Would a trip to New Bolton be possible?
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That wasn’t me riding, it was my friend. But India is very very anxious. I tell people she’s like a bomb waiting to go off, but she never does. This is a video of me riding her a few months ago. This is about as relaxed as she gets. I ordered some regumate to see if she calms down at all. She’s in training right now and the main things they’re working on is getting her to relax and building muscle.
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Her gait reminds me a bit of a friend’s horse who had a failed hock surgery. After 8 months stall rest and another 8 months on turnout/doing walk work under saddle she has that laggy gait at the trot. She doesn’t really look like she’s in pain, she just can’t use that leg to the same degree. She’s had injections and osphos and it didn’t make a difference.
You definitely need xrays. As others have mentioned, it’s probably worth hauling her and getting a full workup since you dont quite know what you’re looking for, but if you want to go step by step I’d start by xraying the hocks. This mare is lucky to have you!
So…this is really a very long, long shot in the dark…my friend has one who looks a bit like this. Several vets looked at him, but only one immediately noted the differences in his muscling behind. Tested for EPM…and he came back positive. She treated him and he’s much better now and is all most even behind now.
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Which sort of test did she do? Spinal tap or blood test? I’ve read that the blood test will tell you if the horse has been exposed at any time in their life but doesn’t necessarily tell you if they’re having an active infection.
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Agreed. I think she only did the blood test. I think she said her vet recommended treatment because the numbers were very, very high…and combined w the muscle waisting, he felt it was worth trying.
I’ll mention it to the vet and ask if they can test for me.
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This was the first thing I noticed in all the videos you posted - no one was asking her to actually MOVE. No one has any real contact with the mouth, she’s not being asked to come round and use herself better.
I have zero doubt she’s lame - it’s easy to see in the first videos especially - but I wonder how much of what we’re seeing may be due to the fact that she’s not actually being asked to do much. I didn’t even see her look down and bring her back up over the cavaletti in the one video. Strengthening her back muscles might address at least part of the issue.
I knew a horse that would trip over his own feet and fall flat if he wasn’t on the bit and being asked to work every single stride of every single ride.
Otherwise, I would haul her to New Bolton and have a thorough workup done. I’d also have her tested for EPM - the two horses I’ve seen with it had the same hindquarter wasting and lameness I see in your mare. It’s simple enough to do, and may eliminate at least one possibility.
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I would approach her with chiro and massage work and rehab type riding - over the back at the walk on hills for strengthening. I think getting her hips and back adjusted could do wonders for the rest. Likely won’t fix the root problem but would help alleviate issues that stem from the root problem.
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A horse I worked with looked a lot like how she does now.
In that video of her at NV she looks tight and lame. But it does appear the lameness has gone away and she’s just tight. In the horse I worked with, he was also tight behind at the trot and then would eventually work out of it. He had arthritis in his stifles and weak muscles around his stifles. Adequan and lots of stifle strengthening work helped him. However, he was x-rayed through this back before to make sure there wasn’t anything else going on first.
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When you say failed her ppe …what exactly did she fail? I would suggest having front feet X-rays sooner rather than later …I had a horse who did same sort of thing with front feet with farrier when he was laminitic …is she overweight ? Is she out on grass 24/7 ? Could she have laminitis ? Have you ever checked pulses in her front feet ? How old is she? Cushings could be a possibility as can Lyme …all things that can affect the feet …however it’s not un common for Tb’s to have thin soles and sensitive feet …what’s her diet ?
I highly recommend hauling her to a vet hospital and have her evaluated by a specialist…this could be any number of things from lameness, neuro etc …not sure of your location but New Bolten Center is excellent
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Her PPE is higher in the comments. She’s not overweight but she isn’t your typical thin thoroughbred. She is 8. She doesn’t have an issue with people doing things to her front feet, she just can’t balance because her hind end is so weak.
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She looks much more relaxed in the clip with you riding but also not using herself at all and still undermuscled even compared to her later sales video. Didn’t look particularly off there on the straight line but I wonder what she looked like from behind as far as pelvic movement.
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Here is my other friend riding her, asking her to work in a frame. She cant hold it, just puts her head down for a second and then back up. Probably because she doesn’t have enough muscle to sustain it. I tried to upload this video with my phone but it didn’t work. That’s why there’s so many deleted messages. Oops
That is very typical of a greenbean in general, you’ll get 1-2 good strides then 3-4 not so great ones… Keep chipping away and the number of not-so-great strides goes down and the number of good strides improves. All part of the training scale.
In this video she is at least moving out, your friend is doing a good job of keeping her forward - so many people think with TBs they should be slowing them down, but in the process they lose the impulsion.
The more videos of this mare you share, the more I think you’ll get some clear answers at a clinic. She presents as bilaterally sore behind and this can be anything from an up-high injury like an old pelvis injury, to being sore in their feet. It’s really any COTHer’s guess at this point without seeing her in person. We know from videos we saw a very marginal improvement after hock injections. Hocks typically present clinically secondary to something else; something to keep in mind as you delve down the rabbit hole of her soundness.
Got photos of her feet behind? I do see foot soreness.
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She looks better in the second video but because of the angle I can’t see her hind legs very well. She doesn’t want to bend the joints in her hind legs and carry weight - especially that right hind leg. It looks better when she is ridden more forward but still is present. What is wrong? I don’t know. I think it is higher up than the feet although they may not be ideal.
I didn’t see this as much in the original sales video but I still see that tendency. One thing sticks out at me. She was on the track for two years and only ran three times? That seems unusual to me. Don’t most trainers want that stall filled ( and racetracks too) with horses that are actively racing? So what was the horse doing all that time? Were there niggling injuries present at that time?
agree with everyone, get to the best diagnostic available. Sacrum and hip/ pelvis are in play but I would also consider a cervical neck vertebral issue as a possible contributor. Spinal issues are complex, not all lameness involves the legs
Personally I would stop riding her.
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She definitely looks better in this video - a young horse with no muscling can’t keep a frame for very long. When she’s asked to move forward and be more in front of the leg, she’s tracking up much better, although this video (as Beowulf said) doesn’t let us see her moving from behind. When she does start to accept contact, she’s a lovely little mover, though.
Take her to New Bolton or wherever, get a good overall exam done, do a lameness exam, and I’d also try massage and chiropractic. If you can’t do back shoes right now, have you tried her in boots?
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