I think in the early days of the Hunter Derby concept, opening and closing a gate could be one of the tests. I don’t believe that is allowed now. Anyone remember seeing a Derby with that test? @MHM?
Gates are no longer allowed under the hunter rules. Ditto for getting off and leading the horse over a jump.
Which was not something that happened very often anyway. But it did provide some pretty entertaining pictures. Lol.
According to the course requirements in the USHJA Derby class specs, they are allowed to include banks and ditches. But that doesn’t happen very often, since most places don’t have those options.
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And also in Canada. (edited to clarify that hunters are also a thing in Canada)
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Have you been to a show in Canada? They have hunters there that look remarkably like the American version.
And there are Canadians who bring their hunters to the US to show as well.
That used to be an option in hunter derby rounds. They took it out because probably people complained it was too hard. They also used to have one where you could lead your horse over a jump. Also removed.
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If you’re responding to me, I’ve shown Hunters in Canada 
. Not at any sort of high level, but have been lucky to watch them at the Royal Winter Fair in Toronto for hours and loved every minute of it. There are a lot of Canadian stables that show in the US.
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Didn’t you claim in your previous post that there was no such thing in Canada?
Or were you saying they do exist in Canada?
Makes me sad bc I literally love the gelding I am on nowadays because he is a fancy boy regional Big Eq finals and Derby horse of the early 2010s, but even then a bit “old style”.
I joke and say hes such a field hunter to my trainer all the time - just a nice guy, likes to hop fences, lets you take off jackets, drink and spill water while mounted, trade crops and change spurs while mounted, road hacks, apparently jumps open water and banks (I am a chicken and havent done this yet).
I wish they honored this type of animal & the ride he allows and creates - he’s truly wonderful and its a pleasure to ride.
(not me on him - his old male owner - I ride him in a copper loose ring snaffle and no martingale - I find it impossible to believe he ever required a pelham)
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I hate it when they’re bad about that, but nobody warns you, so you end up finding out the hard way. Lol.
No one. I think you are correct.
The problem is encouraging horsepeople to continue to support the hunter ring. I had a long talk recently with a good friend about the changes in the hunter industry and how to keep it going. The problems we identified as the biggest were show costs, and a lack of incentive for people to buy and bring along younger horses. Obviously those two things are related.
Owners used to want to buy a horse and watch it progress with a professional, until it was ready for them to ride, or ready to sell, or a source of pride to own. Now that’s incredibly expensive, although if you do it right there’s of course a chance of a six or seven figure pay off at the end. My friend thought higher prizemoney and a fair chance of the horse paying its way (as a good hunter used to be able to do, you could float right along with no show bills until you hit an off week) would do the trick. I wasn’t convinced but didn’t have a counteroffer.
My issue was, as evidenced here in this thread as well, there is just not as much interest now in watching the “horse” part of the horse show. The whole reason we invented horse shows is because people wanted to prove they had the best horse. The entire package, looks, movement, and jump. Having a top horse was the goal, but people also loved to watch and compare, to see “top” horses from different areas go head to head. Now people barely watch their own class. They didn’t want to wait around for a jog. Many of them couldn’t tell you what the horse looked like that beat them, let alone why it beat them. Judging is definitely a mystery if you don’t watch a whole class. And then you go to watch a special class and your eye isn’t tuned and that mystery becomes boring and frustrating.
It’s a cultural shift, and it’s not just the horse industry I don’t think; people aren’t very interested in watching things that aren’t directly about them. Unless they are “exciting”. But the things that used to excite people about owning a hunter just don’t carry as much weight anymore. As I said above somewhere in this thread, I think the demise of the special stand alone show plays a big part, but I also think a lot of it has to do with that aspect of horsemanship that’s been slowly dying, looking for that total package and developing it properly to meet all comers. And I don’t know how to fix that. Maybe it is a better payday now that would provide the incentive, but it was never about the money before.
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The problem was these things took forever. You could keep them and limit entries, or take them out and have more entries.
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Not only is it expensive, but more people want to actually ride the horses they own instead of paying the way for their trainers to ride nice horses. I don’t think that’s a problem or that there’s anything wrong with wanting to do the sport rather than watch the sport.
I also think riders not watching the whole class is less a function of not wanting to, and more that it can take hours upon hours (many of those with an empty ring). When the ring sits empty for 30 minutes and no one’s warming up in the schooling area, it’s natural to wander off to the jumper ring or somewhere else where there’s actually something to spectate.
My experience is that bigger classes to draw an audience when they’re timed correctly. When WEF does the hunter spectacular under the lights, there’s a good turn out. When HITS and Saratoga run their international derby at 8 AM on a Saturday, no one watches. Even other attendees at the show have things to do at that time.
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With all the talk about interesting to ride/watch classes being too expensive in terms of time/money, surely addressing the hours of wasted, paid judge time could make up for the odd four minute round specialty class. I wonder why didn’t the empty ring feature in the original article as a barrier to spectators.
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Way back when I showed AA Hunters with my second horse (provincial level) I also did the AA Eq classes because they were supposed to have additional challenges to the courses. The year I did them the additional challenge at every show was a bending line. That was it. Of the dozen or so things the could ask for, not one show did. The Eq flat classes were no better, having sitting trot as their only challenge.
I was horribly disappointed as my horse was the sort that occasionally pinned, and I was showing for personal challenge and pleasure. Equitation classes should have been more fun. I wrote to my zone rep (who was also show manager for a couple of shows) expressing my disappointment and hope that things would change in the future. The response told me that the shows had no control over the eq classes as it was up to the judges to select the challenges, and no one liked the challenges anyway.
The following year the Eq classes at all levels, and all shows in the zone suddenly asked for more than finding 8 fences with Hunter form. The coaches’ response was almost universal dislike (it’s harder to perch someone on a btdt horse and have them pin when the rider has to demonstrate some skill). The riders’ response was almost universal delight.
And I have completely forgotten where I was going with this… 
At one time weren’t Pelhams part of the Eq horse’s “uniform”? Like Hunters all had standing martingales.
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I would watch hunters more if there was a bit more structure to the scoring. I happily watch the big show jumping grand prixes on ClipMyHorse but rarely seek out the big hunter classes. I definitely never showed at a high level in the hunters (nor the jumpers really). But I understand good hunter riding. I can tell great round from a “meh” round but sometimes I fully perplexed by the placings. If the score was broken down per jump plus points awarded for track and pace and overall impression, there would be some clarity to the placings. Just a few of my humble thoughts!
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Not watching my own class was typically more to do with having to take care of my horse. No groom to hand my horse off to (and no desire to hand my horse off and no funds to do it even if I wanted to).
When I did have time to watch classes, there was typically a lack of place to do that. Once the fence line is full of people leaning on it… there really is no view (note, I never showed at the huge venues, no out of state rated stuff for me).
I did always enjoy watching things like short stirrup. Cute kids and cute horses/ponies.
