ARE ALL SHOWS LIKE THIS???

[Bethe_Mounce]

<<EVERY competitor should have to work at least one recognized show. And that would not even give you a taste of what goes into putting on a horse show.>>

Maria—very good/excellent point. When I started in this particular discipline, I went to watch ALOT of shows so that when I brought my big guy out, I would know what I was getting myself into thus reducing my frustration level. Once I started competing, I also started announcing and then I really got a taste of the competitors likes and dislikes…at the ingate no one is very silent about their opinions!!!

Scheduling classes and riders is not an easy task and trying to accomodate all requests is very very difficult. But, if you want to have a show that competitors will return to time and time again, you do your best to make sure everyone is happy, from where they are stabled, to the footing (schooling and competition arenas) to the scheduling.

What we have done from time to time on the last day is those classes after lunch, we try and get those riders who have traveled the longest to go 1st within the same class and that helps immensely. Heck, we have been known to give an award to the person who has traveled the longest distance and in Texas thats not easy!!!

When I 1st started in this dressage thing, I too, wondered why the classes didn’t progress up the levels so that those who were riding say, Training, 4 and 1st, 1 would ride their Training 4 1st and then their 1st,1. It depends on entry numbers and scheduling the judges and whether or not a class is a qualifier etc…a myriad of reasons why the class schedule doesn’t follow a logical conclusion. We usually have our FEI rides in the early morning and then move on to 4th and 3rd level classes and then the rest. Intro gets fitted in where there is available time.

Now, as for training…sometimes one has to do a bit of schooling in the test. Ok ok ok…I can feel my ears burning! If you have a youngster, no matter how well he is going at home, there is always going to be that 1st test in that new arena to get through…I don’t care how much walking around and riding one has done the day before the show in that new arena, at the show, riders are different which can make horse be different…what is scarey when you are walking horse around from the ground is not necessarily what is scarey when you are on his back. I agree that all homework should have been done before coming to the show, recognized or schooling. But, you can only do the best you can on what you are sitting at that moment in that test. One can have a great warmup and a lousy test and vice versa. I like to think I have done my preparation sufficiently at home, but sometimes it doesn’t always work out that way. I just live with the results because after all, “tomorrow is another day.”

So sorry for all the rambling…I really don’t mean to offend anyone’s above comments…I totally understand what prompted the 1st post in the 1st place, best of luck at your next show------try that sending a note with your entries—show management usually can accomodate you if they know your wishes.

[system]

As a show secy/manager I can tell you why this happens. When I schedule rides the first thing I have to do is make sure that everyone riding more than one horse has adequate time between their tests to change horses. This starts the scheduling headache. Most riders at recognized shows prefer (at least that is what they tell me) that their two tests are at least 1 hour apart. Then I start plugging in times, and filling the slots around the above times. If there is more than one judge it is more tricky - obviously you can’t be in two arenas at the same time! And if one judge is an “r” and the other is “S” - the “r” judge can only judge training through second, and I like everyone to be able to ride under both judges - so that further complicates things. That is why you might be riding your first level test in the morning and training level in the afternoon. Most schooling shows around here however, only have one ring, and they schedule the classes in order from intro on up. But if you have 25 people in intro 1, and 20 in intro 2 - the training level ride will obviously be late in the day if you schedule things in order. So it is not as easy as it seems, when you acutally start doing the ride times.
Susan

[Callie]

If we were all riding machines, I agree it wouldn’t matter what order we did things in. But I have no interest in turning my horse into a machine, and since most horses can’t help but worry about new surroundings (I’m not talking about FEI horses, my horse is young) and since I am always interested in giving my horse a positive experience, I was quite interested in this topic when it came up. Our society is based upon the possibility of changing or improving things that we disagree with, not upon blindly doing what is told of us. Sportsmanship takes place at the show, and mine is just fine thanks. This is a discussion on what works best for our horses, and what is in the best interest of the sport, and I still have not heard anything that convinces me that it is better to do the hardest work first.

[system]

I have even a different opinion (and who didn’t know that!).

I never sign up for more than 2 classes at a one day show.

I ask, on my entry form, that the secretary (if possible) schedule both classes very close together). I HATE to warm up twice, and I don’t want to spend all day at a show.

If, when I get my times, the classes are too far apart, I select which test I will ride, and that’s the only test I do. So…I lose $22 bucks. So what?

I would never even enter at “A” if my warm-up wasn’t where it should be. What’s the point? You are not going to get better in the ring, and the bad experience gets you nowhere.

[Velvet]

If riding were all blue ribbons and bright lights, I would have quit long ago.
- George Morris

[system]

One thing that I have done at my show the last three years is allow competitors to hand walk their horses around the competition arena after everything is set up. This gives the horses a chance to see all of the scarey things, and markedly decreases the chance that one will shy into the arena and knock down the arena and flower pots. Funny thing is that I have found very few competitors took advantage of it, and lots complained about the judge’s stand being spooky, etc.!!!
Susan

[TropicanaP]

I know that scheduling times is not an easy thing to do for show secretaries. I really do appreciate all things you have to deal with. I would recommend though, once you get times (especially at schooling shows), if the tests are not ridden in the order preferred (easiest first) you call and explain your situation and see if there is anything they can do. There might not be, but at least if you call and ask the person doing the scheduling might be more aware of it for the next show.
I am just now starting to show my baby and before our first show my trainer warned me that I may have to ride my training 1 test before my intro tests. Luckily, I didn’t but I am sure the training test would have been much more of a disaster if I hadn’t been able to show her everything first. Our canter work can still be explosive sometimes. LOL Especially since we had to ride in a covered arena, something all new to her!

[slc2]

oh, a humerous description of what the horse was doing. i thought the TRaining level was a mistake or typo, and she was doing first and intro, because she said she was doing leg yield (when horses spook they don’t usually do it in the form of a leg yield, so i didn’t equate the two) and i was going, huh, but i did see someone do training, first, second and third at a show (of course i was saying, ‘‘huh?’’ to that too) on every day.

the order of the tests at a show isn’t the same as training a horse and doing harder things first when you are schooling at home. you take care of that in the warmup. you warm up for the given test, then you ride the test. then you do the same for the next test.

personally, i’d never show training and intro at one show, or on the same day (you DO know what day the classes are on, just not what order). i see no purpose of showing intro AND training at the same show. why would you?

let’s take a show i went to a couple years ago. i showed third level, one class a day, three days. i was dead schooled on third level and doing tempe changes and pirouettes for fourth level at home. single changes after half pass (for third level) were dead schooled, robot city. extended trot was as good as it was ever going to be, so was extended trot.

i got my best score on friday as most people do - generally the first ride is always the best. saturday about the same, sunday a little better.

you NEVER do a test you’re having trouble with at home. you always do what you can just do in your sleep.

but i’m still mystified. why would you ride 2 tests a day, and why at different levels?

you wouldn’t do this with an fei horse. you might show PSG on friday and then the next day show the more difficult test, the I-1, people do that, but you wouldn’t show two different levels on one day. an FEI horse isn’t really different from a young horse…why would you do with the young horse?

[This message has been edited by slc (edited 08-28-2000).]

[Cactuskate]

Let’s give this person a break. It sounds like you had one idea of the way your day would unfold, and it wasn’t as rosy as you had hoped. These things do happen. Perhaps you did not have a lot of guidance from either a trainer or someone that could give you a good idea of what to expect.

I hear someone with good intentions of evaluating their horse and wanting showing to be a positive experience.

So what did you learn from your outing? Maybe you could set up a mock judges stand with a Patio umbrella and your friends moving about to season your horse to the judges stand. You could then work on making as many circles as you wanted until both you and your horse relaxed. I hear a combination of show jitters and expectations on your part, combined with a young horse that needs miles.

Keep up the good work and do abit more homework. I bet the next one will be better.

[Sandy_M]

I have worked shows, as an organizer, in the secretary’s “office,” as a scribe, as a bit-checking ring steward, etc. so I know and appreciate the difficulties of staging a show. Scheduling can be difficult, particularly when you must accommodate two judges if one is an R judge and you also need an S judge. This often results in splitting levels, but often cannot be avoided.

I will, however, say that there are some show managements (and I’m thinking of one in particular that shall remain nameless), who go out of their way to make it difficult for competitors. Why, I do not know.

The very first time I entered their show, I included a polite note saying simply, that since I was coming from 2.5 hours away on the morning of the show, I would appreciate any consideration they could manage re scheduling (training level). They scheduled me for 8AM - the very first ride of the day - and 11 AM, while they scheduled someone who boarded in their own barn for 9:30 AM and 9:45 AM in the same class.

Another time they totaly split the 1st level tests - without having the judge problem mentioned above - apparently on a whim, so I was scheduled to ride at 1PM and 6PM - and they declined to provide stabling for less than $50 for the day (set up on gravel w/no bedding). I raised holy hell and managed to get a shaded dirt paddock for $10 for the day.

Another time, my instructor, the ONLY person riding Grand Prix at this two-day show, was scheduled for 10 AM on Saturday and 6PM on Sunday. There was no one else riding that level, so the 2nd class could easily have been scheduled for Sunday morning, as she had politely requested “if possible”. Because her older, about to be retired horse, was a nervous sort away from home, she asked for a porta-stall reasonably close to the heart of things (bustle kept him interested and less nervous). They put her in the stall FURTHEST from the barn and provided no bedding - though it was listed as covered in the stall fee. Fortunately, she got the qualifying score she needed in her first ride and scratched the second, going home on Saturday.

Needless to say, I rarely show at this venue any more.

Ah… and did I mention that at that first show, with me on a green 5 year old (only his 3rd show, and his first recognized show), in the fog at 8AM, they proceeded to turn out in paddocks immediately next to the show arena a pair of white Arabians who galloped bucked and squealed throughout the entire test? My horse would ignore such goings on now, but then…? I was very proud that he only reacted to all these carryings-on once, and the judge did not ding him for it, but when I mildly complained about it, I was told, “Well, we only have two turnouts for 32 horses, so we have to turn them out whenever…”. I responded that with all their acreage that certainly was evidence of poor designing/plans!

[This message has been edited by Sandy M (edited 08-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Sandy M (edited 08-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Sandy M (edited 08-30-2000).]

[Bethe_Mounce]

<<One thing that I have done at my show the last three years is allow competitors to hand walk their horses around the competition arena after everything is set up.>>

We do too…and actually the Friday before the show starts, competitors are allowed to school in the show arena. We are sorta limited to space at the show grounds…I see folks schooling late at night (we have to with Texas weather being such as it is!)

<<This gives the horses a chance to see all of the scarey things, and markedly decreases the chance that one will shy into the arena and knock down the arena and flower pots. Funny thing is that I have found very few competitors took advantage of it, and lots complained about the judge’s stand being spooky, etc.!!!>>

But of course!!! Some just don’t know they are being handed a golden opportunity. Our judges stand in the indoor arena is a table with chairs on a platform and we always get a person to pretend they are the judge and also someone to be a scribe and have them ruffle papers, scoot the chairs etc…so that all horses will realize no boogie men are sitting at that table! I will usually go over the day before and school in the afternoon and then just sorta hang out so that my horses can take in the scenery without dealing with my personality the next day! One thing at a time…so good to hear that your show is so competitor friendly!

[Chestnut]

I was at a show recently, which was not within the GMO I belong to. I was very disappointed at the way the show managment ran some things. It was a very very hot day, and we had to wait over an hour for any scores to be posted for a few of our classes. We also had a long trip home ahead of us, so of course we were anxious to get our scores. When we asked the show managers about the scores, they were nasty, and made me feel that I was a thorn in their side. I was taken aback, because this is not how things are operated in our GMO. I have volunteered at shows so I know how it can be, but we always try to make the riders experience pleasant. I gave this show 2 thumbs down because of the managment. I know this is a different situation, but it all involves show managment, secretaries, etc.

[This message has been edited by Chestnut (edited 08-28-2000).]

[Velvet]

Callie, yet again, you’ve missed the point. NONE of the test should be “hardest.” It’s just as SLC stated, you are going there with tests you have confirmed at home. You should be training a level above at home…that is what is hard. The tests at the show should be a breeze.

And, personally, I don’t think going to the show secretary and begging for a schedule change to fit your idea of training is appropriate. How can you be blind to that? I’m just stunned and amazed that people want the world to bend to their individual desures and are unwilling to fit into what is best for the group/show. (Exceptions are and should be made for scheduling issues…not training.) If you want to run things that way, please feel free to try and organize a show that works on the whim of the competitor. I’m sure in trying to please everyone you’ll end up angering more people and having them hate the show. Doing what is best for the group is a large part of sportsmanship.

The point brought up in the initial post was that she did not like the way the show was run because it seemed out of synch. I think both SLC and I have been saying that you need to realize that it is NOT how shows are setup to work. It’s not how they ever worked. Look at Gymkhanas. The kids don’t always have a set class order, so if it’s one game or the other, they warm up for it and go in the ring. They know they have either done their homework well or not and win or lose by it in the ring.

I think a good article in the Chronicle would be something about what a show is REALLY about and setting appropriate expectations. If everyone did their homework and wasn’t so bent on arguing about every little detail not being “the way they expected it” or “how they would do it” I think we could all enjoy showing a lot more. I don’t hear people complaining this much in Europe and shows run this way all the time…and will continue to do so.

If you are inexperienced, take your coach and have them show you the ropes. They should have helped you understand the system long before you even went into the ring if they knew you might want to show. If not, then they aren’t doing their job. Just follow the plan I outlined in my last reponse and you won’t have ANY major problems at a show. You and your horse will both be well prepared. It’s all about homework…

[suzy]

M Lee, you make some really good points, and I’ve done what you suggest with more seasoned competitors. If I have a very green horse and the show offers stabling, I will purposely stay even if the classes are 7 hours apart so that my horse can take in the whole horse show scene. I find that letting them watch the activity for the day from their stall along with some hand walking around the grounds really helps to calm them.

[suzy]

Ugh. I’ve only had a couple of experiences like that, but it’s really uncalled for. For those of you in Massachusetts, the NEDA show held at Stoneleigh-Burnham is extremely well organized. I put a note in w/my entry explaining that I was trailering in for the day and would really appreciate classes later in the day if at all possible. I got times of 1:00 and 2:15, which were ideal.

[system]

The other thing about scheduling is taking care of the judge. I can’t imagine anything that would cross your eyes more than watching 4 training level classes in a row. We have big training level classes, and that means that at a recognized show the judge would spend the entire morning watching training level. I asked one that was at a clinic I went to this week how she would feel about it - she groaned!
SWH

[SgTSequel]

I only go to schooling shows right now and i signed up for one and when i got my times i was kind-a upset…heres why.... I had signed up for Intro 1&2 and Training 1. OK this horse is young and inexperienced. I had to do my training test first then wait 2 hourse to do my intro test then 2 more hourse for my other intro test. I was upset that they put my training test first...this is how it ended up: we came in the ring at the training test...shyed at teh judges box, then did half circles and leg yeilded (something we havent even worked on), and then he tried to jump out of the ring. It was the worst test of my life!!! Are all shows scheduled like this?? (i don`t wanna sound like a brat-i guess i was just worried about my horse)
Heather and Sequel

[Janet]

For schooling shows, it is acceptable to include a note with your entry, indicating any scheduling preferences. The secretary may or may not be able to accomodate them, and you shouldn’t be too upset if they can’t, but sometimes they can.

I have seen schooling shows where one, say, Training 1 ride is at 8:30 AM, and the rest of the class rides between 2 and 3 PM. In that case, the 8:30 rider will get their score, but will not get their place (or be able to pick up their test) until after the rest of the class has been ridden (they need to keep the test in case of ties).

Sometimes the secretary can/will be flexible, and other times they can’t/won’t. (It geneally helps if you are known to have volunteered at other activities for that organization.)

[Velvet]

SLC,

What tests? It looked like you were saying someone was riding Training, First, Second and Third. If so, it is insane…and it must not have been recognized!

[Jair]

I totally agree with Susy that you NEED to volunteer at least once to really appreciate your horse show. I’ve been Show Manager, Show Secretary, Scorer etc. for our local recognized dressage shows - and I’ll tell you its a heck of a lot of work with little or no appreciation from the riders!!! I ride myself, so I too see both sides, but SSequal and some of the others are way off base by expecting the show committee to change things around just for them! Its not like that - you are not the only one there with a young horse, or 2 rides etc. or riding + coaching students, and while we always tried to accomodate those with multiple rides etc. - someone is always going to be disapointed with their ride times.

Someone suggested attaching a note to your entry fee, and while that may work depending on the size of the show, for the most part times are based on how many rings and which judges have to be where at what time. Its not about preferences - just scheduling. It can be a nightmare! I can assure you though that most orgainzers DO understand your complaints and try very hard to have tests in order of difficulty, but sometimes that just doesn’t work.

Besides SSequal it was only a schooling show. Isn’t it the point to go to them to learn? For both horse and rider! and it sounds like you just learned something! Shows are not always what you expect…