Are horses really this high?

[Malda]

@bdj

Did y’all notice how few bids some of those auction horses actually got? Check out lot number 32. 4 year old Vanner x QH gelding that sold for $95K on one bid… apparently someone really really wanted him!

I’ve noticed the odd bidding at these auctions. I wonder about it.

lol Go to :40 and watch the cart horse who passes. His expression is priceless!

Durango~~SOLD

Same people who sold “Sunset Mighty Mouse”: Buckeye Acre Farm. Horse flippers, obviously, and quite good at it. https://www.premierhorsesales.com/2021-reno-results/ They spread their horses over different auctions.

It looks like they teach all their horses to sit. I would not want a horse who did this, I could see problems with sitting at the wrong time, like sitting on an embankment. I never teach my horses to do tricks, it just seems like an unnecessary skill, and sometimes the horse does it when I don’t want it to? Hard to explain.

[Scribbler]

Oh, I love me a good trick horse. My mare can play fetch, lie down, smile, play nose soccer, hokey pokey, etc. She just wakes up and is so invested when the clicker and treats come out. She also loves to get up on the circus box, trailers and self loads, and is great on back country trails. None of this interferes with her rideability. However I have purposely avoided things like lying down with a rider up top, or rearing on command, anything I don’t want to deal with as an offered behavior.

I am not however a fan of gypsy vanners or draft or harness horses for riding. So this horse doesn’t appeal to me. I’d also rather see a horse that puts his head in the bridle willingly, if he’s so well trained. He seems a bit shut down, whether that’s a result of his training or just cob personality I don’t know.

But if they are finding a niche, good for them. I don’t consider this flipping horses. It’s training and selling to an active market at top dollar, just as if they were turning out performance horses.

[beowulf]

@Scribbler

Oh, I love me a good trick horse. My mare can play fetch, lie down, smile, play nose soccer, hokey pokey, etc. She just wakes up and is so invested when the clicker and treats come out. She also loves to get up on the circus box, trailers and self loads, and is great on back country trails. None of this interferes with her rideability. However I have purposely avoided things like lying down with a rider up top, or rearing on command, anything I don’t want to deal with as an offered behavior.

I can’t put into words how clicker training changed one of my TBs from “eh” about humans to Very Personally Invested in their presence. It’s a whole new level of communication I don’t feel most horses are exposed to in their daily handling. It’s a dialogue.

I’m with you, tricks like lying down and rearing I find unappealing. You never know when that behavior will be offered. And a smart horse will cycle through learned behaviors when you are teaching him something new - ‘Is it this? No? What about this? No? This?’.

I taught one of my TBs on stall rest a bunch of tricks to keep him occupied. He learned to stand on command, to come at a whistle, a few stretch tricks, touch a pointed-to object, and to pick up an object. I had to stop asking for him to pick up objects because he would offer it in every day scenarios and one day he thought it was a good idea to pick up my saddle. I know, my fault for keeping it near him - but he was ground-tied and didn’t move his feet to pick it up… so… there’s that.

[TheDBYC]

I had an old Percheron gelding who liked to sit on his butt like a dog. From what I know of his life prior to ending up with me it was organic & not trick taught to him by humans. But who knows? Either way, it was funny to look out in the field & see this 1500 lbs horse sitting there looking content, just taking in the scenery!

[Scribbler]

Interestingly the trick cob in the ad does not have the engaged “what are we doing now, please?” demeanor I associate with clicker training.

There are of course other ways of trick training. But I like clicker because it does teach a horse to learn.

And it makes the horse realize that humans aren’t so stupid after all. Humans are not just a bunch of irrational flapping movements, white noise, and random acts of cruelty. Humans are actually trying to communicate in their own limited and pathetic way. Most importantly humans can be trained to give treats if you figure out the right cues for your human.

Other methods of trick training don’t necessarily add this conceptual component.

[lenapesadie]

@beowulf

I can’t put into words how clicker training changed one of my TBs from “eh” about humans to Very Personally Invested in their presence. It’s a whole new level of communication I don’t feel most horses are exposed to in their daily handling. It’s a dialogue.

I raised my gelding from birth w clicker training. I don’t use it for all behavior training, but he’s been doing some clicker training regularly for 9 yrs. A dialogue is about right! It’s not always convenient lol. I haven’t taught him any tricks other than to give kisses. IMO one of the best, basic things about clicker training is teaching the horse excellent manners about treats. Plenty of horses out there would benefit from that lesson!

[bingbingbing]

@Malda

lol Go to :40 and watch the cart horse who passes. His expression is priceless!

Hahaha!!! That is hilarious!

[xeroxchick]

These sale prices make me wonder if the auction works like art auctions - with the auction getting a 50% commission. The commission might be raising the prices too.

[yaya]

According to their sale rules, commission is 8% or $1000, whichever is higher.
The commission comes from the sale price. How would that affect the bids? People bid what they want to pay, they don’t account for whatever the seller’s costs are.

If you are in person, your bid is your bid. If you bid online, by phone, or through an agent, there is an extra fee added. There is also a fee added if you pay with a credit card.

[Ruth0552]

As far as I can tell, the horse market it like the real estate market right now.

There are things for sale that are appropriately prices for the condition and market. There are also things that are priced ridiculously that need A LOT of work, and are being sold sight unseen and without proper inspections, because there isn’t that much inventory. Some of them might be someone’s ugly backyard DIY project.

Those are the ones that kill me- the barely broken youngster with marginal conformation and unknown breeding for 5K. What?

[Malda]

@Scribbler

However I have purposely avoided things like lying down with a rider up top, or rearing on command, anything I don’t want to deal with as an offered behavior.

I am not however a fan of gypsy vanners or draft or harness horses for riding. So this horse doesn’t appeal to me. I’d also rather see a horse that puts his head in the bridle willingly, if he’s so well trained. He seems a bit shut down, whether that’s a result of his training or just cob personality I don’t know.

But if they are finding a niche, good for them. I don’t consider this flipping horses. It’s training and selling to an active market at top dollar, just as if they were turning out performance horses.

“offered behavior”. That’s what I was trying to say, thank you! When I was doing carrot stretches with my mare she would start putting her head between her legs as soon as she saw the carrot in my hand (I guess this was her favorite stretch) even when I didn’t ask. A lot of people enjoy doing tricks with their horses for reasons people mentioned and that’s good, I just don’t have any interest in it mainly because I know my mare is smart and would start randomly cycling through her tricks in hopes of getting a carrot.

[Scribbler]

My mare does understand that clicker sessions ends, and that she can’t always start them at will. Her main offered behavior is just a “smile.”

But I keep a big Pilates ball in her paddock. On days shes feeling playful she will push it into the stall with her nose then stand back and look at me expectantly. I actually like that we have this whole area of negotiating and playing on the ground.

[Jarpur]

I’ve enjoyed trail riding and horse camping for decades, and have always made my own horses, several of which I bred (others bought as unbacked youngsters). All of my horses have been trail horses, in addition to whatever other specific discipline.

30 years ago, a mentor of mine and I discussed how much trail horses were undervalued – it didn’t make sense to us. It seemed as though buyers thought that a horse was relegated to being “just” a trail horse because it couldn’t do anything else, when the actuality is that the trail horse is the most broke, best-behaved horse. One that could save its rider’s life.

Personally, I only want to ride a horse that has the qualities of a good trail horse, no matter what additional equine sport I participate in (I’ve done hunters, jumpers, polo, and dressage). The other posters have enumerated the time, and effort, that goes into making up a trail horse; I also agree that one has to start with a horse of outstanding character and good common sense.

I am glad to see that the market is finally beginning to value real trail horses, even as I age and realize that my days of backing babies, riding greenies, and putting the years in may now be in the rear view mirror. It never made sense to me that a reliable, solid citizen that was fun and safe over the long haul was considered comparatively worthless.

[Scribbler]

Once upon a time at least out here in the West, most of the horses were range bred and ranch broke and if they were green in the arena and knew no particular discipline, they were still solid on trails and roads unless they had a screw loose.

These days most of the horses I see don’t get much trails or road exposure in their basic training. They get trained to jump or dressage in an arena, or they come off a TB or STB track. That said, a competent rider can usually adapt them to some level of trail riding.

Back country horse is another level up, especially if you want to highline or hobble at night.

And trail or back country with a beginner or intermediate adult with few problem solving skills who wants to get started immediately is a whole other thing.

I agree, a really solid horse like this should be worth something.

[TheDBYC]

@Jarpur

30 years ago, a mentor of mine and I discussed how much trail horses were undervalued – it didn’t make sense to us. It seemed as though buyers thought that a horse was relegated to being “just” a trail horse because it couldn’t do anything else, when the actuality is that the trail horse is the most broke, best-behaved horse. One that could save its rider’s life.

I believe most folks will undervalue it until something happens that scares the living daylights out of them. And sadly, a lot or them will just label the horse as dangerous or naughty or a human hater rather than catch on that this sh-t they’re asking is a monumental task for most horses.

As an American participating on equestrian related boards where UK-based riders are a majority, it’s striking to me how far & ew between arenas & other enclosed riding/training spaces are there. Hacking out on public roads, through towns & subdivisions is absolutely necessary. Add in the fact that even for novices horses are largely a DYI endeavor there, even for the very novice, and it’s crazy (to me at least) how many people assume a 3yo horse comes equipped with the tools to calmly navigate 55 mph traffic on what my Irish cousins refer to as a dual carriageway. I don’t blame them. If you’ve only really gone out on schooling horses or with friends whose horses are older & well-broke, it wouldn’t occur to you that level of road education is not organic.

[Bluey]

The value of a horse is in the eye of the beholder:

[SharonA1]

Well, do we think this trail horse is priced appropriately, at $40,000?

Maj Hollywoodhotshot (Lucky) - DreamHorse.com Horse ID: 2206463

[clanter]

Personally, I only want to ride a horse that has the qualities of a good trail horse, no matter what additional equine sport I participate in (I’ve done hunters, jumpers, polo, and dressage).

when we moved from Kentucky to Texas I went looking for a new trailer. Everything was step up. The sales guy commented that if the horse can not step up or down how are you going to do trails? Made sense so have had step ups for the last thirty five years (and several national champion trail horses)

[saddleup]

That does seem high to me, but if he gets that price, more power to him. He’s pretty, and if he’s as described in the ad, he’s worth a lot to the right person, especially since he’s a buckskin. Colored horses bring higher prices.

I’d think $20K, but that’s what I’m seeing around here. IF you could even find a solid, good-minded trail horse for sale.

[beowulf]

Unapologetic sidetrack – I understand the utility of step ups, but in practice came to really dislike them. I used to have a step-up Ponderosa stock trailer. I liked that trailer a lot, until the day I had to load up my three legged TB and bring him to Tufts. He couldn’t get on the trailer easily, and then when it came time to unload him, we had to sedate him to get him to come off and I could tell it really hurt him stepping down because he made a noise I’ve really only heard a horse make once or twice. After that, I decided my next trailer would be a ramp - at least when they’re hurt they can still go up and down the ramp without a big effort.