Apiro, C. Quino, Ragtime or Crown Affair? Please share your experience with them.

[bluedapple]

I have a 16 hand medium bone fantastic moving Voltaire mare with a very nice jump. I like a heavy boned horse, so that doesnt bother me about Apiro. She moves so well that I hate to take that away. This is such an awesome mare that I wish I could just replicate her completely. She is easy easy easy and moves and jumps the best. If I had to pick on her though, she could use height, a better top line and a bigger step. I really hate to loose her exceptional temperament and gorgeous trot.

monami- your three year old is the best moving Apiro I have seen! Wow

[monami]

Thanks! The mare moves good too but he adds the umph! The Filly is out of a typical daisy cutter type TB mare and look at the elastisity he added, I think her could certainly do what you need AND ours have both been pretty as well.

[GGStables]

[QUOTE=Samotis;6655105]
I think all these stallions probably throw different types with different mares.

Real question is, how do they improve and not improve on say a fine boned tb, or a old style wb mare?

I myself have a very fine boned tb mare that is very flat kneed, so I am looking for different attributes then someone who has a thicker style wb mare that needs refining and such. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

I haven’t read all the feedback but I bred a compact, fine boned TB mare that sounds a bit like yours to Apiro and had a filly. The only reasonable comparison was the older Coromino (gelding) half-brother who looked like a Coromino clone. So, without making this too long by going into detail about the mare and what stallions will religiously bring to the mix:
I found the filly FAR more complex overall, shorter in height, prettier face, more compact and still refined - very cute rather than elegant.

She is as smart as a whip, challenges the status quo and way more independent in character than the gelding was at her age. She has opinions and will demand air time, but is the first to learn something new and strangely won’t spazz when the rest of the herd freaks out over something but by the same token, she’ll have a stubborn moment or conniption fit when the rest don’t even register an issue. Maybe it’s just the way mares roll…?

In terms of training, both were under saddle by 2.5 years old but both required very different handling to get there.

[bluedapple]

there are alot of nice Apiro babies out there.vid love to hear about the other stallions…

[Perfect_Pony]

I have not been a huge fan of the offspring out of TB mares by Ragtime (for an ammy horse that is…). All the ones I have seen have been a bit light of bone and very sensitive types. They were very TB in type, lovely movers and jumpers, just a bit hot and sensitive. If that is what you want then it would be a good cross, they were all very fancy.

I like him a lot as a stallion, there are quite a few around here. I would love to see him crossed on a nice dressage bred WB mare with some substance.

[bluedapple]

Acorino? Anyone have any info on his foals? He is big (17h) and has a lovely trot…yummy

[DLee]

Because quite a few people have asked for photos, here is my Apiro gelding at two, and my C.Quito colt at five months, both out of my TB mare, Stormin Scooter.
It’s so fascinating how similar, and then different, they are, I really do love having the few foals I’ve bred.
I feel the Apiro gelding was very ‘in your face’ when he was young. I have heard that from other people with Apiro youngsters. I had to be quite tough with him for a while. I see a big difference in his attitude in the last few months, and I feel that as he starts doing things, he will get better and better. I have a four year old full TB filly out of this mare, who is sweet as pie. The personality differences are amazing as well!
The C.Quito colt is somewhere between the filly and the Apiro as far as temperament. They both have great bone and feet (both an improvement on the mare), I feel they all have their mama’s beautiful head.

[monami]

Just a thought since you asked about Ragtime, his sire Regazonni has sired so many nice horses you may want to look at him as well. You may also think about Harvard since you mare has a lot of jump.

[bluedapple]

Monami- thanks for the Regazzoni idea. How reliable is Harvard for temp and a hunter trot? I know of one Harvard colt that is TO DIE FOR.

[winter]

I have a two year old filly by Apiro.
She is out of a very refined TB/dutch mare who is 15.2. Mare was a good mover and overall is very athletic in an elastic, cat like way.
The filly has a very quiet very stubborn temperment. Only does things she wants to do, is impossible to persuade, but once she makes up her mind to do it is the most pleasant girl. Not sensitive at all.
Filly is a lovely mover, much more hunter-y than mom. Slower, bigger gaits. Flat kneed trot, big slow canter. Mom has a much prettier head than filly. Filly has signifigantly more bone that mom, and is a solid 16 hands or more at two.
Overall I am very pleased with her and have considered repeating the cross.

[winter]

Just saw the subsequent posts about Regazzonni; another R line stallion you might consider is Rubinus for hunters.
I have seen him in person and have a two year by him. He has wonderfull presense, is a gorgeous mover and is tall. For some reason his pictures make him look small, but I’ve stood next to him and he is a legit 16.3.
My filly is tall (not too tall but will be 16.2 out of a ~15.3 mare). She has medium bone, a beautiful head and neck and lofty flat movement. Her mother was much more of a dressage mover, the filly has her suspension but moves a lot flatter and has a better canter. Great personality, inquisitive and smart, sensitve but sensible.

[ShortStory]

[QUOTE=winter;6658193]
Just saw the subsequent posts about Regazzonni; another R line stallion you might consider is Rubinus for hunters.
I have seen him in person and have a two year by him. He has wonderfull presense, is a gorgeous mover and is tall. For some reason his pictures make him look small, but I’ve stood next to him and he is a legit 16.3.
My filly is tall (not too tall but will be 16.2 out of a ~15.3 mare). She has medium bone, a beautiful head and neck and lofty flat movement. Her mother was much more of a dressage mover, the filly has her suspension but moves a lot flatter and has a better canter. Great personality, inquisitive and smart, sensitve but sensible.[/QUOTE]

don’t have any experience with foals by Rubinus, but I did see him at the Royal winter fair, he is such a sweet boy in person with a puppy dog attitude, I would definitely give him a look

[EquineLVR]

We had a beautiful C. Quito colt in our barn this year… out of a Riverman mare… he was absolutely lovely. Correct, confident and a very nice mover. Sadly he was lost due to an accident…

[bluedapple]

[QUOTE=EquineLVR;6658239]
We had a beautiful C. Quito colt in our barn this year… out of a Riverman mare… he was absolutely lovely. Correct, confident and a very nice mover. Sadly he was lost due to an accident…[/QUOTE]

oh no, Im so sorry to hear that:(

[DLee]

[QUOTE=EquineLVR;6658239]
We had a beautiful C. Quito colt in our barn this year… out of a Riverman mare… he was absolutely lovely. Correct, confident and a very nice mover. Sadly he was lost due to an accident…[/QUOTE]

OH I am SO very sorry!

[Signature]

So sorry to hear about your colt!

If you’re really looking for trot movement improvement, Don Alfredo is one of the few that’s very consistent at putting on the flat kneed movement. It may not be “huge” movement, but the mechanics are flattened. Usually the mare has a ton of influence on the movement, so expecting a hack winner out of a bad moving mare is probably not a good goal, but DA has, from what we’ve seen, been pretty prepotent about it as a sire.

Our Harvard filly was the nicest horse we’ve bred, with an outstanding disposition. The second nicest overall are probably our Apiros, and then we have had a few Donatellis that are outrageous. Furst Impression gave us a lovely hunter type, but intentionally, all of our mares move extremely well. Best bet is to watch tons of foal videos on YouTube showing foals with their dams side by side in movement. See if the foal’s movement is to your liking, and whether it moves like the mare or seems to be improved rather by the stallion. We spend hours analyzing offspring videos like this to make sure we pick a stallion that will compliment the mare the right places, as best we can. Good luck!!

[bluedapple]

[QUOTE=Signature;6658872]
So sorry to hear about your colt!

If you’re really looking for trot movement improvement, Don Alfredo is one of the few that’s very consistent at putting on the flat kneed movement. It may not be “huge” movement, but the mechanics are flattened. Usually the mare has a ton of influence on the movement, so expecting a hack winner out of a bad moving mare is probably not a good goal, but DA has, from what we’ve seen, been pretty prepotent about it as a sire.

Our Harvard filly was the nicest horse we’ve bred, with an outstanding disposition. The second nicest overall are probably our Apiros, and then we have had a few Donatellis that are outrageous. Furst Impression gave us a lovely hunter type, but intentionally, all of our mares move extremely well. Best bet is to watch tons of foal videos on YouTube showing foals with their dams side by side in movement. See if the foal’s movement is to your liking, and whether it moves like the mare or seems to be improved rather by the stallion. We spend hours analyzing offspring videos like this to make sure we pick a stallion that will compliment the mare the right places, as best we can. Good luck!![/QUOTE]

Its so funny, DA is my fav and the one I have been comparing these other stallions too. He has so much going for him; awesome mover, jumper, temperament. But that tighter shoulder trot that he throws is a problem. My mare could use more of a fluid shoulder at the trot.

Is it better to double up on your mares strengths or work on her weaknesses? I feel like its a safe bet to go with DA to double up on the movement and temperament.

How does Harvard compare to DA with length of stride/fluid shoulder type movement? I would think that DA would have a better jump then Harvard, but Harvard may win in the freedom through the shoulder type of movement.

[PINE_TREE_FARM_SC]

I co-own a three year old Apiro gelding with another COTHer. He did very well at IHF regionals and has shown in some VHSA shows with great success.
His dam was a TB and he is a half brother to the approved stallion Sea Accounts.
Some of the Apiro’s that I have seen out of WB mares with little blood are a bit chunky. Just my opinion but because he has a low blood % he does better with mares with some blood.
I am considering using him again in 2013 but I believe he is frozen only and I’m not sure I want to go that route.

[VirginiaBred]

I’m going to chime in regarding the crossing of Aprio with WB mares and TB mares. Hands down, based on the crosses I’ve seen, he does far batter crossed with TB mares.

[Signature]

[QUOTE=bluedapple;6658964]
Its so funny, DA is my fav and the one I have been comparing these other stallions too. He has so much going for him; awesome mover, jumper, temperament. But that tighter shoulder trot that he throws is a problem. My mare could use more of a fluid shoulder at the trot.

Is it better to double up on your mares strengths or work on her weaknesses? I feel like its a safe bet to go with DA to double up on the movement and temperament.

How does Harvard compare to DA with length of stride/fluid shoulder type movement? I would think that DA would have a better jump then Harvard, but Harvard may win in the freedom through the shoulder type of movement.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree - I’ve not seen a lot of DA’s with big, elastic gaits. Good jumps, yes, and dispositions too. He himself doesn’t have true huge movement, and he’s been bred to a lot of TB’s who also don’t have it either. Our DA filly was a fanastic flat kneed mover (actually out of the same dam as the Apiro g you liked) but lacked elasticity, HOWEVER, jumped a 10 also - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9f-arGWHww&list=UUqAsYkxzowZ_ameX-oBZfMQ&index=9&feature=plcp (video from person who bougth her). The Apiro was far more elastic. And Apiro seems to add the power and elasticity consistently. We used him on a light boned TK mare (the dam of the one you liked and the DA) and a TB mare, and he did not add that much bone to either one, actually. Both of our Apiros were more sensitive but not in a bad way.

I do think the purpose-breeding will show between DA and Harvard. DA is jumper bred who just happens to move good. Harvard is dressage bred who happens to jump good. So, yes, I would expect the jump from DA to be better, and Harvard to pass on the gummy, scopey movement. We crossed Harvard to a jumper bred mare we know passes both movement and jump and got the nicest horse we’ve ever bred. Repeating the cross this spring! But I would definitely watch offspring videos and see where you find you see the traits you want to acheive passed consistently out of a variety of mares.