With that coloring and that facial marking? Africa.
Timely thread - I’m looking at a Appaloosa/Dutch x. Two and appears solid bay now with “some roaning”. Does this mean he could go full app at some point down the road? As long as he has a tail, I could be ok with that. Haha. Between the coloring and trying to guess what size he’ll end up, the whole thing feels very shot-in-the-dark. (which I guess all horse shopping is anyway!)
It depends on what, exactly, the “some roaning” looks like. It could be from, say, some sabino influence, or some rabicano, or, yes, it could be the appy varnish.
I think the color has been covered so I am only going to add - So freaking cute. I can not wait for more photos.
I thought “Africa” too, due the shape of his star. Or, if you want a show name, “Night in Tunisia” and call him Dizzy for a barn name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQYXn1DP38s
ETA, I think he’s super cute <3
With no characteristics, it’s unlikely that he will color later.
My mare was born a bright red bay and was solid until she turned 1 year old. Then she started to roan out. She does have the mottled muzzle, eyes, and girly parts.
[QUOTE=awaywego;7711146]
Timely thread - I’m looking at a Appaloosa/Dutch x. Two and appears solid bay now with “some roaning”. Does this mean he could go full app at some point down the road? As long as he has a tail, I could be ok with that. Haha. Between the coloring and trying to guess what size he’ll end up, the whole thing feels very shot-in-the-dark. (which I guess all horse shopping is anyway!)[/QUOTE]
Well, does he have any characteristics? Stripped hooves, white around the eyes, spotted muzzle? If he doesn’t have any of those, developing color is unlikely.
If he does have some appaloosa characteristics - he may develop color, but “spots” are unlikely. It would be more likely that he is a “Varnish Roan” which tends to look like THIS or a color something like THIS.
Keep in mind, they might keep the tail, or might not.
Mine had a pretty thick black mane and tail as a weanling and yearling.
Then as a two year old she started to roan - and the black stopped growing all together. Some white started growing in.
By the time she was 3 - her mane and tail were quite thin (and mostly white)
Now as a 6 year old, its getting thicker - but has still has not added length.
On the other hand, I had another appy who clearly had roan coloring, and he had a decent tail, long, not super thick, but passable.
[QUOTE=Appsolute;7711681]
Well, does he have any characteristics? Stripped hooves, white around the eyes, spotted muzzle? If he doesn’t have any of those, developing color is unlikely. [/QUOTE]
Does not appear to have any app characteristics at this time - no mottling, no white around eyes. Did not know to look for striped hooves! i really don’t know much about appaloosas to be honest, but the cross interested me because I figured he might have a good temperment.
Appsolute - your horse is super cute - I did not know they changed colors that much! I guess I thought they were more like pintos - born with color or not. Interesting.
Appaloosa color is quite complicated - and while it is known that there are various genes that affect color - there are not tests available for all of them.
Basically, first to have any appaloosa color at all, the horse must carry one copy of the LP gene. This will cause stripped hooves, molted skin (muzzle, genitals), and white sclera (to various extents).
Horses that have the LP gene will usually display all or some of the above, and may be “varnish roan” colored.
Varnish roan acts a bit like grey, in that the horse is born dark, and develops white hairs over time. Some will “roan out” by the time they are a yearling, others will still be changing progressively lighter until late in life.
To get “spots” like a leopard appaloosa or a blanket, the horse must also have at least one copy of the PATN gene. Generally the spots caused by PATN stay put, and do not develop or fade.
My horse went under such a drastic color change, because she started life looking like a dark bay with blanket (LP + PATN), but as she grew older it became clear that she is a dark bay, with a blanket AND varnish roan.
If she did not have the PATN gene to make “spots” and a blanket, she would have most likely gone from dark bay to a color like THIS.
Its easy to see that under her spots, her base coat is like a standard varnish roan, with dark colored nose, knees, elbows, etc. Every year when she sheds, her base coat gets lighter, and leaves behind more spots (when she was little, her solid bay areas had very shadowy spots in them).
There are some appaloosas that are born leopard, or blanket etc and stay exactly the same color throughout their lives (horses without roan). There are others who are born solid, or blanket, or leopard put ALSO are varnish roan - and their base colors go light over time.
Like THIS HORSE, was probably born looking something like THIS. (same with the dam in the back ground, she is blanket + varnish).
I have had people ask “will she lose her spots?” In my experience appaloosas do not “lose their spots”. If they are born with spots, they will keep spots.
But, if you have lets say a snow cap appaloosa like THIS (notice no spots in the blanket), and that horse happens to also have Varnish Roan - well then they might develop into something like THIS when their base color goes light.
[QUOTE=Appsolute;7711967]
Appaloosa color is quite complicated - and while it is known that there are various genes that affect color - there are not tests available for all of them.
Basically, first to have any appaloosa color at all, the horse must carry one copy of the LP gene. This will cause stripped hooves, molted skin (muzzle, genitals), and white sclera (to various extents).
Horses that have the LP gene will usually display all or some of the above, and may be “varnish roan” colored.
Varnish roan acts a bit like grey, in that the horse is born dark, and develops white hairs over time. Some will “roan out” by the time they are a yearling, others will still be changing progressively lighter until late in life.
To get “spots” like a leopard appaloosa or a blanket, the horse must also have at least one copy of the PATN gene. Generally the spots caused by PATN stay put, and do not develop or fade.
My horse went under such a drastic color change, because she started life looking like a dark bay with blanket (LP + PATN), but as she grew older it became clear that she is a dark bay, with a blanket AND varnish roan.
If she did not have the PATN gene to make “spots” and a blanket, she would have most likely gone from dark bay to a color like THIS.
Its easy to see that under her spots, her base coat is like a standard varnish roan, with dark colored nose, knees, elbows, etc. Every year when she sheds, her base coat gets lighter, and leaves behind more spots (when she was little, her solid bay areas had very shadowy spots in them).
There are some appaloosas that are born leopard, or blanket etc and stay exactly the same color throughout their lives (horses without roan). There are others who are born solid, or blanket, or leopard put ALSO are varnish roan - and their base colors go light over time.
Like THIS HORSE, was probably born looking something like THIS. (same with the dam in the back ground, she is blanket + varnish).
I have had people ask “will she lose her spots?” In my experience appaloosas do not “lose their spots”. If they are born with spots, they will keep spots.
But, if you have lets say a snow cap appaloosa like THIS (notice no spots in the blanket), and that horse happens to also have Varnish Roan - well then they might develop into something like THIS when their base color goes light.[/QUOTE]
Very cool. Thank you for the info! Also - sorry for the confusion - forgot that I was using my mom’s computer last night! OOPS.
My half and half DWBXApp mare was a light dun with blanket of white and light dun spots from half way down her neck to her butt, though it stopped just before her belly. Legs were dun, hooves black with black around coronet bands.
Now, she is 6y/o, light dun with smokey brown points on her legs, like a bay would have, and all over cream with light dun leopard parts EVERYWHERE.
Mane and tail used to be black but are now a mix of dun, black and gray hairs, though primarily black.
Muzzle and around eyes are very black.
I have to add though, when she is wet. She has blackish skin with a pink skinned blanket… weird.
Is your horse WAP bred pryme thyme? (dun color is a hint).
And yes, their SKIN stays dark while the coat goes light when they have the varnish roan thing going on.
When my horse is wet - she looks like a blanket appaloosa (the color she was born) rather than a leopard which she looks like now.
[QUOTE=Appsolute;7714730]
Is your horse WAP bred pryme thyme? (dun color is a hint).
And yes, their SKIN stays dark while the coat goes light when they have the varnish roan thing going on.
When my horse is wet - she looks like a blanket appaloosa (the color she was born) rather than a leopard which she looks like now.[/QUOTE]
I don’t believe so. I have traced as far as I can and I haven’t seen any WAP lineage. Would love to learn more about the pedigree but I am not familiar with App’s.
Here is her breeding trace. (hope this works)
http://www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/pedigree.cgi?_breedcode=WC&_countrycode=CAN&_association=27&_regnumberprefix=&_regnumber=7452&_regnumbersuffix=
From what I have found the leopard comes from Pintada Dinero her Great grand sire.
Hum - sorry Pryme, I am not familiar with Canadian App pedigrees, and this one does not go very far back. In the US, a lot of sport bred Dun colored appies are from the “Wap” line.
I have a question. I have a 30 yo varnish roan who is mostly white by now but with red knees and hocks. But she also has a few black spots scattered around that are always black. Are these appaloosa type leopard spots or are they just random black spots. She has very mottled skin, and the wet skin shows lots of black spots when she’s wet. The rest of her skin is pink.
Hum - I am not sure Viney, I am surprised to hear that her skin is pink.
I think a possibility would be that once upon a time she had spots like THIS (bottom row, middle photo) (or this) and as the roan took over - only the dark spots where left behind.
Now one thing about appaloosa colors - its kinda like spelling in english, there are rules, and then there are times it just doesn’t make any sense!
The LP gene seems to interact with some colors in a very odd way. Horses will test genitally as one color, but LOOK like something very different.
For instance this horse eventually developed into THIS color!
She was genetically tested, and is black with dun - a grulla, but you would never guess by her mature coat. The best guess is that there is another modifier at play.
Mine has a few “copper pennies” bright copper colored spots - I do not know what causes these, but I know that apps can have them.
I have also seen appaloosas that have off/odd colored points. Like a bay but coppery bronze instead of black - might explain the brown lower legs yet dark spots. There is one at my barn who is bright chestnut with “bronze” points. I have a feeling he may be genetically a bay - but with some other modifier.
Let me put it this way. Her entire skin is mottled. It looks like black spots on pink, but I suppose it could be pink spots on black.
Your foal is young and could still develop characteristics and turn varnish roan down the road. Usually they develop SOME characteristic or more by the age of 2 although the roaning may start later on (sometimes as late as 10). I agree he looks pretty solid right now, but a pretty color and a beautiful head. You can either test him for LP or just wait and see!
Appsolute, I LOVE your mare. She’s stunning!!! What’s her breeding if I may ask?
And Paddy’s Mom, since you already have a Paddy, perhaps you could call this little guy Seamus. 
[QUOTE=propspony;7715563]
Appsolute, I LOVE your mare. She’s stunning!!! What’s her breeding if I may ask?[/QUOTE]
Thank you! I am pretty particular to her i purchased her when she was just 3 weeks old - never really know what you are going to get at that age, and I am quite happy with how she has developed (per personality is more colorful and fun than her color!).
Here is her pedigree http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/appsolute+chocklate
Grand daughter of Chocklate Confetti, dam is racing TB with a with a pretty decent pedigree.
