Arabians & Endurance

http://www.frankhopkins.com/endurance.html

here is a link about another mustang and why some arab people think the arab is better.but these horses have gone passed arabs that were cantering and theses horses were just trotting passed.

[QUOTE=southernhighlander;2507178]
i don’t think arabs are that good for endurance i think the appy and the mustang are better horses for endurance and the appy has carried a home and a family on it’s back and travelled 2 thousand miles in under 2 weeks.[/QUOTE]

“…and the appy has carried a home and a family on it’s back and travelled 2 thousand miles in under 2 weeks.”

Yeah. The Nez Perce Appaloosas. NOT the “spotted quarter horse appys” of today.

The only horse that rivals an endurance-type Arab is a Standardbred ex-racehorse. Those horses have some serious wind conditioning trained into them.

that is true but in a link i posted on the last page i posted on how one mustang passed a arab at a trot and the arab was cantering.also most mustangs have finished in the top ten on most rides and finish in better condition than the arab.also most of the accidents on the trails seem to be arab horses.

If one is serious about endurance, there is no better breed then the
SHAGYA ARABIAN, which has been bred for 200 years to be a perfect
“riding type”!

Their record in endurance, when one considers it is such a rare breed (about 2000 worldwide) is excellent. HUNGARES, a Shagya gelding won the
WEG 100 mile race with a time of about 7 hours. A Shagya bred mare,
GEORGAT, won the 100 mile world championship and then the European championship the same year. FAYETTE DE CAMEO, won the Tevis race
and she was 7 months in foal.

They are a hardy breed, tough as nails and have excellent temperaments. You cannot be around one and not realize how special they really are. We just need more breeders to either breed their Arabian mares to a Shagya stallion or find one they can compete with.

here in new zealand there are people that care about the arab but most endurance riders that i know and have meet say they are forgeting the arabs and going with appy’s for endurance.for me i am wanting to import a few mustangs into new zealand to breed and use for endurance riding and to show the arab breeders here what mistakes they are making.

[QUOTE=southernhighlander;2509331]
that is true but in a link i posted on the last page i posted on how one mustang passed a arab at a trot and the arab was cantering.also most mustangs have finished in the top ten on most rides and finish in better condition than the arab.also most of the accidents on the trails seem to be arab horses.[/QUOTE]

how one mustang passed a arab at a trot and the arab was cantering----

Is this supposed to make us all ooh and aah? For pity’s sake, it’s one horse. I’m afraid this is not very effective proof of any type.

also most mustangs have finished in the top ten on most rides -----
sorry, you are going to have to prove that, cause it’s not what I see.

finish in better condition than the arab-----
show me the B.C. lists and I’ll believe you.

also most of the accidents on the trails seem to be arab horses-----
THis is a very, very broad generalization gathered from a few selected reports. A fallacy in fact, and not very convincing.

Also, I can say for certain that no Appy has ever won the Tevis Cup. And quite honestly, one Mustang win out of 50 or so Tevis cups is not incredible at all.

no appy has won the teivs cup that is true but you said nothing of the haggin cup which is awarded to the best condition horse of the event and a appy has won that 1969 Walter Tibbitts Ruff Spots Banner Appaloosa G 10 .

If one is serious about endurance, there is no better breed then the
SHAGYA ARABIAN, which has been bred for 200 years to be a perfect
“riding type”!

:yes:

Our new baby horses would like to say “right on, sistah!” :smiley:

www.efduffy.blogspot.com

To be technically correct, mine is part-Shagya, and registered Hungarian Felver as well, but just an outstanding example of what these horses were bred for :smiley:

Now back to the rest of the discussion :smiley:

Libby (who never misses a chance to brag on the new babies!)

One time in ALL the years?

Honestly does it matter? If someone wants an arab-GREAT…if someone wants a mustang GREAT.

Why such a need to defend the mustangs and appy’s and shun the arabs…especially when it is quite obvious arabs does a little ‘ok’ at the sport?

The fat halter type, “Quarterloosas” are a whole different animal than the old fashioned native bred Appy horse. Unfortuantely, the former are very easy to find, and the latter are more scarce.

I think a person should happily compete on whatever they have, providing the horse is physically and mentally capable of the job. If not, then buy a suitable horse, pursue your goals, and have fun. I don’t think Arabians are the only horse that can do endurance and be successful, though certainly they are the most numerable.

Legends, myths, and outright lies

OK, southernhighlander. It’s time you stopped reading fiction and daydreaming, and came back to reality.

Frank Hopkins is what was known in the trade back in the early 1900’s as a “confidence man”. In modern times we don’t label them with flowery titles. We call them what they are – a lier, and a fraud.

Frank Hopkins was the grandfather of all scammers. He realized that he could spin a yarn out of basically thin air, and if he placed it in a far away land where few could authentic the true facts, he could get away with telling whoppers (ie: fabricated untruths) to his heart’s content. He made a career of telling fiction, and spinning it as if it were fact. People were enthralled, and paid good money to listen to his tall tales.

When the powers that be finally started looking a bit more closely at him, they realized – there was nothing to his tales but hot air As more researchers delved into his past, the more fraud they surfaced with from his theft of other people’s accomplishments, the theft of other horse’s accomplishments, and “facts” that were nothing but tall fiction.

He’s been discredited everywhere, southernhighlander, for the fake he was in person and in print. The stupid Disney corporation would never have made Hildalgo had Walt been alive, but, like Hopkins, they were out for the fast buck on a wild tale they “thought” they could wiggled past the public as being “true”. However, they did get their tail burned when they got called on it, and had to backpeddle and say they didn’t know Hopkins was a fraud. Thankfully, they are now into ficticious, hilarious, slapstick pirates …to which nobody really cares, or demands, that they portray the real item.

If you want to impress the riders in New Zealand, I would strongly suggest you find some Russian or CKM Arabians, and bring them over. The Rushcreek arabians, some of the finest in endurance history, are of CKM breeding. They are smart, intelligent, mannery, and have a long history of being among the top horses.

The mustangs won’t cut it. I don’t want to denegrate anyone that has a mustang, but… they know as well as I that “mustang” is merely a designation of a semi-feral mongrel horse. They aren’t a breed, so they don’t have a consistant type. Their lives were spent walking around the plains, eating. They aren’t used for working cattle day after day after day (Arabs, Morgans, and Connemaras are) and really don’t have any attributes that I would consider as a benefit for the extreme sport of endurance.

And, finally (and I am trying to say this in a nice way) don’t EVER point to Frank Hopkins as the source of your information when talking to any endurance rider. EVER. You’ll be laughed off the face of the planet.

Here’s a link to the results of a 160Km (Ruahine Endurance 160 CEI) ride - can you point out the appaloosa horses who were the top finishers?

http://www.nzequestrian.org.nz/Resource.aspx?ID=2335

Looking at endurance farms in NZ, they are all standing Arabian studs, most of the bloodlines are easily recognized as those used in the states as well.

It is wonderful to ride your favorite breed and enjoy their character, but it is another altogether hold out false hope that they will re-invent the wheel for distance riding.

The sheikhs who have the money to burn for these things do occasionally buy Akhal Teke or TB horses to mix in a little to see what will happen…I know they bought a few AT’s at one of the prominent stables a few years ago. But so far, I haven’t heard that those crosses are burning up the sands either.

Wish I had the resources to indulge my curiosity like that!

You will find lots of mustangs in western endurance rides. Mostly in the LD and just finishers. They are after all even cheaper than Arabs! I live near and do some counting and mustering for the local Horse Management Area - believe me, the majority of “mustangs” are just…mmmm…not thoughtfully bred animals. And any advantages of being range bred and developing with lots of movement and rough ground is usually negated by the fact that they round up the young ones and adopt them out - they come into a paddock at about 6 months old, languish all winter standing around eating hay, and then are adopted in the spring. Doesn’t build up any thicker bone from “travelling” than any well-bred youngster brought up in a pasture. Some are decent enough grade horses, but then decent grade horses are pretty easy to come by.

And Frank Hopkins! The ACTUAL Long Riders Guild was furious about the portrayal of that completely fictious campfire tale. http://www.thelongridersguild.com/hopkins.htm

wlliobeasty that is only one event.

http://www.nzequestrian.org.nz/Resource.aspx?ID=1762
sundance kid is a appy

http://www.nzequestrian.org.nz/Resource.aspx?ID=2332

here is another horse that is an appy that has won the ctr champs and i know this person and she was happy in beating arab horses and now she is bringing on a younger appy for the endurance championship for next year.

Check this:
http://www.foothill.net/tevis/

Click on “historical” which will bring up winners and best condition going back to the late 50’s. Yep, there was one mustang who won it in 1960. An Appy took best condition in 1969. Neither breed appears to be setting the endurance world on fire, I’m afraid.

Closer to you is the “Quilty”, the biggest and toughest endurance ride in Australia. From that site:

All breeds and types of horses can be used in endurance riding but the horse of choice is the Arabian. This is because the Arabian has evolved to travel long distances on very little sustenance. They have slow-twitch muscles designed for long distance work. All elite endurance horses are pure-bred or part-bred Arabians.

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/archives/2006/0602/006.shtml

And really, the Shagya is nothing more than a partbred Arabian. :winkgrin:

southernhighlander -

This is going to be the last time I post on this thread because everything you’ve spouted thus far has bordered on the ridiculous, and is so totally grounded in the realm of ignorance that I stand in awe. You’ve quoted, as fact, a source that was based on a well know and exposed fraud, and now you’re talking about a horse that “won” a competitive trail ride (!!!) as being an endurance ideal.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::sigh:

Obviously you know NOTHING about endurance, nor do you want to know. You’re clueless about this sport, babe. Totally clueless.

Good luck in your future endeavors. You’re going to need it.:rolleyes::dead:

tell me this then if the arab is so idea then why didn’t the armies use them during the first world war insteading of sending tb’s mustangs,walers plus brumbies and farm hacks answer me that.

http://203.147.158.98/military/msa.htm

here is a link of aussie brumbies and walers plus tb’s with a bit of history on the charge they did at beersheba.

also most people have forgotten that the armies used tb’s and draft horses and not arabs because they were seen as been weak.

I suggest you read about the influence of Arabian horses on nearly all other breeds, and their importance in war throughout history.

You are out to lunch.

[QUOTE=southernhighlander;2512407]
also most people have forgotten that the armies used tb’s and draft horses and not arabs because they were seen as been weak.[/QUOTE]
Purebred Arabs were often considered too small to be used as military mounts for large men carrying a lot of equipment. They also used to be fairly rare and very expensive. However, any horse who can win an endurance race such as the Tevis carrying over 200# for 100 miles can not be considered “weak”.

You sound like an ignorant breedist. Have you checked any of those websites I provided yet? Course not, you might actually learn something. Wouldn’t want that! :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=southernhighlander;2512407]
also most people have forgotten that the armies used tb’s and draft horses and not arabs because they were seen as been weak.[/QUOTE]

The United States Army, Polish Army and Russian Army all used Arabians to upgrade the rest of their stock :yes: You have no idea what you are talking about. Purpose bred international level Arabian endurance horses sell for hundreds of thousands of dollars. You can get any mustang you want here in America for $125 from the BLM. If mustangs were such supreme endurance horses as a rule people would be snatching them up at that bargain price. They are not, you have no idea what you are talking about.