Anyone do no turnout, like never ever...

[MsM]

I think it is ideal to have all day (or night) or 24 hr turnout. But I think many other plans can work. If a horse isnt getting significant turnout, it at least needs daily activity including some low-stress exercise (not always training). Horses that are working hard can adapt to limited turnout better than those that are lightly ridden 2 or 3 times a week.

I have always lived in the Northeast, so have always been able to find boarding stables offering some turnout. It does surprise me how many Ammies not in a program still opt for the fancy stable that only offers a half hour of turnnout rather than the plainer stable with all day turnout. We had an OTTB come from one with the warning that he “doesnt turn out”. BO put him in a paddock next to my horse and they immediately started a game of “got your face” and he happily stayed out all day from day one.

IME in my region, no turnout was most likely in barns specializing in Saddleseat (at least during show season because of the shoeing and wanting to have “brilliance”), and Stock horse Halter and WP (no sunburn or scratches!). Some of the bigger H/J barns do very limited turnout with some horses getting none.

[polkadotedpony]

Interesting that there seems to be less of a turnout culture in Europe with in training horses. That certainly tracks with the background of some of the boarders I’m thinking of.
While I am very pro-turnout I do think it’s just a piece of the puzzle. We moved from a barn with all night turnout to now a few days of week of walker plus 2-4 hours of turnout daily (weather permitting, but size of turnouts bigger than other place). I was very anxious about the change, but my horse is actually way more relaxed/happy at the new place so I’m not sure I agree about the less than 12 hours being cruel. I’d still ideally love to have 24/7 turnout but that doesn’t seem to exist at active training facilities around here.

[Calvincrowe]

There are some horses who do not do well in “all day” type turnout. I board one. He is good for about 2-3 hours in pasture, but as soon as it gets warm or bugs touch him, he’s done. Even on mild days, he’ll stand under the barn overhang (think run in shed) while his buddy grazes in the field. I’ve been at barns where there are horses who simply do not prefer long turnout times. I’ve seen horses tossed out for 24/7 turnout turn into anxious, pacing monsters–and they never get better. I think one needs to listen to the horse-- what do they prefer? Ideally, horses should be out moving all day, but in a boarding situation space is as such a premium that that isn’t feasible. Here in the PNW, weather is a problem. No horse enjoys standing for hours in a drenching, constant rain for days on end. And without all-weather paddocks, which for cost need to be fairly small, fields are mud pits if turnout is allowed in our wet months. There are so many factors to turnout, you simply can’t apply one criteria across the board.

[SusanO]

I am with Calvincrowe on this one. I have horses that get pretty upset being out in the rain or eaten up by flies. The best case scenario is to have a stall with 24/7 access to outdoors. I have one like this. It is eye opening how much she prefers to be indoors when the bugs come out in the Spring or it is raining. Even when the other two horses are outside around the barn where she can’t see them. But no way would I want to lock her in the stall 24/7. Egads!!! Not good for either of our mental health!

But most facilities are not set up like this. You would have to have a lot of fencing and just a few horses… I find with horse care there are few absolutes.

[xeroxchick]

My neighbor (who just moved)is a Reiner and her horses were almost never turned out because they had those special sliding shoes. I think in six years I saw them turned out less than a dozen times. They could only go out when the weather was perfect and dry. They got great care and seemed healthy enough. Really hard not to judge her. She competes a lot and even has special footing in her arena.

[ladyj79]

We had terrible turnout where I was in Holland, think giant rabbit warren stretching across multiple fields, so the big horse who was older and quiet got put out in the like 20x40ft paddock right outside the stalls, and the girls and the stallion were lunged, sometimes free lunged, hand walked, and eurocizer.

My Olympian’s top horses were hand walked in the case of the stallion, and eurocizer plus handwalked with the mare. Never turned out.

[xeroxchick]

@ladyj79

We had terrible turnout where I was in Holland, think giant rabbit warren stretching across multiple fields, so the big horse who was older and quiet got put out in the like 20x40ft paddock right outside the stalls, and the girls and the stallion were lunged, sometimes free lunged, hand walked, and eurocizer.

My Olympian’s top horses were hand walked in the case of the stallion, and eurocizer plus handwalked with the mare. Never turned out.

A giant,multi field rabbit warren! My eyes are popping. Soft earth? All I can think about is how delicious rabbit is and how much a pack of Bassetts or some terriers would love that!
In all seriousness though, that Warren needed some predation, to strengthen the group and care for the landowner’s pasture. That could have been taken care of, provided glee to the dogs,and dinner parties. Of course, have no idea about hunting laws in Holland/The Netherlands?

[Goforward]

Not all horses love turnout. I’ve got 8 horses in my barn right now and 3 of them only tolerate a few hours a day outdoors.
It’s not cruel to keep them indoors if that’s where they want to be.

[CanteringCarrot]

@lenapesadie

I was told by a former trainer, that in Germany it wasn’t uncommon for competition horses to live in stalls 24/7.

I know in some areas of California the horses are kept in small corrals without turn out as well.

Yep. It’s very common here in Germany. Even for non competition horses. It’s sad, really.

[S1969]

@Goforward

Not all horses love turnout. I’ve got 8 horses in my barn right now and 3 of them only tolerate a few hours a day outdoors.
It’s not cruel to keep them indoors if that’s where they want to be.

I boarded (briefly) at a barn where the barn manager often said “horses don’t like being turned out” - and it was true that many of them did not. But the way she managed turnout was most of the reason. Some horses would get turned out, but they would be alone, and often the only horse in turnout because “the others didn’t like it.” And there was no hay, water or shelter. In winter, stable blankets would be taken OFF before turning out, and no one kept turnout blankets at the barn, so horses would be cold. Horses with shoes were never shod with borium so they weren’t allowed to go out in the winter, ever. So it was a strange, isolated experience for many of them, and not surprisingly, they called to go back into the barn.

I think most horses like turnout, and most could probably tolerate more than a couple hours outside in the right conditions - adequate shelter, food and water; fly spray/blankets/boots in warm temperatures, appropriate blankets in cold…and well-matched equine company.;

There will still be a few oddballs, but they are definitely the exception to the rule, if given comfortable turnout situations. Horses aren’t meant to live in a box, and most do not get adequate exercise to make that a preferred living environment (e.g. carriage horses that work all day probably are very happy being stalled any time they are not working.)

[AppaloosaDressage]

Most of mine are asking to come in after 2-6 hours of turn out. Unfortunately not all stalls open directly to pasture access so I have to walk some of them to and from turn out. They go out in the morning after grain and by 1 (sometimes early as 11) they’re all at their gates, pacing or loping the fence line asking to come in to their hay. They’re in lush pastures with fresh water, either turned out with a buddy or right across the fence from them…it’s FL, it’s hot, and hanging out in front of a hay buffet and a fan does sound nice… so I kinda get it, but I do think they enjoy their stall time more than most. 🤔

[Bluey]

@CanteringCarrot

Yep. It’s very common here in Germany. Even for non competition horses. It’s sad, really.

I beg to respectfully disagree what is sad.

I agree it is sad to see horses kept in stalls and not cared for properly, that is never right.

It is also sad to see horses kept in supposedly ideal 24/7 turnout where some are really stressed 24/7.

Some have not any peace as they try to stay out of the dominant’s horses way, resting for a minute is risky, laying down to do so even more so.
They have to sneak a bite of communal feed sources and short drinks off troughs lorded over by the resident mean mare.

It is sad to see that mean mare stressed all day long trying to keep everyone in line and minding her, a self appointed task she found herself with and takes very seriously, but keeps her from having any peace.

It is sad to see barefoot horses gimping along while their owners keep saying, for months or years, shoes are evil, horses will get used to barefoot, eventually, is for their own good.

It is good to see nicely managed horses, if living in stalls or partly or wholly outside, if barefoot or shod, with suitable management for those horses — as the horses they are — individuals all.

[tabula_rashah]

Bluey sometimes I wonder if you’ve ever actually seen a horse in your life

[Bluey]

@tabula rashah

Bluey sometimes I wonder if you’ve ever actually seen a horse in your life

Why starting with personal digs?

Thinking things thru is always a good start to doing better.
After caring for horses for decades, in two continents, under all kinds of management, I can see the bigger picture of how we manage horses in all manners we do that and how we do right for them, how we fail them at times.

Our horses here have always been outside, in herds, because that is what fits here best.
That took plenty of management so they were suitable herds, so horses were not stressed more than normal life provides.
When we competed with them, they were in stalls and you know, that too took management for each horse to be the less stressed that provides.

I think we should not focus on what the management may be, but that it be right for the horses being managed.
Watch your horses, listen to them carefully.
Horses will tell you what is ok for each one of them.

My point is, there is no ideal, perfect places in this world.
Trying to fit one size for all, unrealistic.

My 2 cents worth.

[ABookworm]

The saddleseat barn I grew up in did no unsupervised turnout for the bigger show horses. It was interesting to see the difference between those horses and the school horses who had turnout daily for several hours.

My current herd consists of one small pony who was on 24/7 his whole life, a large pony who has had a variety of turnout options ranging from only out when it’s nice to 24/7 turn out, and a former show ASB who at one point didn’t ever get turnout. I couldn’t imagine keeping any of them on no turnout as they’re all so much happier getting their daily graze, play, run like idiots time. Personally I think 12+ hours is a solid turnout time for horses as I’ve seen my little herd gain well needed muscle and their mental health has improved drastically.

Any property I acquire to keep them at now needs to have the ability to give them 24/7 access to their stalls from the pasture. They seem to enjoy keeping their own preferences towards weather exposure and being able to have their own designated “safe” space during the day. (ie. the large won’t do rain so she scampers into her stall at the first sign of it, and the small and ASB take midday naps everyday in their stalls).

[lenapesadie]

My horse gets anxious in his turn out towards the end of the day. It isn’t because he doesn’t like turn out. It’s because he wants his grain, which is fed in his stall after turn in.

Horses are creatures of habit. They adapt to and come to expect a particular routine.

[Zu_Zu]

THIS question of turnout

all depends on the shoes and jobs and health of the horses

safety should Always be the determiner concerning turn-out

one size does not fit all Ӣ

[GraceLikeRain]

@NaturallyHappy

It’s my understanding that saddle seat type barns not only do not turn out (because of fancy showing), they like barns very dark.

I haven’t found dark barns to be the norm but absolutely horses stayed in once they were shod up. Youngsters lived in a herd setting until 18 months and then they came in to be started under saddle and would not be turned out again until retirement. Some barns apparently pull shoes on the off season and will turn some horses out and some academy horses get to go out but I didn’t see that at any of the barns I visited.

[Mango20]

A long time ago I worked for a high end (German) dressage trainer. The horses there were only allowed 1/2 hour of solo turnout in small paddocks if the weather and ground conditions were perfect. I suppose this was to minimize injuries, but from my experience, it backfired. These horses would run around like maniacs when you turned them out, very unlike a horse who goes out all day and walks calmly out to pasture. About half of the barn got cough medicine daily, and a few had weird stable vices. One stallion who was in work but retired from showing would get a somewhat longer turnout time in an actual pasture.

I occasionally work at a farm now that has one mare who asks to come in after a few hours once it’s warm and the bugs come out. This should be solved soon with a switch to night turnout.

My own horses have access to the barn when they’re out. They clearly prefer to be in during the day in the summer. I’ll sometimes find them hanging out inside at unexpected times.

[tabula_rashah]

@Bluey

Why starting with personal digs?

Thinking things thru is always a good start to doing better.
After caring for horses for decades, in two continents, under all kinds of management, I can see the bigger picture of how we manage horses in all manners we do that and how we do right for them, how we fail them at times.

Our horses here have always been outside, in herds, because that is what fits here best.
That took plenty of management so they were suitable herds, so horses were not stressed more than normal life provides.
When we competed with them, they were in stalls and you know, that too took management for each horse to be the less stressed that provides.

I think we should not focus on what the management may be, but that it be right for the horses being managed.
Watch your horses, listen to them carefully.
Horses will tell you what is ok for each one of them.

My point is, there is no ideal, perfect places in this world.
Trying to fit one size for all, unrealistic.

My 2 cents worth.

I hardly consider that a personal dig. I just wonder why you constantly argue against the actual inherent nature of horses. Yes each horse is an individual and there always some special cases, but you can’t just change the facts that horses are herd animals who are meant to be moving. Just because we can do something doesn’t mean that we should. Dogs can live happy, full lives on vegetarian diets- should we be doing that?