Good advice. I’m not at all surprised that halt-canter makes your horse hot and anticipatory. My TB that I bought last summer spent the winter learning that me shortening the reins at the walk doesn’t mean, “Go!” He doesn’t take off or anything but he anticipates an up transition and jigs. His free walk is pretty decent but on the aids he tended to lose regularity. We did a million transitions between medium walk and free walk, even on trail rides. He now knows that he’s supposed to just keep walking when I pick him up. We’re still working on maintaining the relaxation and length of stride on contact as he tends to get a bit stilted even when he doesn’t jig.
We even worked on this when jumping because he loves it and wants to go go go when I pick up the reins. He’s not allowed to canter or approach the fence until he’s listening and adjustable at trot.
At my last dressage lesson before the stay-at-home order, my coach commented that his walk was the best and most flat-footed she’d ever seen from him. It just required a ton of repetition, and if I attempt walk-canter transitions the walk goes to hell again and I have to start over. There’s always more to work on, even with a horse that will never make the upper levels!
Also unfortunately he is smart enough to know that in a show, an upward transition always follows the free walk so it may never be 100% in that setting.
They can all do dressage training assuming they are sound but they can’t all do competitive dressage in the ring.
Some (I’ve had one) can do nice piaffe, passage, nice walk break to settle their mind, then a bit of collected canter, pop in a change then another walk on a long rein before the steam comes out of the ears and melts them off the head… that was my TB. wonderful horse, I adored him, but no way in hell we could string more than a few challenging movements together, just too exciting for him. And imagine if I wanted to ride for a 8 instead of a safe 6. He would have climbed out of his horse suit.
My former coach (team rider) had one super fab Hungarian gelding. Could have taken on the world…but…could not get one time changes consistently ever. Tried a zillion things, with a zillion well known trainers also of olympic status, just couldn’t get his equine brain around one times. Would do a few then just bunny hop or late - you would think an easy fix because there are lots of ways…but nope. Not happening. Sound as a bell, x-rayed up the wazoo…no health issues, but brain issues. Everything else was stellar. Could do a clean line one day and the next day…nope.
And a few can go in the ring and do a decent test but you’d better not pressure them for more. That’s just horses. I can do basic maths but you could explain calculus to me for ten years and I d be no further towards doing it.
There are all kinds of reasons that horses might not mentally be able to live up to their physical potential in dressage
But doing canter to walk transitions or walking correctly after having done some canter sets is not a dressage specific thing. There isn’t any discipline that jigging is OK except maybe barrel racing
Any rail class in English or Western requires a proper flat footed walk. Even the big show jumpers come back down to a nice swinging walk on a loose rein as they exit the arena after a round. Even for a trail horse jigging on the trail is a bad thing.
So what you are dealing with is not dressage specific but a key part of just making a decent riding horse.
You can untrain the hotness. I have probably the hottest mare alive :lol: I used to think she hated dressage, but then I grew as a rider and realized she just hated my riding :lol:
The once, hot, jiggy jogging blasting around the ring mare used to score low low %50’s in our events. I took 2 years off eventing her, worked with an amazing trainer and last year, first year back to eventing we scored 66%! We have room to improve even further still.
Now, she loves her dressage. Happy and very willing to work. I had spent 5 years dreading our flat rides previoiusly. Point of the story is, with the correct riding and training, you can teach them to relax and enjoy it.
Exactly! Those Grand Prix jumpers walking out of the arena at Spruce Meadows on the buckle, with a beautiful relaxed big swinging stride are hotter horses and “more horse” than I ever expect to ride. But they know their job and are happy in it.
On the other hand you can train any old pony to jig and prance if you are a hotrodding show off 15 year old.
I’d go a step further and say that for certain horses, a rider can do their absolute best and still create a tense and unhappy horse. There’s a reason that some horses are pro rides. When an AA ends up with a horse needing a pro-level ride, they either can move that horse along (no judgment) or they have to really dig deep and invest in personal growth. I know AA riders with true pro horses. Their progress has been slow and at times painful, but the riders see this as a rider problem not a horse problem.
Lol. One of my most surreal horse show memories is of being in the middle of the pony hunter ringside madness at Upperville trying to help a couple of the barn kids get ready. Parents and kids had already frayed each other’s nerves way past the point of being able to communicate without screaming and IIRC the parents had wisely absconded for the whiskey vendor’s stand :D. In the middle of: “yes-I-have-hoof-oil-ok-I’ll-hold-Fluffy-while-you-pee-Sarah-go-help-your-sister-unbutton-her-pants-wait-here’s-$10-get-Jeff-a-water-on-the-way-back-he-looks-flushed-hand-me-the-braiding-belt-we-have-2 minutes-to-fix-Fluffy’s-forelock” , I heard someone call my name and glanced up to see a big name jumper I vaguely know from my trainer’s barn waving from atop the kind of horse that looks like it’s picture is in the dictionary under ‘potential energy’. Apparently out for a nice morning stroll, they were just gliding through the hunter side with reins on the buckle and the horse obviously untroubled by the throngs of ponies and kids and golf carts whizzing past. It was seriously impressive. And I won minor cool Mom points with the kids. “Whoaaaaaa, you know them??”
OP, I’m far from an expert but could you be tensing up slightly before asking for the canter depart from the halt?
Lots of good posts and valid points, above - OP, I will assume you have a chestnut mare?
(Not to say that all the stereotypes are true: witness Brentina and Bella Rose, et al…)
I’ve owned a couple and worked with students who had them, and they do tend to be on the sensitive side. That said, I am in agreement with the posters who said that “any sound, sane horse can do dressage, up to a certain level” if given a good foundation and properly, methodically trained by a competent rider/trainer, BUT! is every horse “mentally suited for dressage?”
I think that’s a different question.
Dressage horses who make it to the upper levels need to have a combination of two somewhat counter intuitive qualities: a real desire to go forward (“fire in the belly”), and a cooperative temperament (formerly “submission”) - in equal measure. Without a certain degree of both, it’s much more difficult to work up the levels successfully.
Obviously talented, experienced, competent dressage riders can “hot up” lazier horses, getting them more in front of the leg and responsive, and can also encourage and teach and foster submission in more reactive, tense and challenging horses - but it takes time, expertise, patience, timing, exceptional riding and a deep toolbox IF neither of these things come naturally to the horse but the rider wants to put the time in because the basic talent is there.
I’m an eventer, and at the lower levels, event horses come in all types, shapes, sizes - and of course have to multi-task since there is more required of them (though less in the dressage ring with the simple LL tests.) OTTBs are fairly common, and they can be initially challenging when it comes to “submission” - but with careful, patient, correct training they are highly competitive at all levels and can and do beat purpose bred WBs on any given Sunday. The “off breed” horses (ponies, Draft-crosses, QHs) are maybe a little less common these days (at least in my Area), but you still see many of them at the LLs; they are rewarded in the dressage ring IF they are Steady Eddies: obedient and consistent and trucking along with a reasonable degree of forward (and an accurate ride), putting their heads down and doing their jobs - that’s really all that’s required to get a decent score at the LLs. They are perfect mounts for less experienced AAs and kids because they are confidence builders, and less frustrating to ride. Pretty much ANYONE can get a good test out of horses like these (up to maybe 1st level?), and they are “easy” - so maybe more mentally suited to it? I find myself a bit jealous of their riders when my slightly fancier horses are taking exception to trucking along like good little Do-Bees!
But are we talking dressage TESTS in competition, or simply doing/schooling dressage at home (or anywhere)?
The purpose-bred WBs (becoming more commonplace at ALL levels) are often “born on the bit” and have fancier gaits, “built in” rideability and a steadier natural rhythm, more suspension, etc., and this makes dressage easier for them. It just does. (Caveat: they are NOT ALL LIKE THAT, obviously, many are difficult along with being talented.)
Mentally? If you have a naturally spooky, tense, reactive, distractable horse (of any breed or type, including WBs from dressage lines) you will likely struggle in dressage - but as a rider, it’s up to you to work the problem - horses can always be improved by training if it’s correct training.
That said, you will probably never go down centerline in competition with the same expectations and confidence as a rider whose horse has a naturally steady, forward rhythm, a non-busy brain, above average gaits, ‘born on the bit’ conformation, and a cooperative brain.
Not fair, but it is what it is.
Mares (I have them and love them) can be complicated overthinkers - yes, so are many geldings - but mares in particular can struggle with that “submission” thing. I’m putting that word in quotation marks because it has become a bit of a hot button word since we don’t want to imply “forced submission”, but instead “cooperation.”
The geldings I’ve ridden have been (in general) less apt to want to take over and anticipate in the dressage ring; the mares have been more apt to memorize these dang lower level tests, anticipate the movements and try to tune me out.
And they KNOW when they’re in the dressage ring where you can’t change the subject and must ride the pattern, damn and drat them! :lol: Yes, yes, smart and clever geldings are just as bad (must add caveats in anticipation…)
That said, patient and correct dressage training will improve all horses providing that they are sound of mind and body. ALL horses will improve when you work on rhythm, relaxation, connection, impulsion, straightness, “throughness” (or “permeability”) and there is usually no need to go all the way up the training scale to true collection. Strengthening, straightening and suppling horses tends to calm them mentally, being clear with your aids and doing a variety of exercises to improve these things helps settle the brain and give the horse a clear idea of what you want from him/her.
But are some horses not mentally suited for dressage (or LESS mentally suited for dressage than others?) Yes.
Are some horses always going to be challenging at home and in the dressage ring, more challenging than others? Yes.
Which is why we have different English disciplines.
I have a mare that can get hot and I feel sympathy for her. I come from Hunter World where the ideal mind was that of the Good Ol’ Boy and the ride we gave them was the tactful, even detached ride. That’s somewhat helpful for mine, but I think she can feel a tad abandoned a bit if I give her too much of that “impervious Buddha” ride where I continue to not change until I get some relaxation.
Any advice from someone who has intervened and made a hot horse happier and/or got her number?
Oh, yes. My mare has made me a much, much better horsewoman and I already was not bad and had the desire to be good. She has helped me up my game out of necessity… which proves to be an even better motivator than mere desire.
I can think of a kind of horse that is not suited to dressage. It’s the horse at the other end of the spectrum-- the horse who is physically dull and who doesn’t particularly want a job. I rode a grade paint horse like this back in Oregon. He was worth his weight in gold because you could leave him alone for months, then put the grandkids on him and go out for a trail ride. But this horse would not give you an ounce of performance that you did not wring out of him. If you got hard on him, mentally or physically, he was the horse who would take it until you were tired. Praise for him was nice, but not something he would go out of his way to earn. This is not to say that he was not kind; he certainly was to riders who didn’t tax him and needed his steadiness.
IMO, dressage would be a special, custom-made kind of torture for this sort of horse.
Not that my first “dressage” horse was stupid, far from it. But for whatever reason in his little Arab head, he was done with it at about first level. Whether his vision issues (melanoma in his eye) were catching up with him or he was just all done with it, I’ll never know. We had a couple of really good years when I got great instruction and had some success in the ring, and then things started happening and it pretty much fell apart.
He would love a good trail home, but I can’t trust anyone to take care of him the way he should be taken care of, so he’s a yearling babysitter and pasture pet now. Got me a rock solid sensible young’un who was really coming along before the 'rona happened, sigh. So they’re both pasture pets now!
I grew up riding arabs (in dressage) and totally got into that detached Buddha thing - forced patience. Totally zen, wait it all out.
Good thing about arabs is that they have a “joy of movement” and that can be leveraged both into relaxation and into enjoyment of dressage. Bad thing is sometimes that joy of movement comes out as snorty spooky spinny, whether they are actually spooked or not…
The reality in my case though, which I didn’t learn until much later, is that my posture was slightly too far forward in anticipation of the spooking, so even when I was “riding from behind”, I wasn’t sufficiently supporting the hind end and keeping the horse in front of my leg - especially when I started to feel them tense up in the shoulder. With my Tb, who is forward-thinking but not IMO hot, opening the hand and sending him forward works great, but the arabs were probably always thinking a few steps ahead of what they were doing, so adding something more mentally engaging may be better as a strategy for them. Forward shoulder-fore on a big circle or something. The point is to find something that lets them use the joy of movement as their reward for relaxing. It took me years after a clinician taught me this (not in these words, but the shoulder-fore on a circle for relaxation) to actually understand how to make it possible. Changing my seat was really critical to giving my horse (use as a generic term for multiple horses, actually) confidence in this exercise.
To the main topic, my tb took to jumping right away - I think of him as “task-oriented”. If he understands what you want as a singular achievable unit he gives you his all every time. He is forward and cooperative, like @Dr. Doolittle describes as ideal (it is delightful), but not built for dressage. It took a while before the dressage work started to make his body feel good, and once that started to happen, it was like a light switch turned on. Dressage suddenly became understandable to him as “tasks” with a purpose. It’s always going to be physically hard for him, but mentally, there’s a difference. Is this normal for tb’s? I just love it.
OP, canter halt canter doesn’t sound like the right exercise for your horse right now. There’s actually a lot of mental and physical pressure in that exercise for a low level horse, especially one that is naturally tense.
So many good thoughts Dr. Doolittle! Here is where we are now, huge chestnut WB mare with the mind of a TB. Very forward even now when older. Number one problem is “submission” under saddle. Unless we are working on 3rd level and up forget it she will literally look for stuff to spook at. Keep her busy with small circles, half pass, etc or else she blows right through the front door. One would consider bitting up but her tendency to go up prevents that for now so we continue to work on half halts, calming down and getting good walks after canter… until I can get training/lessons again after covid.
Definitely possible, very difficult getting a FORWARD horse in front of the leg which is why we are working on half halts and getting her to “sit” and wait for me LOL
Ahhh, yes - I had one like that (chestnut mare by Art Deco out of a TB mare, she was my Prelim event horse, now retired - I bred her and am competing her daughter.)
You have my sympathies! :lol:
Her sensitivity was coupled with spookiness and hypervigilance, which made her a very careful, athletic jumper, but dressage was, um, challenging. She is a lovely mover, but holds tension in her back and shoulders. Luckily for me she got pretty points from the judges since she is lovely, and looks like “butter wouldn’t melt in her mouth” (this was what Jim Koford said when he sat on her for the first time, I cliniced with him a lot and he was GREAT, not only a wonderful dressage trainer but a former UL eventer - and he had trained her sire to GP!; he totally “got it”), but she rarely got very good submission scores, UNLESS! we had a chance to school in a dressage ring and NOT do a test before our tests.
Two examples: one was at the AECs (American Eventing Championships), where they “funnelled” you into the competition ring by having you first warm up in a group in a larger area, then 10-15 minutes before your actual test, they had you warm up in a 20X40 dressage ring (with letters) with one or two other horses.
I was able to practice everything BUT the test movements in there: voltes in the corners, lateral work, transitions where she wasn’t expecting them (BWA HA HA!), so when we got into the competition ring she was relaxed and listening to me.
SCORE.
The other time was after I had gone to one of my favorite venues for HTs and did a schooling CT, doing a dressage test HC. (Lots of abbreviations, there: Horse Trial, Combined Test, and you know HC), and I had arranged with the organizer beforehand to be the final rider in our division so I could take a little longer and “school”, at the judge’s indulgence. I started the test and then did the opposite of what she expected me to; changed things up where I could, and basically kept her guessing. I thanked the judge profusely at the end, and our next test the following weekend was quite nice.
At home, she was spooky and distractible (gratuitously so) UNLESS I A) jumping, or B) I changed things up by working on stretching, breathing the aids, lots of serpentines with a stretchy neck and long and low (Jim always wanted me to ride her more “deep” since he said if you get the back you get the brain, but she was too clever for that most of the time), changing direction, changing the bend and flexion, deep belly breathing the whole time, S/I to S/O to H/I, doing walk/trot transitions in head to wall L/Y, poles and cavaletti to keep her attention on her feet so she couldn’t look outside the ring for things to spook at. She would “hold her back” as an evasion and would get crooked and tight. She had a nice, balanced canter but could get 4 beaty unless I moved her body around and used counterflexion, stretching, transitions in counterflexion, lengthening and shortening and spiraling in and out.
It took a shit ton of patience.
She was a hell of a jumping horse, though Alas I taught her changes for jumping (which were easy for her), and then when I had to do counter canter in a test, Fuhgettaboutit.
Oy!
She is the sweetest horse in the world, though, so lives a wonderful life of retirement in her own pasture, because she is an Alpha mare who doesn’t play well with others.
You would NEVER know this to look at her adorable face, though.
These mares are certainly special! And yes, bitting up often leads to more tension, unfortunately - even though they want to get strong and blow through you so it is so tempting, but can backfire. It’s all a balancing act.
Her daughter is nothing like her dam physically or mentally, they don’t even look like they’re related (she is a carbon copy of the sire), and I sure don’t miss the spooking and the hypervigilance (PHEW!), but I do wish she had more of mom’s sensitivity…She is on the lazy side and would prefer to be a hunter, not an eventer! BUT, like mom, she also anticipates and blows me off in the dressage ring :ambivalence: (I address this by hauling off property to a set-up dressage ring and TEE HEE! NOT practicing the test I’m going to ride the following weekend in competition; basically doing the same mind-game stuff - which helps.)
I also do a lot of Masterson Method stuff, which I didn’t do with my chestnut mare; this can really help with relaxation and letting go of tight spots and tension in the poll, neck, back, TMJ - all of which can be contributory. I also learned how to release the hyoid, which helps with jaw tension. My mare is oral, and also holds tension in her mouth and jaw like mom.
Highly recommend trying some Masterson, your mare will thank you for it! And best of luck, it’s certainly a big challenge and requires you to be a true horseman, a bodyworker, a psychotherapist, a detective, a “healer” - and maintain a sense of humor and endless patience with this type of horse.
Getting back to a relaxed walk after (exciting!) canter, yes, challenging for TB type brains (and you’ve gotten some good suggestions), but breathing slow and deep from your belly while leg yielding her in S/F position and coaxing her to reach and stretch for the outside rein can be helpful. Slowwww things down, slow your hips, breathe your legs. Walking a square can also disrupt the tendency to jig.
Too bad you don’t jump your mare, they often enjoy that more. Hang in there, my friend!
I will agree with this; a good bit of the issue (and many issues) IS being behind the leg.
I’ve always said that it’s possible for a horse to be behind the leg while blowing through the bridle (even on cross country), but it’s all about acceptance of the aids and (there’s that word again) “submission” to them; horses who seem like they’re trying to run through the aids are not allowing themselves to be “through” and responding to the rider; that’s the evasion.
Being in front of the leg implies acceptance of the leg/seat aids, it’s (obviously) not simply about being “forward”. I’ve found that once a horse relaxes into a steady rhythm and a tempo that’s comfortable for them so that they can feel balanced, they become more rideable, adjustable and permeable.
Something my trainer picked up while riding a client’s horse at one of the Rutledge Farm sessions last year and started to have us work on: At the halt, gently ask the horse to supple with the inside rein. As soon as the horse softens, send him/her forward into the space you’ve created. Maybe that could work here to lessen her anticipation because you’re asking for something not specifically related to a gait departure? And you won’t be asking for any kind of gait departure until you get a definite softening and suppling response.
I’ve really enjoyed this discussion because I love hot horses But when I say “hot” I do not mean nervous or anxious… those are training and temperament issues separate from hot. I wrote a blog about it ages ago, pasting link below.
But mainly, what hot horses need are NOT-HOT riders. They need calm riders who trust them complety…
