grasses come in.
Think overgrown pony. Shetlands and lots of lush grass… Yea, that part
I hope you have a nice dry, place that has no mud to keep it. Or the horse will suffer in the turnout department.
A person I knew of had a Percheron type horse that got scratches very, very badly. All the hair made it impossible to treat, and when they shaved the leg, the fetlock area was all full of folds for the bacteria to grow. Every treatment was used, hours of work, and eventually the mare was put down.
The horse was kept in a dry apart of BC but hot in the summer and cold in the winter, with some snow. She was kept in an indoor arena to keep the leg dry.
Google research showed that some draft types are very prone to this and after a while it becomes part of the horse and even medication given internally may not help.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8586262]
This is why I prefer to live in the desert and not where it rains all the time with lush green grass. As much as I love to look at green grassy pastures, alarm bells go off in my head with regard to laminitis, founder, metabolic issues. Two of my three horses are breeds that would be predisposed to such issues. I have their hay tested (actually buy hay from the grower that has already been tested for low NSC), manage them mostly on dry lots, with limited grazing in the summer time.
.[/QUOTE]
It can be hard to manage the “easy keeper” type, but on the flip side, they tend to be darn hardy when you have brutal winters.
I don’t think my draft pony has ever been cold in his life, and he lives outside even in the -30’s.
Just don’t ask him to do anything when it’s 85F or he’ll die probably 
So I grew up in England and a lot of the horses I rode as a kid were of the colored cob variety. Great, solid little horses with minds of their own but generally fairly forbearing temperaments, and could live on fresh air. Hairy enough to withstand the weather, but not overpoweringly so.
The Gypsy Cobs I see here generally have nice temperaments (I do know one that has been utterly spoiled by it’s novice owner and turned into a monster,) but have been purposely bred for all that damned feather, which defeats it’s own purpose. Instead of providing protection from the weather it gets saturated and holds in water, causing all sorts of skin crud.
And yes, they get obese on nothing. I have a friend who has a herd of them out on pasture (long story involving a husband who can never have just one of anything–they are now in a training and being sold on program!) and, sweet tempered as they are, she sure gets fed up with battling their weight and founder potential.
[QUOTE=saultgirl;8586343]
It can be hard to manage the “easy keeper” type, but on the flip side, they tend to be darn hardy when you have brutal winters.
I don’t think my draft pony has ever been cold in his life, and he lives outside even in the -30’s.
Just don’t ask him to do anything when it’s 85F or he’ll die probably :)[/QUOTE]
True, true! Mine are always outside and loved our big snow storm last year . . . and I never blanket them.
[QUOTE=Foxtrot’s;8586341]
I hope you have a nice dry, place that has no mud to keep it. Or the horse will suffer in the turnout department.
A person I knew of had a Percheron type horse that got scratches very, very badly. All the hair made it impossible to treat, and when they shaved the leg, the fetlock area was all full of folds for the bacteria to grow. Every treatment was used, hours of work, and eventually the mare was put down.
The horse was kept in a dry apart of BC but hot in the summer and cold in the winter, with some snow. She was kept in an indoor arena to keep the leg dry.
Google research showed that some draft types are very prone to this and after a while it becomes part of the horse and even medication given internally may not help.[/QUOTE]
?? That’s a bit odd. Antibiotics should clear up scratches that aren’t responding to topical treatments. I’ve known TB’s, QH’s, Paints, Warmbloods, Arabs and a Welsh pony that got scratches; it’s not just a draft thing.
[QUOTE=PlanB;8586523]
?? That’s a bit odd. Antibiotics should clear up scratches that aren’t responding to topical treatments. I’ve known TB’s, QH’s, Paints, Warmbloods, Arabs and a Welsh pony that got scratches; it’s not just a draft thing.[/QUOTE]
Overreacting. …
[QUOTE=PlanB;8586523]
?? That’s a bit odd. Antibiotics should clear up scratches that aren’t responding to topical treatments. I’ve known TB’s, QH’s, Paints, Warmbloods, Arabs and a Welsh pony that got scratches; it’s not just a draft thing.[/QUOTE]
Severe cases of scratches can turn into systemic infections. Horses are walking, eating, pooping staphylococcus colonies. As long as the bacteria stays on the outside, great. Once the infection makes it through a break in the skin, the infection is much harder to cure (think strangles or bastard strangles).
Unless you stay on top of the feathers, it can be easy to miss the start of a major scratches issue on a feathery horse.
The three vanners in my aquaintince suffered from severe scratches last year in out record rainfall and anhydrosis in the summer-fall. I haven’t heard of one of them foundering yet, but all are boarded on drylot situations.
[QUOTE=amm2cd;8586584]
Severe cases of scratches can turn into systemic infections. Horses are walking, eating, pooping staphylococcus colonies. As long as the bacteria stays on the outside, great. Once the infection makes it through a break in the skin, the infection is much harder to cure (think strangles or bastard strangles). [/QUOTE]
Of course they can. Which is why people should be getting the vet out for oral or injectable antibiotics if they don’t have scratches under control within a week or so. In my opinion anyways.
[QUOTE=PlanB;8586625]
Of course they can. Which is why people should be getting the vet out for oral or injectable antibiotics if they don’t have scratches under control within a week or so. In my opinion anyways.[/QUOTE]
Human beings in hospitals die of these types of infections even with immediate medical intervention. Horses are no different, other than owners tend to wait a week or two. Sometimes antibiotics aren’t enough, I IME as a tech at an equine hospital.
I’ve known a couple of Gyspys, and been around one in particular. I would be concerned about the issues with weight, and the metabolic spectrum. They are air ferns. The ones I know have not had issues with scratches, to my knowledge.
The one I am around a bit now is a very kind mare. She is clueless, green, and will try and do what they ask of her. She is veerrryyyy ssslllooowwww… Someone apparently decided that they should include jumping, which was a bad plan, and she is now having some soundness issues. I mean- zero impulsion, and she lands in a heap on her front end. She is obese, and the breed does not seem to ever have withers :lol:
If you want something to have fun with, they might be good for you. However, I would consider the maintenance issues with the obesity chip installed, and the immense amount of hair. I really believe that they are best for driving, but that is my opinion, only.
