I think it was more that she may be embarrassed to be honest. She asked a question but did not want to hear the answers.
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Particularly this.
Perhaps the scoring “issue” is another reason why younger kids tend to gravitate towards other sports, other than the adrenaline factor.
At that age, they’re seeing such scores given to them in school. And yeah, 60% in school is “bad.” 70% isn’t great. But in dressage, it’s typically considered time to move up to the next level if you’re consistently scoring 65%+. So, obviously not bad.
If, as a coach, you haven’t explained the difference to your child students and ensured they really understand it, you have set them up for failure. USDF did not.
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Still doesn’t matter IMO
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I agree
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Schooling dressage shows are usually pretty cheap and totally fine for students.
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Ok, I read the whole thing, and it seems to me that the issue wasn’t that she wasn’t getting answers she liked, but rather that she wasn’t getting answers to the questions she was trying to ask.
It didn’t seem like she was questioning whether lesson students should participate in shows (like rated, schooling, or in-house shows - and I don’t think she said she thought beginners should attend rated shows?) or if they should even compete at all. Instead, her initial questions appeared to focus on whether the Intro A and Intro B patterns were appropriate for the skills that beginner children in our sport can realistically demonstrate.
The responses indicated that these patterns aren’t designed for that purpose, as they aim to introduce horses (and riders to a lesser extent) to the discipline. That’s where things seemed to get off track. She seemed to assume that dressage was foundational to everything we do with horses (maybe she’s not from here?), while others had differing opinions—suggesting kids should return to rail classes and Hunter under saddle classes at local shows.
So, even though she was asking if it would be beneficial for “someone in charge” to create a systematic and comprehensive test or pattern for local/schooling/in-house shows that lesson kids and their instructor can then build on to build the skills they will demonstrate at Intro A, she wasn’t likely to get an answer, since the general consensus seemed to be that kids on school horses aren’t ready for “real dressage”.
There seems to be quite a few follow up questions here: What/how should beginner riders learn? How do you attract more young riders to English disciplines? etc - but my guess is that she just gave up.
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I thought several of us answered it pretty directly. No, I don’t think USDF needs to make a beginner rider test or change the Intro tests.
I disagree and don’t see where anyone said that. They’re just as much to introduce riders as they are to introduce horses to dressage. To dressage, not to riding in general.
No, OP stated the test/patterns are fine, they’re concerned with how they’re judged.
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I’m curious if the underlying issue is the school horses in question. I have seen many serviceably sound and saintly school horses safely teach beginner children the basics of riding. The “quality” of those school horses varies wildly as does the “quality” of their training (quality as seen through the lens of dressage).
Is this a situation where children are being introduced to the facts of pay to play? I’ve certainly seen attractive schoolies that naturally make a good shape and also many that were safe as houses, far less cute and stiff as a board to one side. If we take one of each to a dressage show (schooling or otherwise) and the riders perform equally, which pair will receive better scores?
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Whatever answers she got here, they really didn’t do much to help promote dressage to a new generation of young riders.
There is definitely a discussion to be had about the role of governing orgs in evangelizing dressage and making it accessible.
Regardless of how “correct” people may be in answering, I found the tone of the thread a bit chilly and demonstrative of the gate keeping that turns off a lot of people who might be interested in dipping a toe.
Which is too bad, because in “real life”, the accomplished trainers I know are extraordinarily friendly and always enthusiastic about helping young riders across disciplines incorporate dressage, even if it’s not “proper” competitive showing.
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I don’t think anyone intended to imply that beginners should not be encouraged to dip a toe. What the majority are saying is that the OP’s students need to learn more before they’re ready to show even at Intro level.
The OP wants USDF to either change the Intro tests to accommodate her or, I don’t know, maybe add even more elementary tests so that kids who really aren’t ready to show can do so.
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I think part of our(g) answer is that there are alternatives to showing USDF shows (with all the attendant costs) for beginner riders. Whatever happened to barn shows?
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When I first started riding as a 7 year old, the very first session (and subsequent sessions) my mom signed me up for wrapped up with a small barn show. As a total n00b, I had a blast and was thrilled to win a few ribbons. Nothing wrong with that and a great place to start. A little more pressure than lessons but not a ton.
A couple weeks ago, there was a Dressage4Kids clinic that a couple of our groups kids went to and had a blast. Additionally, in addition to an abundance of schooling shows, 2025 will be the first year that dressage and western dressage classes will be offered at the county fair because there is that much local interest. Certainly possible that OP doesn’t live in an area that is supportive of kids, but it’s not the case everywhere and maybe a good time to get a group of trainers/parents to better advocate for them locally?
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The fact is that hundreds of beginner kids who can barely stay inside a dressage ring participate in the Intro tests at dressage schooling shows across the country and she is the only trainer who feels her students would have issues and the entire system needs to be changed to accommodate her particular style of instrution. While the directives aren’t for “beginners” per sea, MANY people use intro for exactly that and don’t have issues with the directives. Plenty of people told her that her students would be fine, or offered alternative show environments. I’m not sure what else needed to be said after everyone already said her students were welcome and people perhaps got a bit “chilly” after she insisted.
I am also baffled as to what kind of dressage judges she is hiring if they are cussing people out. That comment just boggles my mind.
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Let me see if I understand the OP’s objection: She wants a kid/beginner-friendly division and the walk-trottiness of the Intro level would appear to be that. But the judges’ criteria are too advanced for those riders and that’s bumming out the students whom she’d like to encourage with a fun and rewarding show experience?
My two cents:
Dressage has always been this way, in two senses. The criteria are about demonstrating the horse’s accomplishment of some bit of training… that is intended to fit into a larger scheme that ends with a Grand Prix Horse. So it is/has always been about horse training with that lofty goal in mind. “Dressage has always been this way” in the second sense that they barely care about the rider’s position and efficacy, but the criteria also assume complete competence. The imagined dressage rider baked into the criteria has already been to Grand Prix and rides well enough to make up the current horse he (yes, he) is showing.
So the OP’s students can rest assured that everyone is getting judged by these exacting, “not-about-you, it’s about the horse’s training,” criteria. FWIW, I think this is a really good, educational conversation to have with students.
What might benefit dressage (in several ways), would be more equitation classes. An Intro level equitation class would be perfect for the OP’s purposes. Lots and lots of people need to be encouraged to learn to ride as well as the uber-competent rider that the criteria assume.
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The dressage tests go beyond just the walk-trottiness aspect though - the rider must know how to steer (vaguely), do transitions (vaguely), and whoa.
If her students cannot do that, they are not ready for a dressage show. Maybe they could start out with some rail classes somewhere until the steering is more confirmed.
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Indeed.
But taking a lead from Hunter World (and veering every so slightly into a rant); When you create very low-level divisions-- in this case, one for a horse so green that he can’t be trusted to canter in public, in a ring all by himself-- you invite stuff like “woops, can’t steer, either” situations.
So if the USDF wants to take the money of people who can’t ride well enough to safely go to a horse show, then they can get what the cross-rail people at HITS shows get.
I don’t think they care.
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Maybe they could still do it, but require the arena has actual fences and a gate, so there isn’t the chance that “whoops can’t steer” leads to something worse? I don’t know.
Isn’t that what Pony Club is for ?
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Pony Club, or 4-H, depending on where you live. I’m in BF nowhere, and there are dressage divisions at our county fair. You can get a white ribbon just for entering.
I got a score in the 40s at my first dressage show but I was happy anyway because 1) it was my first show, and 2) I got a cool score sheet containing handy tips.
The OP needs to teach her students how and why to compete.
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Sure, but for dressage Pony Club uses the same tests and (in a Standard rally) licensed judges. You might get more sympathetic judging at a strictly Pony Club show, but it would do the kids a disservice, IMO for a Pony Club judge to be handing out 70+s to someone who cannot ride on contact. There’s also the issue that many Pony Club regions hold their dressage rallies in concert with a regular dressage show, so really you ARE getting the same judging.
I agree with a previous poster that I think what OP was really looking for was some kind of beginner equitation class where kids on school ponies could perhaps get themselves a pretty ribbon and a confidence boost. But I also agree with others who said the answer is for OP to hold a schooling show and just make up some classes that would suit her kids.
ETA: I should note that I’m not sure what age kids OP is teaching, but in Pony Club the minimum age for going to Championships is 10 years old, and those kids are riding on contact, handling themselves in a busy warmup (in an open field at KHP no less), and navigating their tests with minimal issues. If OP’s kids are not ready for that, they are not even really ready for a standard Pony Club rally.
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