I call the company I work for “(company name) so white”. They like to publish via email new employees including a picture. I have been there for going on ten years and have never seen a person of color. I can only think of one employee out of a couple hundred at my location who was, in fact, a black woman.
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Are we, as guys, not allowed to believe our hard work and efforts produce successful results? I worked my ass off to compete in equitation. However, the reality, my balance and form did/do not match what judges seek. I can even remember Otis Brown once commenting on my equitation as a rather explicit activity between a monkey and football.
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No one is saying there aren’t boys who work hard. In fact, no one is saying there are even any boys who don’t. The point is that regardless, they are given preferential treatment. I would love to chalk it up to unconscious bias, but based on this article, I think it’s a lot too conscious to even give that benefit of the doubt.
It’s the whole starting line thing. You and I might train equally hard to run a race. But regardless of how hard either of us works, you get to start a few yards ahead. That doesn’t negate the work you put in; it just means I have to work that much harder to overcome the handicap.
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Of course you are.
But do you want to succeed in an equitation class because you earned it through hard work and talent? Or do you want to succeed because of your biological sex and the fact that it garnered you some bonus points you didn’t earn?
Hypothetically speaking, of course.
Do you want to get the job because of your education and experience? Or because your boss doesn’t think women should be engineers?
Do you want to get that bonus because you worked the most hours? Or because you’re not Italian or Irish?
Etc. etc.
I have every reason to think your hard work and talent earned you your accomplishments. Which is why I would expect you to be even more upset at the idea that someone else might earn them without that hard work and talent.
That’s exactly what happens when a boy gets a bonus just for being a boy.
Nobody should walk into a round with unearned points because of their biological sex. Period. Boys and girls should be rewarded for the trips they lay down.
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Of course you’re allowed to believe anything you want.
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The “boy points” obviously have larger social ramifications in the horse world, but it blows my mind, now that it’s been highlighted, that judges admit they don’t have the attention span to properly judge all the people in the class. No wonder people riding from the same barns on the same horses have an astronomical advantage. I mean, are the judges even paying attention enough to fairly judge Suzy No Name from Not North Run Farms on a horse that is Not Charisma? I guess if it’s Sammy No Name they might pay somewhat more attention, but still.
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TBH, this is why I am not a fan of coaching kids in that division. You can probably ride the hide right off of a horse, but if your “equitation” doesn’t fit a mold, you’re not going to succeed.
I knew a girl who competed in that division. She struggled with her weight early on, then developed anorexia, and died from complications of it a few years later.
I have had talks with young teenaged girls who say they would never want to do that division bc they weren’t tall leggy blondes. I always tell them that they are just great the way they are, but we also know that the tall leggy girl who lays down a beautiful trip will probably beat the shorter, stocky girl who rides just as well, just is built differently. UGH.
Sticking with my hunters, jumpers and adults doing whatever strikes their fancy
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I would really encourage you to google “the patriarchy” to learn more about the context of this discussion!
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I would say this is a MUCH larger effect than sex.
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Nothing that has been said here would negate that.
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Well, then wealth, race, access/privilege. Also intricately linked to…patriarchal systems that bestow those benefits.
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Yep. It is a multivariate system with weighted parameters. Thus, this article in my opinion is bad due to the lack of consideration of the confounding inputs that may have a greater effect than sex. As others alluded to here, what were the programs and trainers involved? What horses were used? As printed the article was an observational white paper with little rigor towards the actual cause and effect.
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Respectfully, why are you so adamant about there being no conscious or subconscious bias that benefits young men in equitation classes?
The fact that you didn’t win in your equitation classes doesn’t prove the absence of a general bias in the big eq.
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I think I’ve said this before, but please point to where the hunter ring has ever rewarded “something different.”
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It took my husband 5 mins being in the horse world to realize he got boy points.
He got more access to coaches, more mentoring, more notice in classes. Everyone knew him, everyone wanted to help him out.
I told him about this article and he said “well obviously”. It’s like the wheel of privilege. Your privilege doesn’t dimish your work. Your privilege does impact how far your work can take you, and that will likely be further then someone who puts in equal work with less privilege.
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Just to expand further:
Someone further up used the example of different starting lines. The starting line changes depending on your gender, the colour of your skin, your family, where you grew up, your financial situation, etc. Someone with fewer advantages can win the race, but they start further back and have to work harder to get that win.
I’m aware that I have more advantages than many people, and I try to be aware of biases so that, where appropriate, I can help to level the playing field and remove barriers that are within my power to remove.
Having more advantages than some others doesn’t make me a bad person. Acknowledging it doesn’t make me a bad person. Realizing that you have been awarded opportunities that others have not had is not something to be embarrassed about, if that’s what’s bothering you?
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But in the midst of all that bland, at least you got some memorable comments before departing for the eventing field!
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Oh yes.
To this day I’m afraid to show anyone that I’m good at something, including riding. The negative consequences were worse than being bad at something! It’s no wonder that girls are reluctant to stand out.
Men have no idea how protected they are.
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So far every post here has been anecdotal based on observation and not experience or data. There are simply claims of a patriarchy. Yet, many of the women I grew up competing against are on the committee of the USHJA, USEF, are trainers with large programs in big markets. A few of my trainers and mentors were women who broke into the top levels being the first to compete directly against men. We’ve spent hours discussing why fewer and fewer men wanted to do this sport.
One thing is clear, as time has progressed over these intervening 40 years, the business model of the h/j industry has moved from an amateur driven sport to a professional, wealthy female participant dominated sport governed by organizers who seek to maximize horse show profit dollars.
The concept that sex plays a significant role in the success in this sport fails to account for all of the other factors that are more likely to play in the overall access to and judges scores in equitation. The fact people call it “big eq” says it right there. It is a money driven concept and not sex. Until there is clear epidemiological evidence that shows sex has an effect of judges scores, e.g. direct comparison of score versus sex accounting for all other variables such as trainer, barn, horse, judge,… this is a specious argument.
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There is literally a judge saying she rewards sex and you don’t think there’s sufficient evidence that sex is playing a role? At least under that judge it does!
The existence of other factors like wealth do not negate the existence of sex as a factor. Even if other factors are more significant… sex shouldn’t be a factor at all.
This thread is BLOWING MY MIND!!
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