There are posters here who are perfect for that job. There are posters here who tried to volunteer for that job. There are posters here who conduct these studies.
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Iâm trying hard not to let these gaslighting distraction tactics posts get to me, but I just canât scroll past this one.
I find it impossible to believe that someone who has a PHD does not understand the value of discussion and ideas. As a highly educated person, I donât need to explain that to you, I am sure you are aware at the importance, from ALL aspects of the sport and participants, watching, listening, reporting, taking notes, etc.
Are you really implying that if someone other than someone involved in a scientific study that meets your standards were to notice a pattern in horse falls, that you would think it was a bad idea that they brought this forward? You think someone other than TPTB keeping track of all the fatalaties and the whos the whats and the whys is not important, and that we donât need to know the details?
I am in the sport, I am supporting it, competing in it, helping it grow and sustaining it. I deserve to know if there are factors putting me more at risk than I need to be when I step out of the starting box.
I am sorry people are upset by these posts looking for answers, but I am not going to apologize for creating important discussions, year after year. I have not once said or even implied anything negative towards this incident, nor used it as a âcar wreckâ to get my kicks. It is sick you would even suggest that and users of this forum may not all love me but I can guarantee you they wonât say Iâm here to hurt anyone or cause drama as you imply.
The issue of eventing safety is important to me, my life depends on it as do many others. People can choose not to read the thread if they are hurt by the discussion, it is that simple.
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Thereâs no first-hand information here, though, and thereâs not likely to be. Even if someone witnessed the accident and was able to provide a detailed account of it, it would be extremely hurtful and tactless to publicly do so in a place where her family and friends are likely to see it. So really all the expert posters here can do is argue about semantics and speculate about what might have happened.
Iâm not saying that nothing should change in this sport or that itâs not frustrating that the USEA/USEF/FEI has not been more productive, but I am saying that if they ever do, itâs not going to happen here because an anonymous bulletin board user was corrected for using the term âfreak accidentâ when expressing their condolences.
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Just to clarify, it was the media who used that term and that was my issue with it. Portraying to the public these things are freak accidents when they are just way too common to be called that.
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Jealoushe, I respect what you are doing collecting and discussing information about fatalities in eventing. Some of the discomfort with this particular thread might be because two different subjects have been mixed: condolences and discussion about the broader safety issues. (Iâm guilty of this too, in this very thread.) Might I suggest that you consider changing the title of this thread to more clearly indicate the direction the discussion has gone? And then maybe a separate condolence thread will be started.
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My reply was to the poster who said people here arenât equipped nor have the background for such studies. Last I checked that was not the case.
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Sorry, I wasnât talking about you. I meant that if, for example, a western pleasure rider came on this thread and wanted to know details about the accident, that might be considered ârubberneckingâ. (Although of course that person might have a legitimate reason for wanting to know).
I agree with literally every single word youâve posted on this threadâŠbut I do want to note that the media actually borrowed this term from the statement given by the owner of the property upon which this accident occurred. I think this is a pretty important [and disappointing] distinction.
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I am with you on all counts. I was telling my husband last night that although many would take this in a negative way, I would like to know the details about the fence/approach. Did the horse take a bad step? Chip in or take a long spot? I think the âwhysâ can only help us all be safer.
It is heartbreaking to have lost such a talented young rider. My condolences to her family.
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I am going to agree with @frugalannie and add to it. I completely agree (and I am not an eventer, so take my thoughts as you will) that the sport needs to collect information and do every single thing in its power to make it safer for horses and humans alike. The more [accurate] information that is shared among competitors and governing bodies the better.
That said, I think it is a bit unrealistic for a parent/family member/friend to come upon a thread with their daughter/cousins/best friendâs name in it and not read it. So, I like the idea of reclassifying/renaming the thread so that any grieving family members who happen upon it are not taken aback by the commentary.
Please continue having the discussion. It is needed and warranted. I grieve for the young life cut short and the loss of a talented horse.
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Does it really matter if the horse chipped in, took a bad step or take off from a long spot? How would that information (if it could be objectively obtained ) make the sport safer? Unless you are a very accurate professional rider, how could the rider prevent the horse taking a bad step, chipping in or taking a long spot? How many of us go out and deliberately "missâ a distance? Does anyone ride a horse to a jump with the intention of chipping in, unless it is a trainer trying to gauge how a horse will tolerate the inevitable mistakes the beginner rider is going to make? If we knew the horse had a rotational fall due to the distance is that suddenly going to make us all better riders? Speaking as someone who has experienced more chips to a jump than a chocolate chip cookie, the only way I could ensure never to chip a distance is basically to never jump again. As far as a âbadâ step, how is any rider going to fix that?
Riding is a dangerous sport. Jumping increases the danger of falling, and jumping around a cross country course is statistically more dangerous than jumping in an arena. Yes, we should strive to make the sport safer through requiring better rider safety equipment and safer jumps, but the bottom line is that if you ride you are participating in a dangerous sport.
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I have not read through all these replies so I do not know if anyone from our community has posted.
How can people debate the death of a child and horse, especially so soon after our communityâs loss. The losses our community has gone through this week are horrible! Itâs terrible to get on the internet and see these debates. I have to hold back vomiting every hour thinking of the things Iâve been though this week. Nothing but prayers for our communityâs young equestrian and our horses should be spoken!
We are mourning. Our farm is a few miles away and yesterday we had a freak (truely âfreakâ) accident. A horse broke its leg in the pasture. It was horrible, he was a well known local show horse. I was the one who laid with the horse during his death. All I want to do is vomit, it has been a horrbile week for us.
please stop this thread now!! Our young people are trying to make sense if it all and are searching the internet. When they come across the debates it intensifies their pain it does not help. On behalf of our Centre Co. Equestrian community I ask that this debate be stopped while we mourn!!
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So we should stop while another rider was also killed in the UK? Should we not discuss airline safety when the 737MAX jets crashed? I mean those 350 families must feel horrible that others were actively investigating and discussing the deaths. Should the coronerâs inquest in the UK be halted to help the family heal?
What about the time when the young rider in Italy was killed? Or the girl in California? Or the man in Arizona? What about the riders who have broken their backs and are limited in their abilities now?
This is not a debate. There is no great time to have this talk. Randomly bringing it up creates disinterest.
Until the participants of the sport actually get involved and advocate for active investigation and collection of data, we will have this conversation AGAIN when the next kid is killed. It is time to stop hiding and do something to help the sport and the participants.
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Ya know if this thread was about an UL rider and an adult peopleâs reactions would be different. Fact is this kid could out ride many people posting here about how itâs in bad taste.
Itâs heartbreaking. But I want people to raise the issue. I want the studies.
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As hard as it may be, I would have found it far more disconcerting if this thread didnât exist. If that time comes, we will have surely lost our souls and our sport. I donât believe a single poster on this thread has not shed some tears.
Thoughts & prayers for those close to this young rider and her horse.
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Thank you Reed.
When my kids were in Pony Club, one of our members died in a riding accident. Were we grieving? Absolutely. Were we asking questions so that another childâs life might be saved? Most definitely.
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Continue the conversation next week. We are grieving.
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My point is we are grieving. The pain we feel is gut wrenching. Please for the love of Good have sympathy for us.
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Grief is personal.
What gives anyone the idea they should tell others how to or how not to grieve?
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I think so, yes.
I donât think so, no.
Why the different answers? Because in this case, âweâ are a bunch of people on the internet speculating with no factual basis or first-hand knowledge. We arenât able to do anything with the information. Even if we managed to collect something and discern the fact from the fiction, itâs anecdotal and we donât have data on the bigger picture. A coroner will collect information professionally and respectfully and file it in such a way that it is available in the context of broader research into events such as this. But we canât. In short, we should stop, because itâs not helping, and itâs clearly hurting.
Actually, this is a debate. If anything, itâs less than a debate, because most debates are based on facts. We donât have any facts. We donât know what level she was jumping, or what the footing was like, or what type of jump it was, or how fast they were going, or what safety equipment she was wearing or anything. And ranting about wanting that information wonât help when no one here has it or has any way of getting it.
I agree with this, wholeheartedly. But the way to do that isnât ranting on the internet in front of broken-hearted loved ones. It is writing to the organizations who can arrange this. It is funding the research that can investigate this. It is encouraging qualified people to consider this as their next topic of focus. But this thread isnât preventing kids from getting killed. Itâs just hurting the people who loved the ones that are already dead.
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