Ok…so asshat neighbor says dogs out 2 days running…and calls animal control both days? AC cannot catch dogs so quits and someone else puts dogs away…before you get home?
If this is the case I smell a rat.
[QUOTE=macmtn;8547514]
Ok…so asshat neighbor says dogs out 2 days running…and calls animal control both days? AC cannot catch dogs so quits and someone else puts dogs away…before you get home?
If this is the case I smell a rat.[/QUOTE]
Yes. This is why I don’t believe it was my dogs. And I was never notified. and I was never contacted until a couple weeks ago when an officer served me the papers to appear in court. Even the officer said “how are they supposed to remember something from a year ago”
I’m regularly in contact with animal control about missing dogs. They have my number. They have called. But a man named “Carl” at animal control seems to be on my crazy neighbors side. Neighbor has said he knows him personally. I’ll be glad when Carl retires because he constantly leaves work early and makes my SO pick up all dead animals. SO works for the department that picks up tree limbs from your ditch and mows grass at the park… It’s animal controls job to pick up dead animals…
A big dead smelly rat.
Can you get a copy of any complaints thru the FOIA? That should include any pictures.
I spent 5 years as a Humane Officer for the city of New Orleans. I smelled lots of rats…and got really tired of being used as a ‘neighbor’ against ‘neighbor’ legal Poleaxe.
[QUOTE=macmtn;8547545]
A big dead smelly rat.
Can you get a copy of any complaints thru the FOIA? That should include any pictures.
I spent 5 years as a Humane Officer for the city of New Orleans. I smelled lots of rats…and got really tired of being used as a ‘neighbor’ against ‘neighbor’ legal Poleaxe.[/QUOTE]
The only thing I have is the papers served to me which explained what went on that day. It dies state the animal control officer came out and personally saw the dogs. It doesn’t describe the dogs. Just says they were mine and they couldn’t catch them.
So just read the piece of paper. The time stamps are 15:45 the first day and 15:50 the next… Am I the only one that finds that odd?
My leashed dogs were attacked by a dog that jumped out it’s yard to attack us, and then jumped back in when one of mine gave him back more then he expected. It’s not that unusual.
If I read it right that all of your dogs have been bite trained, I think you are going to have problems going forward. I do think you should get an attorney as this may not be your only court appearance on the matter of your dogs and even if it is, from what you are posting here, you could use some legal advice.
Edited to add, maybe this isn’t any of my business, but I have to ask, if you already have a trained attack dog that you feel you need for protection, why are you bite training 5 more including rescue dogs with unknown history?
[QUOTE=Sswor;8547820]
My leashed dogs were attacked by a dog that jumped out it’s yard to attack us, and then jumped back in when one of mine gave him back more then he expected. It’s not that unusual.
If I read it right that all of your dogs have been bite trained, I think you are going to have problems going forward. I do think you should get an attorney as this may not be your only court appearance on the matter of your dogs and even if it is, from what you are posting here, you could use some legal advice.
Edited to add, maybe this isn’t any of my business, but I have to ask, if you already have a trained attack dog that you feel you need for protection, why are you bite training 5 more including rescue dogs with unknown history?[/QUOTE]
Because i train all my dogs. They have a job. Teaching a dog to bite a tug is very different from teaching them to bite a person. I do it for a living. The only dangerous dog I have that has actually bitten a person is kept inside.
I have no legal issue on my hands regarding my dogs training as no one that is involved in this knows anything about my dogs training. My insurance does and a select few people at the county sheriffs office does, but that’s because my uncle works there and I need information on laws regarding PPD.
Telling me my dogs that practice schutzhund is a liability is the same as telling me that a persons hunting dog is a liability.
Also, I don’t think 3 of my dogs jumped out of my fence and then jumped back in… That is very unusual. And my one dog that animal control was claiming was jumping out and jumping back in, physically could not jump at the time. He did good to wall up stairs.
I’m very interested to see how this goes. The dates in question I wasn’t at work at all. I went back through a year of Facebook posts and I actually have a post about my dogs, in my home on one of the dates in question. I was home… This should be fun.
Do you train your dogs in German for bite work? Most of the schuzhund dogs I have met are trained in obedience using English, and the bite work is done in German so there can be no mistake.
I adopted an older GSD last yr when his owner became very ill. The dog has lots of titles in schuzhund. His commands for bite work are in German and since I don’t know German or care about schuzhund, he isn’t going to attack anyone except to lick them to death.
That is the safety factor in responsible schuzhund training. Most people aren’t going to accidentally trigger the dogs training if the dog is correctly trained.
English is used for obedience and tracking.
The more I read, the more I suggest you get an attorney before you appear in court (and, obviously, have them appear in court with you). If all these people really have worked together to conspire against you, I think you are in danger of losing your dogs or some other significant penalty. It may not be a fine.
If there really is photo evidence of your dogs loose; I think you’re in danger of losing your dogs or some other significant penalty.
I would be proactive and get a lawyer involved.
[QUOTE=S1969;8547923]
The more I read, the more I suggest you get an attorney before you appear in court (and, obviously, have them appear in court with you). If all these people really have worked together to conspire against you, I think you are in danger of losing your dogs or some other significant penalty. It may not be a fine.
If there really is photo evidence of your dogs loose; I think you’re in danger of losing your dogs or some other significant penalty.
I would be proactive and get a lawyer involved.[/QUOTE]
Agree!
S1969 is wise
get a lawyer reference from someone at the sherrifs office?
I think the biggest issue is your antagonistic attitude. You catch more flies with honey…
The world isn’t against you. That’s a sad perspective in which to live life. :no: Turn that around and all of these other things will gradually turn around, too.:yes:
[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8546547]
You clearly misread my post. My dogs do not get out. …I want people scared of them. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8547473]This guy may very well have pictures of my dogs out…
So as it appears, only 3 of my 5 fenced dogs got out two days in a row. Animal control couldn’t catch them, but they managed to be put up before I was able to get home.[/QUOTE]
I’ll tell you exactly how this worked in the county i worked for:
A witness statement (although I always made sure mine were detailed) and an officer statement (as well as previous history of dogs running at large) will carry more weight than any vet statements or photographs of other people’s pets running loose. And honestly, if you came to court with me to show other dogs running loose in the neighborhood, I don’t know when or where you got those pictures. If it wasn’t reported, it didn’t happen.
With that said, I haven’t lost a running at large case, ever. Even without photographic evidence. A lot of dog owners come in and say all the things you have been saying throughout this thread, and deny it could be their dog because they didn’t even know about it. I would hope if you knew about it you’d make a better effort at containing the dogs.
And I have seen dogs jump in and out of a fence throughout the day. I also had the joy of having a steer do it as well.
My advice would be go to court, state your case, but be ready to pay a fine. And then either put cameras up or build a more secure fence.
ETA: its preponderance of evidence, not innocent until proven guilty in these cases. The person with the best evidence wins.
Yes my dogs are trained in German.
[QUOTE=Daisyrae;8548081]
I’ll tell you exactly how this worked in the county i worked for:
A witness statement (although I always made sure mine were detailed) and an officer statement (as well as previous history of dogs running at large) will carry more weight than any vet statements or photographs of other people’s pets running loose. And honestly, if you came to court with me to show other dogs running loose in the neighborhood, I don’t know when or where you got those pictures. If it wasn’t reported, it didn’t happen.
With that said, I haven’t lost a running at large case, ever. Even without photographic evidence. A lot of dog owners come in and say all the things you have been saying throughout this thread, and deny it could be their dog because they didn’t even know about it. I would hope if you knew about it you’d make a better effort at containing the dogs.
And I have seen dogs jump in and out of a fence throughout the day. I also had the joy of having a steer do it as well.
My advice would be go to court, state your case, but be ready to pay a fine. And then either put cameras up or build a more secure fence.
ETA: its preponderance of evidence, not innocent until proven guilty in these cases. The person with the best evidence wins.[/QUOTE]
So despite the fact that the dogs are not mine, you expect me to have to pay a fine for this? According to my Facebook post from a year ago. I was home. Which means my dogs were inside with me.
You’re not listening, OP. You really need a lawyer. It’s easy to think court is going to go a certain way unless you have actually been in court and had the pleasure of having to argue your side in front of a judge. You have no idea. Get a lawyer–is the best advice you could take all day.
Look at it this way. What a legal consultation will cost is nothing compared to what may be coming if you lose.
Show up with a lawyer-they may just fold up. or not. But
you have a 100% better chance of winning with one than without.
JMHO
What in the world do you guys think is going to happen? A dog running at large is just a fine. You’re acting as though I’m getting a jail sentence.
[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8548262]
What in the world do you guys think is going to happen? A dog running at large is just a fine. You’re acting as though I’m getting a jail sentence.[/QUOTE]
Could be a big fine but I would tell the judge that there has been no communication from the AC about this for most of the yr. I would also tell the judge about your troubles with the neighbor.
Good for you for teaching the dogs their bite work in German
You have trained attack dogs that have been menacing your neighborhood. IF one gets out and attacks someone, YOU could end up in jail. I, personally, would take this case as a warning shot across the bow. Your neighbors aren’t going to go quietly into the night. If I were your neighbor, I would have lawyered up already. You show up without counsel, you are going to be very sorry.
[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8546599]
Twice have my dogs been out. … They ended up taking the dog abd contacted my vet about his malnourishment.
My question was, since this instance wasn’t my dogs, what will be done?[/QUOTE]
I’m going to assume that everything you say is absolutely accurate. You only know of two escapes and you were set up with the rescue dog.
Unfortunately, sometimes being right isn’t enough, especially if you’re dealing with people who are allegedly setting you up. If someone could take the rescue dog out for pictures, they could do the same with any of your other friendly dogs. And it is possible that they could try to use your “history” against you.
Assuming you’re dealing with someone(s?) who is deliberately setting you up, you’re probably going to have to take extra measures to thwart them in the future. Even if you “win” this battle, anyone who would deliberately release your dog will probably keep trying.
Keeping the dogs inside while you’re away would be a start. (Why can’t they be a deterrent from inside the house? If they’re inside a secure fence, they’re not going to be able to help you if a potential assailant is lurking outside of the fence. And even if you park your vehicle inside the fence, you’ll still need to get out of your car outside of the fence to get the gate.) Security cameras would help with future allegations. Padlocks might also be a good idea, if you don’t have it padlocked already. Maybe even consider putting an invisible fence along the fence line so that your dogs will stay several feet away from the fence and any potential escape points? (And yes, if I were you’d I’d probably be saying that it isn’t fair that you are being “forced” to make changes, perhaps expensive ones. But if someone is deliberately letting your dogs out, they’re not going to play fair.)
As for your question about what’s going to be done, did the notice cite the violation? If so, you should be able to look up the ordinance. You can generally find the applicable penalties in the ordinance.
Usually, the penalties start with fines (assuming the dog has not attacked people or other animals) and with repeated citations may eventually end up with removal of the animals. It is unlikely that the dogs will be removed on the first citation.
[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8546702]
Thank you for the post about taking pictures of the other dogs. I can also pull off my Facebook group about the dogs that go missing in my area. I didn’t think of that[/QUOTE]
It’s never a bad thing to be as prepared as possible, but it is unlikely that photos or posts re: other loose dogs would be considered to be relevant. The issue is the allegation about your dogs, not other random dogs. By all means, prepare the info and have it with you, but don’t be surprised if the person hearing the case isn’t interested.
It would probably be more effective to take photos of your entire fence, the ground along the fenceline to show that there is no evidence of digging (assuming there isn’t), the gates, the padlock (if it was there during the alleged escape) and any other security measures that were in place at the time of the alleged escape. If you have any photos of your undamaged, secure fence and gate that were taken prior to the alleged escape, those might be relevant (though time stamps can obviously be faked so the usefulness may be limited). If there is anything on your property that would indicate the possibility of escape such as damage to the fence or ground or items that the dogs could climb on to make their escape, I wouldn’t include those pictures. You don’t have to self-incriminate. However, if there is any damage or items the dogs could use to climb out, I would get them fixed asap to help avoid future problems. But be aware that your neighbor/AC may already have pictures of any existing defects in your fence.
[QUOTE=Ready To Riot;8547473]This guy may very well have pictures of my dogs out. …
All my dogs have their CGC and 2 volunteer at a hospital for children. Sometimes nursing homes, but big dogs aren’t typically welcome. I suppose I should take proof of this to speak for my dogs character?[/QUOTE]
Make sure you bring photos of your dogs so that if the witness descriptions are inaccurate, you can prove it. However, if there are photos of your dogs out of the fence, it probably won’t end in your favor. Again, if someone deliberately manufactures false evidence for this case, your best course of action is to do whatever you need to to prevent that person from getting another opportunity in the future.
It sounds like the only issue is whether or not your dogs escaped. If your dogs were not accused of attacking someone, then proof of training and temperament are unlikely to be relevant (the best-trained dogs can go walkabout when not supervised). Having said that, it wouldn’t hurt to have the proof with you just in case, but it probably won’t be helpful.
If you weren’t there, there is a possibility - however slim - that maybe they did get out and were put back in. The burden is on the authorities to prove that they did (or that it is more likely than not that they did). If the other side has photos, it is possible that you might end up paying a fine and you might end up with some recommendations for management changes. If, in fact, you have someone who is deliberately lying and/or messing with your dogs, it would probably be a good idea to make changes to minimize your future risk. And I’m saying this from the position that you’re absolutely in the right. IMO, protecting the dogs from almost inevitable future problems is more important than being right.
